[lex24]

Buster has played one game. Ankle “tweak”. Color me concerned.

[lex24]

Buster has played one game. Ankle “tweak”. Color me concerned.

[Mick]

Buster has played one game. Ankle “tweak”. Color me concerned.

They're resting it for a week, playing it safe.  He's hitting .500 (1 for 2).  The other catchers are doing well except Sanchez who also has a tweak.

[Mick]

Buster has played one game. Ankle “tweak”. Color me concerned.

They're resting it for a week, playing it safe.  He's hitting .500 (1 for 2).  The other catchers are doing well except Sanchez who also has a tweak.

[Mick]

The official spring phenom is 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen.  A 12th round pick out of St. Mary's, Jensen has six hits in 11 ABs...and five of them are home runs.  Further, he has seven walks -- no one wants to pitch to him.  His OBP is .722., his OPS is 2.631.  Yikes.

He's 6'3" and 240 lbs, really only plays first base.

He had a cup of coffee for the D'Backs in 2016, hitting .194 with a .716 OPS in 31 ABs.  Three of his six hits that year were triples or home runs.  Seems to field well, 1.000 in 10 chances.

Be interesting to see if he gets the call if Belt can't recover from all the concussions, though Belt is hitting .375 this spring.

Incidentally, Duggar is second on the team with three HRs.  Slash line is .412/.474/1.000/1.474.  Playing great defense.

And Blach had his second straight strong outing.  Now striking out 1 batter per nine innings instead of last year's major league low of 4 Ks every 9 innings pitched.

[Mick]

The official spring phenom is 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen.  A 12th round pick out of St. Mary's, Jensen has six hits in 11 ABs...and five of them are home runs.  Further, he has seven walks -- no one wants to pitch to him.  His OBP is .722., his OPS is 2.631.  Yikes.

He's 6'3" and 240 lbs, really only plays first base.

He had a cup of coffee for the D'Backs in 2016, hitting .194 with a .716 OPS in 31 ABs.  Three of his six hits that year were triples or home runs.  Seems to field well, 1.000 in 10 chances.

Be interesting to see if he gets the call if Belt can't recover from all the concussions, though Belt is hitting .375 this spring.

Incidentally, Duggar is second on the team with three HRs.  Slash line is .412/.474/1.000/1.474.  Playing great defense.

And Blach had his second straight strong outing.  Now striking out 1 batter per nine innings instead of last year's major league low of 4 Ks every 9 innings pitched.

[BobK]

Son of a B I need a drink. 
Timmy signs with the Rangers

[BobK]

Son of a B I need a drink. 
Timmy signs with the Rangers

[Mick]

Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[Mick]

Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[BobK]

Bickford has had some problems. Wish him the best.

With Fox don’t you mean international bonus Mick?

[BobK]

Bickford has had some problems. Wish him the best.

With Fox don’t you mean international bonus Mick?

[qwerty49]

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.

Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[qwerty49]

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.

Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[Mick]

Bickford has had some problems. Wish him the best.

With Fox don’t you mean international bonus Mick?

Yes, I didn't word it well.  I included "int'l" in the line above.

[Mick]

Bickford has had some problems. Wish him the best.

With Fox don’t you mean international bonus Mick?

Yes, I didn't word it well.  I included "int'l" in the line above.

[Mick]

Panik hits righties and lefties about the same for average, and his OBP is virtually identical.  But he strikes out a lot less against righties and his power numbers are significantly higher against righties.

With Belt, it's no contest.  If Belt had to hit lefties for a living he'd be out of the business.  If he could only hit righties, he might be out of the game.  And he is even better against right handed starters than right handed relievers.  His OBP is .375 vs. .316 (against lefties) and he strikes out much less against righties.  his OPS is even more pronounced, .879 against righties, .713 against lefties.  Although last year, his best position in the batting order was clearly fifth.

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]

[Mick]

Panik hits righties and lefties about the same for average, and his OBP is virtually identical.  But he strikes out a lot less against righties and his power numbers are significantly higher against righties.

