10-30-2017, 05:46 PM
Major upgrade at the position, one would think.
OT: Jimmy Garoppolo Traded to SF
10-30-2017, 06:12 PM
As a Pats fan I'm pretty confused by the move. Rumors at the time was that they had offers of a first, now people are saying it was only "second and change", but a 2016 "second and change" is worth more than a 2017 second, even if it could be 33-35 range. Maybe Brady's performance has convinced them he's sticking around for a while? But they traded Brissett too, so now the QB position is Brady and a shrug emoji?
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
As a Pats fan I'm pretty confused by the move. Rumors at the time was that they had offers of a first, now people are saying it was only "second and change", but a 2016 "second and change" is worth more than a 2017 second, even if it could be 33-35 range. Maybe Brady's performance has convinced them he's sticking around for a while? But they traded Brissett too, so now the QB position is Brady and a shrug emoji?
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
10-30-2017, 06:15 PM
(10-30-2017, 06:12 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:As a Pats fan I'm pretty confused by the move. Rumors at the time was that they had offers of a first, now people are saying it was only "second and change", but a 2016 "second and change" is worth more than a 2017 second, even if it could be 33-35 range. Maybe Brady's performance has convinced them he's sticking around for a while? But they traded Brissett too, so now the QB position is Brady and a shrug emoji?
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
Maybe the pats will sign Hogan for cheap to back Brady up. One can dream.
BC
(10-30-2017, 06:12 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:As a Pats fan I'm pretty confused by the move. Rumors at the time was that they had offers of a first, now people are saying it was only "second and change", but a 2016 "second and change" is worth more than a 2017 second, even if it could be 33-35 range. Maybe Brady's performance has convinced them he's sticking around for a while? But they traded Brissett too, so now the QB position is Brady and a shrug emoji?
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with Niners, he looked good in limited time on the Pats, but, ah, that's a bit of a different roster.
Maybe the pats will sign Hogan for cheap to back Brady up. One can dream.
BC
Supposedly when Shanahan was working for the Browns, he was asked to evaluate quarterbacks. He rated Carr first, Garoppolo second and then a big dropoff to Manziel and the rest.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
Supposedly when Shanahan was working for the Browns, he was asked to evaluate quarterbacks. He rated Carr first, Garoppolo second and then a big dropoff to Manziel and the rest.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
10-30-2017, 09:39 PM
(10-30-2017, 06:45 PM)Mick link Wrote:Supposedly when Shanahan was working for the Browns, he was asked to evaluate quarterbacks. He rated Carr first, Garoppolo second and then a big dropoff to Manziel and the rest.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Stuck in a car most of the PM listening to KNBR. Interviews with folks familiar with the Niners and the Pats. Exactly right. Brady seems to be healthy and ready to go for a few more years. Garoppolo a free agent after the season. The Pats got the best they could after they realized Brady wasn't quite dead yet. Garoppolo wants to play, now he can.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
(10-30-2017, 06:45 PM)Mick link Wrote:Supposedly when Shanahan was working for the Browns, he was asked to evaluate quarterbacks. He rated Carr first, Garoppolo second and then a big dropoff to Manziel and the rest.
Also read rumor that the Pats plan to pick up Hoyer.
Garoppolo was going to be a free agent anyway, so they got a second round pick. Patriots and 49ers didn't start talking until this morning, though contract talks with Garoppolo have been going on since the spring. They really, really wanted to keep Garoppolo, but they knew they couldn't.
The Patriots get the 49ers' original 2nd round pick, which will be the 32nd or 33rd overall pick in the draft. Supposedly, the Pats will flip that pick for a DL. The Niners retain the Saints' second round pick.
Stuck in a car most of the PM listening to KNBR. Interviews with folks familiar with the Niners and the Pats. Exactly right. Brady seems to be healthy and ready to go for a few more years. Garoppolo a free agent after the season. The Pats got the best they could after they realized Brady wasn't quite dead yet. Garoppolo wants to play, now he can.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
10-31-2017, 06:41 AM
Niners need at least two OL, a big time WR, a downfield TE, a stud RB, two or more LB"s and a pack of DB's. The strengths are at punter and......... Promise at DL, the oft injured MLB and perhaps Trent Brown. Happy with Garnett's run blocking, not happy with his pass protect but think he will get much better. Until Staley returns the QB's will be murdered.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
Niners need at least two OL, a big time WR, a downfield TE, a stud RB, two or more LB"s and a pack of DB's. The strengths are at punter and......... Promise at DL, the oft injured MLB and perhaps Trent Brown. Happy with Garnett's run blocking, not happy with his pass protect but think he will get much better. Until Staley returns the QB's will be murdered.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
10-31-2017, 07:36 AM
The 49ers are way below the salary cap so lots of $ to spend. brobdingnagian need is OL. But as Phogge points out so many holes still.
