[Mick]

I know the UC's do a baseline cut, but I also know that there are all kinds of 4.2 students.  Lots of things can knock you out of the running, from disciplinary issues, to too few extracurriculars, to too many extracurriculars with too little leadership, to a high school with a less than stellar reputation.

[Mick]

I know the UC's do a baseline cut, but I also know that there are all kinds of 4.2 students.  Lots of things can knock you out of the running, from disciplinary issues, to too few extracurriculars, to too many extracurriculars with too little leadership, to a high school with a less than stellar reputation.

[81alum]

A problem with some of the data cited in this thread is that it is aggregate across all majors. In the UC system it makes a big difference if you are applying to the arts--and even within the arts, some degree programs require auditions/portfolios while some don't--engineering (very impacted); certain social science majors like Communications at UCLA (very impacted), or the ever-popular undeclared. While there is a centralized undergraduate office of admissions that makes most of the decisions, many admissions decisions are made by a number of units across campus, depending on the major to which the student applies.

This is one reason my daughter turned down her admission to Berkeley--she did not like the way that a student was trapped into a college from which it would be difficult to change.  You don't apply to UC Berkeley, you apply to either the College of Engineering, a College of Chemistry, a College of Environmental Design, a College of Natural Resources, and the good old generic college of Letters and Science.  If you start off in Letters and Science and decide you want to be an Engineer or a Chemistry major--good luck.  I actually think most students should NOT know their college major at the time they apply--one of the purposes of college ought to be to challenge students in their first year or two to find their greatest aptitude.  So for those kids who don't have a clear pathway plotted out at age 17, UC and CSU are becoming poorer choices than they once were.

[81alum]

A problem with some of the data cited in this thread is that it is aggregate across all majors. In the UC system it makes a big difference if you are applying to the arts--and even within the arts, some degree programs require auditions/portfolios while some don't--engineering (very impacted); certain social science majors like Communications at UCLA (very impacted), or the ever-popular undeclared. While there is a centralized undergraduate office of admissions that makes most of the decisions, many admissions decisions are made by a number of units across campus, depending on the major to which the student applies.

This is one reason my daughter turned down her admission to Berkeley--she did not like the way that a student was trapped into a college from which it would be difficult to change.  You don't apply to UC Berkeley, you apply to either the College of Engineering, a College of Chemistry, a College of Environmental Design, a College of Natural Resources, and the good old generic college of Letters and Science.  If you start off in Letters and Science and decide you want to be an Engineer or a Chemistry major--good luck.  I actually think most students should NOT know their college major at the time they apply--one of the purposes of college ought to be to challenge students in their first year or two to find their greatest aptitude.  So for those kids who don't have a clear pathway plotted out at age 17, UC and CSU are becoming poorer choices than they once were.

[Snorlax94]

Oddly, the article did not bring up the different bars for in-state and out-of-state applicants.

When Yvonne initially brought up the thread, I assumed her example was entitely about in-state students.

I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students and figured that could also contribute to discrepencies like why someone might be admitted to the US Nacal Academy and not to Berkeley (though there are other potential reasons).

I think there are many other considerations for the David Hogg case (for one, timing — he may be an exceptional candidate years from now if he applies to grad school), but I would not be surprised at all if a 1270/4.2 out-of-state student was rejected by UCLA, UCSD and UCSB.

I grew up in the midwest. There is a whole country out there with negative 20 winters, hail, flooding, nasty insects, and no beaches, competing for those scant out-of-state southern California spots, and I’d expect the UCs to use those limited slots (under pressure from taxpayers) to get superstar students (or, athletes who don’t pay for their sunglasses).😎

[Snorlax94]

Oddly, the article did not bring up the different bars for in-state and out-of-state applicants.

When Yvonne initially brought up the thread, I assumed her example was entitely about in-state students.

I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students and figured that could also contribute to discrepencies like why someone might be admitted to the US Nacal Academy and not to Berkeley (though there are other potential reasons).

I think there are many other considerations for the David Hogg case (for one, timing — he may be an exceptional candidate years from now if he applies to grad school), but I would not be surprised at all if a 1270/4.2 out-of-state student was rejected by UCLA, UCSD and UCSB.