With Belt, it's no contest.  If Belt had to hit lefties for a living he'd be out of the business.  If he could only hit righties, he might be out of the game.  And he is even better against right handed starters than right handed relievers.  His OBP is .375 vs. .316 (against lefties) and he strikes out much less against righties.  his OPS is even more pronounced, .879 against righties, .713 against lefties.  Although last year, his best position in the batting order was clearly fifth.

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]

[lex24]

SB are so yesterday. Metrically bad.  Which is one if the reasons I don’t like metrics.  :D

But Panik is fine going first to third. So are Crawford and Belt. Cutch Pence and either Duggar or Jackson have some speed.  So they aren’t as slow as you suggest.

Belt at No 2 is not classic Bochy. In fact it’s classic analytics. The metric guys love Belt. They feel the No 2 guy should be a high OPS guy. The days of a two hitter taking pitches and hitting behind runners is gone. The metric guys have been screaming Belt should hit second for years. 

Right now it appears to be something like:

Versus righties

Panik
Belt
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
Jackson/Duggar/Blanco. Whoever wins CF.

Against lefties:

Jackson
Panik
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford

That’s a heck of a lot better than any lineup they put out last year.

Staff:

Bum
Cueto
Samardzija
Stratton
Blach

Pen

Watson
Osich (Smith won’t be ready till May or June)
Guerrin
Strickland
Dyson
Law
Melancon

I think they break with 12, because they have a couple off days early and can skip Blach or Stratton and moving one to the long man. They will add a 13th fairly quickly.

Bench

Hundley
Tomlinson
Blanco (Duggar will be up by June 1but I don’t think he will be on opening day roster)
Pablo
Williamson

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy. 

So thats my roster.  Until people start getting hurt.....

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]

[lex24]

SB are so yesterday. Metrically bad.  Which is one if the reasons I don’t like metrics.  :D

But Panik is fine going first to third. So are Crawford and Belt. Cutch Pence and either Duggar or Jackson have some speed.  So they aren’t as slow as you suggest.

Belt at No 2 is not classic Bochy. In fact it’s classic analytics. The metric guys love Belt. They feel the No 2 guy should be a high OPS guy. The days of a two hitter taking pitches and hitting behind runners is gone. The metric guys have been screaming Belt should hit second for years. 

Right now it appears to be something like:

Versus righties

Panik
Belt
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
Jackson/Duggar/Blanco. Whoever wins CF.

Against lefties:

Jackson
Panik
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford

That’s a heck of a lot better than any lineup they put out last year.

Staff:

Bum
Cueto
Samardzija
Stratton
Blach

Pen

Watson
Osich (Smith won’t be ready till May or June)
Guerrin
Strickland
Dyson
Law
Melancon

I think they break with 12, because they have a couple off days early and can skip Blach or Stratton and moving one to the long man. They will add a 13th fairly quickly.

Bench

Hundley
Tomlinson
Blanco (Duggar will be up by June 1but I don’t think he will be on opening day roster)
Pablo
Williamson

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy. 

So thats my roster.  Until people start getting hurt.....

Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]

[Phogge]

Bad trades:
- Felipe for Bob Shaw
- Cepeda for Sadecki
- Bill White for Sam Jones... although one great year for Jones
- Matty Alou, Jose Cardenal, Jose Pagan, bye bye and getting Jack Fischer, Billy Hoeft
- George Foster for Duffy
- Worst of all Gaylord for Sudden Sam

Good gets:
- Jack Sanford
- Mike McCormick II
- Ed Bailey
- Jeff Kent
- Robb Nen
- Ron Hunt
- Billy Pierce, Don Larsen for Don Lennon
- Harvey Kuenn

It’s a crapshoot.

[Phogge]

Bad trades:
- Felipe for Bob Shaw
- Cepeda for Sadecki
- Bill White for Sam Jones... although one great year for Jones
- Matty Alou, Jose Cardenal, Jose Pagan, bye bye and getting Jack Fischer, Billy Hoeft
- George Foster for Duffy
- Worst of all Gaylord for Sudden Sam

Good gets:
- Jack Sanford
- Mike McCormick II
- Ed Bailey
- Jeff Kent
- Robb Nen
- Ron Hunt
- Billy Pierce, Don Larsen for Don Lennon
- Harvey Kuenn

It’s a crapshoot.