10-31-2017, 08:10 AM
(10-31-2017, 06:41 AM)Phogge link Wrote:Niners need at least two OL, a big time WR, a downfield TE, a stud RB, two or more LB"s and a pack of DB's. The strengths are at punter and......... Promise at DL, the oft injured MLB and perhaps Trent Brown. Happy with Garnett's run blocking, not happy with his pass protect but think he will get much better. Until Staley returns the QB's will be murdered.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
$50.7 million in open cap space, which increases to $115 million once you subtract contracts that are done next year. Maybe they'll get what they need between free agents and the draft.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(10-31-2017, 06:41 AM)Phogge link Wrote:Niners need at least two OL, a big time WR, a downfield TE, a stud RB, two or more LB"s and a pack of DB's. The strengths are at punter and......... Promise at DL, the oft injured MLB and perhaps Trent Brown. Happy with Garnett's run blocking, not happy with his pass protect but think he will get much better. Until Staley returns the QB's will be murdered.
Reid will almost certainly leave, Ward can't stay healthy and the CB's frankly stink. Plus the stadium builders ignored the fact that the East side stands get murdered by the sun and fans vacate to the lounges by halftime.
Overall just a disaster.
$50.7 million in open cap space, which increases to $115 million once you subtract contracts that are done next year. Maybe they'll get what they need between free agents and the draft.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
10-31-2017, 10:00 AM
The only benefit of the Santa Clara Stadium for the 'Niners is that when the sunny side at Stanford is vacant during games with early afternoon kickoffs, the argument by the College Football Talking Heads that the Stanford fan base is a bunch of pansies is undermined. Even the hearty, pro fans that root for the 'Niners can't stand the heat.
The truth is, until you actually sit through it on game day, you're not in position to criticize those who opt against baking. The other truth is that Jed & Co. should have considered this when (a) fleeing Candlestick (which has no such heat issues), and (b) building the new facility. They really should figure out some kind of canopy to protect their patrons on the sunny side.
The truth is, until you actually sit through it on game day, you're not in position to criticize those who opt against baking. The other truth is that Jed & Co. should have considered this when (a) fleeing Candlestick (which has no such heat issues), and (b) building the new facility. They really should figure out some kind of canopy to protect their patrons on the sunny side.
The only benefit of the Santa Clara Stadium for the 'Niners is that when the sunny side at Stanford is vacant during games with early afternoon kickoffs, the argument by the College Football Talking Heads that the Stanford fan base is a bunch of pansies is undermined. Even the hearty, pro fans that root for the 'Niners can't stand the heat.
The truth is, until you actually sit through it on game day, you're not in position to criticize those who opt against baking. The other truth is that Jed & Co. should have considered this when (a) fleeing Candlestick (which has no such heat issues), and (b) building the new facility. They really should figure out some kind of canopy to protect their patrons on the sunny side.
The truth is, until you actually sit through it on game day, you're not in position to criticize those who opt against baking. The other truth is that Jed & Co. should have considered this when (a) fleeing Candlestick (which has no such heat issues), and (b) building the new facility. They really should figure out some kind of canopy to protect their patrons on the sunny side.
10-31-2017, 01:55 PM
Every time I shoot the scoreboard across from my position I can't help but include a bunch of empty seats. The fans have two reasons not to be in those seats: heat and glare and the fact that the team's offense is non-existent.
10-31-2017, 06:41 PM
I didn't love this move initially for the niners. The problem is that Garoppolo is a pending free agent, and based on the talks I'm hearing, will be commanding a high-end QB level contract, but he hasn't proven a high-end QB level of play on the field. Based on that, I see the following potential outcomes.
Option 1: Garoppolo stinks it up on the niners and we don't resign him. Outcome: waste of a high second round pick, though perhaps this evaluation period let us avoid making a bigger mistake in signing him to a long term deal in the off-season
Option 2: Garoppolo is good but won't resign. Niners use franchise tag on him to keep him around. Outcome: mixed.