[wallendar]

Add Jason Schmidt and Rod Beck to the list of good trades. 

[wallendar]

Add Jason Schmidt and Rod Beck to the list of good trades. 

[BobK]

But Duffy could hit the long ball 😳😀

[BobK]

But Duffy could hit the long ball 😳😀

[Mick]

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy.

Agree with you on Parker.  I'd really like to see Slater make the team, I think he could be a difference maker.  But he's not having a great spring (.222, 4 for 18) and Williamson is crushing it (.370/.370/.852/1.222).  And the OPS is not a misprint, he has zero walks in 27 ABs this spring.  But he's leading the team in RBI with 12, he has 3 HRs, 2 doubles, 1 triple.

Jensen is second on the team with 9 RBIs.  He's scored 10 runs in 15 official at bats (six hits, 5 HRs, 7 walks).  Slash line of .400 .609 1.400 2.009.

Pitchers are starting to come around.  12 of them have 0.00 ERAs, including Gearrin, Melancon, Dyson, Strickland and Osich.  Blach has started three games and has a 1.08 ERA.  My guess is he'll be the fifth starter absent arm problems, and Stratton with his 2.25 spring ERA has probably solidified a hold on the #4 spot.  Even Chris Heston -- remember his 12-11 season in 2015, with a no-hitter?  He has a 3.00 ERA in three innings.  Cueto, 3.60; Bum, 4.50; Samardzija, 8.10.

[Mick]

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy.

Agree with you on Parker.  I'd really like to see Slater make the team, I think he could be a difference maker.  But he's not having a great spring (.222, 4 for 18) and Williamson is crushing it (.370/.370/.852/1.222).  And the OPS is not a misprint, he has zero walks in 27 ABs this spring.  But he's leading the team in RBI with 12, he has 3 HRs, 2 doubles, 1 triple.

Jensen is second on the team with 9 RBIs.  He's scored 10 runs in 15 official at bats (six hits, 5 HRs, 7 walks).  Slash line of .400 .609 1.400 2.009.

Pitchers are starting to come around.  12 of them have 0.00 ERAs, including Gearrin, Melancon, Dyson, Strickland and Osich.  Blach has started three games and has a 1.08 ERA.  My guess is he'll be the fifth starter absent arm problems, and Stratton with his 2.25 spring ERA has probably solidified a hold on the #4 spot.  Even Chris Heston -- remember his 12-11 season in 2015, with a no-hitter?  He has a 3.00 ERA in three innings.  Cueto, 3.60; Bum, 4.50; Samardzija, 8.10.

[qwerty49]

Ok you’ve convinced me for now. It seems like yesterday that Wills would walk, steal second, go to third on a ground ball to the right side by Gilliam, and score on a Tommy Davis sac fly. Then Koufax or Drysdale would throw a shutout and we lose to the bad guys 1-0.

I agree that this is a far better lineup than anything we saw last year.

I think my attitude toward Belt is getting in the way of seeing things clearly. I just don’t like the guy, too many holes in his swing, fastball high and inside and curve low and inside to name just two.





.

SB are so yesterday. Metrically bad.  Which is one if the reasons I don’t like metrics.  :D

But Panik is fine going first to third. So are Crawford and Belt. Cutch Pence and either Duggar or Jackson have some speed.  So they aren’t as slow as you suggest.

Belt at No 2 is not classic Bochy. In fact it’s classic analytics. The metric guys love Belt. They feel the No 2 guy should be a high OPS guy. The days of a two hitter taking pitches and hitting behind runners is gone. The metric guys have been screaming Belt should hit second for years. 

Right now it appears to be something like:

Versus righties

Panik
Belt
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
Jackson/Duggar/Blanco. Whoever wins CF.

Against lefties:

Jackson
Panik
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford

That’s a heck of a lot better than any lineup they put out last year.