Option 3: Garoppolo is good and re-signs for high-end QB money. Niners ability to threaten the franchise tag keeps him in town and gives Niners negotiating leverage. Outcome: good
The big question here is if Garoppolo is better then other available options, either taking Kirk Cousins as a free agent or drafting a QB. Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
From a Patriots standpoint this is easier to understand. They held off on trading him before the season because they weren't sure about how good Brady would be this year. Now that Brady is proving to be excellent still, they need to unload him because they won't be able to resign him in the offseason. Keeping Garoppolo this long was essentially a moderately expensive insurance policy on Tom Brady this year, which given the history of 40 year old QBs, is not unreasonable.
Option 1: Garoppolo stinks it up on the niners and we don't resign him. Outcome: waste of a high second round pick, though perhaps this evaluation period let us avoid making a bigger mistake in signing him to a long term deal in the off-season
Option 2: Garoppolo is good but won't resign. Niners use franchise tag on him to keep him around. Outcome: mixed.
Option 3: Garoppolo is good and re-signs for high-end QB money. Niners ability to threaten the franchise tag keeps him in town and gives Niners negotiating leverage. Outcome: good
The big question here is if Garoppolo is better then other available options, either taking Kirk Cousins as a free agent or drafting a QB. Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
From a Patriots standpoint this is easier to understand. They held off on trading him before the season because they weren't sure about how good Brady would be this year. Now that Brady is proving to be excellent still, they need to unload him because they won't be able to resign him in the offseason. Keeping Garoppolo this long was essentially a moderately expensive insurance policy on Tom Brady this year, which given the history of 40 year old QBs, is not unreasonable.
I didn't love this move initially for the niners. The problem is that Garoppolo is a pending free agent, and based on the talks I'm hearing, will be commanding a high-end QB level contract, but he hasn't proven a high-end QB level of play on the field. Based on that, I see the following potential outcomes.
Option 1: Garoppolo stinks it up on the niners and we don't resign him. Outcome: waste of a high second round pick, though perhaps this evaluation period let us avoid making a bigger mistake in signing him to a long term deal in the off-season
Option 2: Garoppolo is good but won't resign. Niners use franchise tag on him to keep him around. Outcome: mixed.
Option 3: Garoppolo is good and re-signs for high-end QB money. Niners ability to threaten the franchise tag keeps him in town and gives Niners negotiating leverage. Outcome: good
The big question here is if Garoppolo is better then other available options, either taking Kirk Cousins as a free agent or drafting a QB. Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
From a Patriots standpoint this is easier to understand. They held off on trading him before the season because they weren't sure about how good Brady would be this year. Now that Brady is proving to be excellent still, they need to unload him because they won't be able to resign him in the offseason. Keeping Garoppolo this long was essentially a moderately expensive insurance policy on Tom Brady this year, which given the history of 40 year old QBs, is not unreasonable.
Option 1: Garoppolo stinks it up on the niners and we don't resign him. Outcome: waste of a high second round pick, though perhaps this evaluation period let us avoid making a bigger mistake in signing him to a long term deal in the off-season
Option 2: Garoppolo is good but won't resign. Niners use franchise tag on him to keep him around. Outcome: mixed.
Option 3: Garoppolo is good and re-signs for high-end QB money. Niners ability to threaten the franchise tag keeps him in town and gives Niners negotiating leverage. Outcome: good
The big question here is if Garoppolo is better then other available options, either taking Kirk Cousins as a free agent or drafting a QB. Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
From a Patriots standpoint this is easier to understand. They held off on trading him before the season because they weren't sure about how good Brady would be this year. Now that Brady is proving to be excellent still, they need to unload him because they won't be able to resign him in the offseason. Keeping Garoppolo this long was essentially a moderately expensive insurance policy on Tom Brady this year, which given the history of 40 year old QBs, is not unreasonable.
10-31-2017, 08:22 PM
Pardon the cliche, but Garoppolo is a bird in the hand now that the Niners have his rights and the possibility to use the franchise tag if needed (though it's hopefully not needed). Waiting for the bird in the bush Cousins could result in getting no one if the Niners get outbid or Washington uses the franchise tag again to keep him. And who knows right now whether Garoppolo or Cousins is better? So the trade seems like a reasonable idea to me.
Pardon the cliche, but Garoppolo is a bird in the hand now that the Niners have his rights and the possibility to use the franchise tag if needed (though it's hopefully not needed). Waiting for the bird in the bush Cousins could result in getting no one if the Niners get outbid or Washington uses the franchise tag again to keep him. And who knows right now whether Garoppolo or Cousins is better? So the trade seems like a reasonable idea to me.