Staff:

Bum
Cueto
Samardzija
Stratton
Blach

Pen

Watson
Osich (Smith won’t be ready till May or June)
Guerrin
Strickland
Dyson
Law
Melancon

I think they break with 12, because they have a couple off days early and can skip Blach or Stratton and moving one to the long man. They will add a 13th fairly quickly.

Bench

Hundley
Tomlinson
Blanco (Duggar will be up by June 1but I don’t think he will be on opening day roster)
Pablo
Williamson

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy. 

So thats my roster.  Until people start getting hurt.....







[quote author=qwerty49 link=topic=18773.msg225548#msg225548 date=1520535931]
Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]
[/quote]

[qwerty49]

Ok you’ve convinced me for now. It seems like yesterday that Wills would walk, steal second, go to third on a ground ball to the right side by Gilliam, and score on a Tommy Davis sac fly. Then Koufax or Drysdale would throw a shutout and we lose to the bad guys 1-0.

I agree that this is a far better lineup than anything we saw last year.

I think my attitude toward Belt is getting in the way of seeing things clearly. I just don’t like the guy, too many holes in his swing, fastball high and inside and curve low and inside to name just two.





.

SB are so yesterday. Metrically bad.  Which is one if the reasons I don’t like metrics.  :D

But Panik is fine going first to third. So are Crawford and Belt. Cutch Pence and either Duggar or Jackson have some speed.  So they aren’t as slow as you suggest.

Belt at No 2 is not classic Bochy. In fact it’s classic analytics. The metric guys love Belt. They feel the No 2 guy should be a high OPS guy. The days of a two hitter taking pitches and hitting behind runners is gone. The metric guys have been screaming Belt should hit second for years. 

Right now it appears to be something like:

Versus righties

Panik
Belt
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Crawford
Pence
Jackson/Duggar/Blanco. Whoever wins CF.

Against lefties:

Jackson
Panik
Cutch
Posey
Longoria
Belt
Pence
Crawford

That’s a heck of a lot better than any lineup they put out last year.

Staff:

Bum
Cueto
Samardzija
Stratton
Blach

Pen

Watson
Osich (Smith won’t be ready till May or June)
Guerrin
Strickland
Dyson
Law
Melancon

I think they break with 12, because they have a couple off days early and can skip Blach or Stratton and moving one to the long man. They will add a 13th fairly quickly.

Bench

Hundley
Tomlinson
Blanco (Duggar will be up by June 1but I don’t think he will be on opening day roster)
Pablo
Williamson

Williamson is my reach. But he’s changed his stroke and is raking. He is a guy that played his way off the radar. But they have liked him. Having both Pablo and Mac on the bench gives you both a righty and lefty that are capable of hitting a late inning HR. Slater has options. Parker doesn’t. But I think the Giants have seen enough of him. He’s a AAAA Guy. 

So thats my roster.  Until people start getting hurt.....







[quote author=qwerty49 link=topic=18773.msg225548#msg225548 date=1520535931]
Sigh. Where to start on this one. You’re absolutely right that Panik is an ideal #2 guy. This lineup had better rediscover some power. because it’s gonna take 3 hits to score a run otherwise. I put the over-under of total SB this year by this parade of elephants to be around 10, and most of those will be from whoever plays CF. Bochy’s got himself another Earl Weaver lineup — 3-run HR or nothing.

Belt at #2 just because he’s a lefty? That’s classic Bochy. If we want someone to hit to right, send Buster up there. Stick Belt in between two righties where he’ll be more effective.

I got a feeling we’re in for a lot of 7-6 and 8-7 games this year. Let’s hope for the best.




[quote author=Mick link=topic=18773.msg225530#msg225530 date=1520517218]
Bochy said yesterday that the Giants batting lineup against right handers would start Panik at leadoff, then Belt.  At leadoff last year, Panik hit .295 with a .354 OBP.  Panik was also the NL's toughest batter to strike out both of the last two years (which makes him the ideal #2 hitter, IMHO).

3-4-5 will be some combination of Posey, McCutchen and Longoria.  Pence, Crawford and the yet-to-be-named center fielder will complete the lineup.

Melancon had a 1-2-3 inning, first time back.  He has discomfort, but doesn't know if it's regular spring training discomfort or operation-gone-wrong discomfort.