11-01-2017, 11:55 AM
(10-31-2017, 06:41 PM)gocard14 link Wrote:Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
Only problem is that the market price for a proven commodity at the position is much higher; Cousins is already making 24 mm/year this year and widely expected to command the biggest contract in history if he hits the open market (due to scarcity, obviously he isn't considered the best QB in the NFL) with most estimates being in the range of 30 million/year. This past offseason Cousins turned down a contract offer from Washington that included $53 million fully guaranteed ($72 million guaranteed against injury).
(10-31-2017, 06:41 PM)gocard14 link Wrote:Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
Only problem is that the market price for a proven commodity at the position is much higher; Cousins is already making 24 mm/year this year and widely expected to command the biggest contract in history if he hits the open market (due to scarcity, obviously he isn't considered the best QB in the NFL) with most estimates being in the range of 30 million/year. This past offseason Cousins turned down a contract offer from Washington that included $53 million fully guaranteed ($72 million guaranteed against injury).
11-01-2017, 05:27 PM
(11-01-2017, 11:55 AM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=17850.msg209610#msg209610 date=1509500505]
Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
Only problem is that the market price for a proven commodity at the position is much higher; Cousins is already making 24 mm/year this year and widely expected to command the biggest contract in history if he hits the open market (due to scarcity, obviously he isn't considered the best QB in the NFL) with most estimates being in the range of 30 million/year. This past offseason Cousins turned down a contract offer from Washington that included $53 million fully guaranteed ($72 million guaranteed against injury).
[/quote]
The 49ers might hit him with a franchise player tag. The interesting thing about franchise tags is that there are actually three kinds of franchise tags:
Non-exclusive franchise tag: This is the most commonly used tag. When most people refer to the "franchise tag" it's generally the non-exclusive version to which they are discussing. It is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position over the last five years, or 120 percent of the player's previous salary, whichever is greater. The player can negotiate with other teams. The player's current team has the right to match any offer, or receive two first-round picks as compensation.
Exclusive franchise tag: A one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position for the current year, or 120 percent of the player's previous salary, whichever is greater. The player's team has all negotiating rights to the player. The bump in pay scale (current average salary versus averaging past five years of data) means only the crème de la crème get this tag (think: Drew Brees or Von Miller).
Transition tag: Think of this as the "you are pretty good, and we might want to keep you, but aren't willing to put a ring on you ourselves" tag. The transition designation is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount that is the average of the top 10 salaries at the position -- as opposed to top five. It guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player might receive from another team, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.
The average of the Top five quarterbacks is $25,038,800. The average of the Top ten is about $2 million lower, give or take. Curious to see what the 49ers will do.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(11-01-2017, 11:55 AM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=gocard14 link=topic=17850.msg209610#msg209610 date=1509500505]
Personally, I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodity, say 22 million/year for Cousins instead of 16/year for Garoppolo, but I do believe in the current Niners brain trust so will wait and see.
Only problem is that the market price for a proven commodity at the position is much higher; Cousins is already making 24 mm/year this year and widely expected to command the biggest contract in history if he hits the open market (due to scarcity, obviously he isn't considered the best QB in the NFL) with most estimates being in the range of 30 million/year. This past offseason Cousins turned down a contract offer from Washington that included $53 million fully guaranteed ($72 million guaranteed against injury).
[/quote]
The 49ers might hit him with a franchise player tag. The interesting thing about franchise tags is that there are actually three kinds of franchise tags:
Non-exclusive franchise tag: This is the most commonly used tag. When most people refer to the "franchise tag" it's generally the non-exclusive version to which they are discussing. It is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position over the last five years, or 120 percent of the player's previous salary, whichever is greater. The player can negotiate with other teams. The player's current team has the right to match any offer, or receive two first-round picks as compensation.
Exclusive franchise tag: A one-year tender offer to a player for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position for the current year, or 120 percent of the player's previous salary, whichever is greater. The player's team has all negotiating rights to the player. The bump in pay scale (current average salary versus averaging past five years of data) means only the crème de la crème get this tag (think: Drew Brees or Von Miller).
Transition tag: Think of this as the "you are pretty good, and we might want to keep you, but aren't willing to put a ring on you ourselves" tag. The transition designation is a one-year tender offer to a player for an amount that is the average of the top 10 salaries at the position -- as opposed to top five. It guarantees the original club the right of first refusal to match any offer the player might receive from another team, but no compensation if the team chooses not to match.
The average of the Top five quarterbacks is $25,038,800. The average of the Top ten is about $2 million lower, give or take. Curious to see what the 49ers will do.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
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