From yesteryear, the performance of the Giants' traded-away high draft picks:

- Arroyo is batting .413 this spring, which compares to the .412 he batted during all of the Giants' spring training sessions (MLB career .192 BA)
- Phil Bickford, the top 2015 pick, has never progressed beyond A ball and has a career 8-8 record in the minors with a 2.71 ERA in 37 starts.  Not in the major league camp, 22 years old.
- 2016 2nd round pick Bryan Reynolds has hit between .312 and .317 between rookie and A ball the last two years.  He is 0 for 11 in spring training this year.
- 20 year old Lucius Fox, recipient of the largest signing bonus in SF Giants intl' history, has hit .242 the past two seasons in the low minors with 5 HRs in 702 ABs.  Improved from .207 to .266 from 2016 to 2017.

So that's what we're missing.

BTW, I realize that it's just spring training, but 29 year old career minor leaguer Kyle Jensen has five home runs (out of six hits) in 11 ABs this spring.  That makes him #2 in the majors after the Indians' second baseman Kipnis (who has six HRs in 20 ABs).  Everyone else in the top nine has more ABs than Jensen.

-

[/quote]
[/quote]

[BobK]

The pitch to Belt, strike 3 call.  He disagrees.    Again and again

[BobK]

The pitch to Belt, strike 3 call.  He disagrees.    Again and again

[Mick]

Ok you’ve convinced me for now. It seems like yesterday that Wills would walk, steal second, go to third on a ground ball to the right side by Gilliam, and score on a Tommy Davis sac fly. Then Koufax or Drysdale would throw a shutout and we lose to the bad guys 1-0.

Oddly enough, that never actually happened.  The San Francisco Giants never lost a 1-0 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers when either Koufax or Drysdale was pitching during the 12 seasons that at least one pitcher was on the Dodgers pitching staff (1958 to 1969).  The LA Dodgers, however, lost three games by a 1-0 score over the Giants in that time frame, and McCormick was the WP two of the three times:

1) Koufax lost to McCormick:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...9030.shtml

2) Drysdale lost to Herbel with O'Dell in relief:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6280.shtml

3) McCormick beat Claude "The White Rat" Osteen:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...7090.shtml

The only game in which the San Francisco Giants lost 1-0 to the Los Angeles Dodgers during the careers of Koufax and Drysdale, the winning Dodgers pitcher was Roger Craig, who beat Sam Jones 1-0 on 7/21/59.  Incidentally, Craig had a 49-38 record with the Dodgers at the start of his career, then went to the Mets in 1962 and nosedived.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN195907210.shtml 

Obviously, Koufax and Drysdale had some close victories over the Giants.  Drysdale, in particular won seven games by a 2-1 score (including one over Marichal) and Koufax beat O'Dell 2-0 and Shaw 2-1 in that time span, but Koufax had no other victories in which he beat the SF Giants by a 2-0 or 2-1 score. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...5220.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...4200.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...7080.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...5100.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...4290.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6160.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6250.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6260.shtml

Incidentally, during those 12 seasons, the teams were very evenly matched, with the Giants winning 120 games and the Dodgers winning 115.  Four of the season series ended in ties (1958, 1963, 1966 and 1968), the Dodgers won three series (14-8 in 1959, 10-8 in 1965 and 12-6 in 1967), and the Giants won five season series (1960 and 1961 were 12-10, 1962 was 11-10, 1964 was 12-6 and 1969 was the most lopsided at 13 wins for the Giants and five for the Dodgers).

Then came the 1970s and the Giants lost Cepeda, Mays, McCovey, Jim Ray Hart, McCormick, Perry, Marichal, Dietz and Bobby Bonds to be replaced by nothing and no one.  At least they got rid of Foster, Kingman, Bonds, Henderson and Speier.  The Dodgers replaced their 1960s stars with Sutton, Garvey, Cey, Russell, Buckner, Ferguson, Messersmith, Yeager, Dusty Baker, Reggie Smith, Rick Monday, Mike Marshall and Tommy John. And won pennants in 74, 77, 78 and 91.  Ugh.

The Giants would have to wait from 1962 to 1989 and Ron Fairly's only memorable line "27 years of waiting have come to an end..."

[Mick]

Ok you’ve convinced me for now. It seems like yesterday that Wills would walk, steal second, go to third on a ground ball to the right side by Gilliam, and score on a Tommy Davis sac fly. Then Koufax or Drysdale would throw a shutout and we lose to the bad guys 1-0.

Oddly enough, that never actually happened.  The San Francisco Giants never lost a 1-0 game against the Los Angeles Dodgers when either Koufax or Drysdale was pitching during the 12 seasons that at least one pitcher was on the Dodgers pitching staff (1958 to 1969).  The LA Dodgers, however, lost three games by a 1-0 score over the Giants in that time frame, and McCormick was the WP two of the three times:

1) Koufax lost to McCormick:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...9030.shtml

2) Drysdale lost to Herbel with O'Dell in relief:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6280.shtml

3) McCormick beat Claude "The White Rat" Osteen:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...7090.shtml

The only game in which the San Francisco Giants lost 1-0 to the Los Angeles Dodgers during the careers of Koufax and Drysdale, the winning Dodgers pitcher was Roger Craig, who beat Sam Jones 1-0 on 7/21/59.  Incidentally, Craig had a 49-38 record with the Dodgers at the start of his career, then went to the Mets in 1962 and nosedived.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN195907210.shtml 

Obviously, Koufax and Drysdale had some close victories over the Giants.  Drysdale, in particular won seven games by a 2-1 score (including one over Marichal) and Koufax beat O'Dell 2-0 and Shaw 2-1 in that time span, but Koufax had no other victories in which he beat the SF Giants by a 2-0 or 2-1 score. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...5220.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...4200.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...7080.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...5100.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...4290.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6160.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6250.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes...6260.shtml

Incidentally, during those 12 seasons, the teams were very evenly matched, with the Giants winning 120 games and the Dodgers winning 115.  Four of the season series ended in ties (1958, 1963, 1966 and 1968), the Dodgers won three series (14-8 in 1959, 10-8 in 1965 and 12-6 in 1967), and the Giants won five season series (1960 and 1961 were 12-10, 1962 was 11-10, 1964 was 12-6 and 1969 was the most lopsided at 13 wins for the Giants and five for the Dodgers).

Then came the 1970s and the Giants lost Cepeda, Mays, McCovey, Jim Ray Hart, McCormick, Perry, Marichal, Dietz and Bobby Bonds to be replaced by nothing and no one.  At least they got rid of Foster, Kingman, Bonds, Henderson and Speier.  The Dodgers replaced their 1960s stars with Sutton, Garvey, Cey, Russell, Buckner, Ferguson, Messersmith, Yeager, Dusty Baker, Reggie Smith, Rick Monday, Mike Marshall and Tommy John. And won pennants in 74, 77, 78 and 91.  Ugh.

The Giants would have to wait from 1962 to 1989 and Ron Fairly's only memorable line "27 years of waiting have come to an end..."

[wallendar]

Good stuff, Mick...

My first Giants game occurred in 1958 when I saw LA beat SF 4-1 behind Don Drysdale.

If memory serves, McCovey owned Drysdale but SF really struggled v. Koufax.  It always seemed as though Marichal was matched against the great Dodger lefty and he just couldn’t beat them.  Of course, my memory could be faulty.... 

[wallendar]

Good stuff, Mick...

My first Giants game occurred in 1958 when I saw LA beat SF 4-1 behind Don Drysdale.

If memory serves, McCovey owned Drysdale but SF really struggled v. Koufax.  It always seemed as though Marichal was matched against the great Dodger lefty and he just couldn’t beat them.  Of course, my memory could be faulty.... 

[BobK]

My first game also 58 and we seem to remember the same history 

[BobK]

My first game also 58 and we seem to remember the same history 

[wallendar]

We remembered well, Bob...

Take a look —


http://jay.typepad.com/william_jay/2007/...of_ow.html

[wallendar]

We remembered well, Bob...

Take a look —


http://jay.typepad.com/william_jay/2007/...of_ow.html