I grew up in the midwest. There is a whole country out there with negative 20 winters, hail, flooding, nasty insects, and no beaches, competing for those scant out-of-state southern California spots, and I’d expect the UCs to use those limited slots (under pressure from taxpayers) to get superstar students (or, athletes who don’t pay for their sunglasses).😎

[Papa John]

From my experiences, some out-of-state applicants are rejected by UC schools because they don't meet the minimum "a-g" subject requirements:

http://admission.universityofcalifornia....index.html

So perhaps an applicant wants to major in the arts or humanities but does not complete the following:

"Laboratory science 2 courses
(from two disciplines: biology, chemistry and/or physics; or one biology, chemistry or physics and one interdisciplinary or integrated or earth and space sciences course)"

And a business whiz who does not have facility or interest in the arts might have difficulty completing the following:

" Visual and performing arts
(one yearlong course from the following disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music, visual art or interdisciplinary arts; or two one-semester courses from the same discipline)"

It doesn't matter how great your GPA and test scores are. If you don't meet the subject requirement, you don't get into the UC system (with a handful of exceptions).

[Papa John]

From my experiences, some out-of-state applicants are rejected by UC schools because they don't meet the minimum "a-g" subject requirements:

http://admission.universityofcalifornia....index.html

So perhaps an applicant wants to major in the arts or humanities but does not complete the following:

"Laboratory science 2 courses
(from two disciplines: biology, chemistry and/or physics; or one biology, chemistry or physics and one interdisciplinary or integrated or earth and space sciences course)"

And a business whiz who does not have facility or interest in the arts might have difficulty completing the following:

" Visual and performing arts
(one yearlong course from the following disciplines: dance, drama/theater, music, visual art or interdisciplinary arts; or two one-semester courses from the same discipline)"

It doesn't matter how great your GPA and test scores are. If you don't meet the subject requirement, you don't get into the UC system (with a handful of exceptions).

[oldalum]

I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students

Actually, it isn't clear. UC admission rates vary greatly by campus, but are generally higher for out-of-state applicants than for in-state applicants, which is a source of frustration for California residents and recently led to a cap on non-resident admissions. Non-resident students bring diversity and higher tuition payments. But they enroll at lower rates, so their proportions of the student bodies--although still high--are much lower than their admit rates. But it is not clear whether it is "harder" to get in from out of state (i.e., whether the exact same applicant has a better or worse chance of being admitted from a zip code in-state versus out) because the two applicant pools may differ somewhat.

From 2017 UC admissions data:

For Cal, the 22% admit rate for out of state applicants exceeded the resident admit rate of 20%. (int'l admit rate was 9%, overall was 18%) But for Davis the admit rate for out-of-state was twice that of in-state (72 vs. 36%). https://www.ucop.edu/institutional-resea...table2.pdf

[oldalum]

I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students

Actually, it isn't clear. UC admission rates vary greatly by campus, but are generally higher for out-of-state applicants than for in-state applicants, which is a source of frustration for California residents and recently led to a cap on non-resident admissions. Non-resident students bring diversity and higher tuition payments. But they enroll at lower rates, so their proportions of the student bodies--although still high--are much lower than their admit rates. But it is not clear whether it is "harder" to get in from out of state (i.e., whether the exact same applicant has a better or worse chance of being admitted from a zip code in-state versus out) because the two applicant pools may differ somewhat.

From 2017 UC admissions data:

For Cal, the 22% admit rate for out of state applicants exceeded the resident admit rate of 20%. (int'l admit rate was 9%, overall was 18%) But for Davis the admit rate for out-of-state was twice that of in-state (72 vs. 36%). https://www.ucop.edu/institutional-resea...table2.pdf

[Mick]

[quote author=Snorlax94 link=topic=18924.msg226999#msg226999 date=1522453762]
I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students

Actually, it isn't clear. UC admission rates vary greatly by campus, but are generally higher for out-of-state applicants than for in-state applicants, which is a source of frustration for California residents and recently led to a cap on non-resident admissions. Non-resident students bring diversity and higher tuition payments. But they enroll at lower rates, so their proportions of the student bodies--although still high--are much lower than their admit rates. But it is not clear whether it is "harder" to get in from out of state (i.e., whether the exact same applicant has a better or worse chance of being admitted from a zip code in-state versus out) because the two applicant pools may differ somewhat.

From 2017 UC admissions data:

For ןɐɔ, the 22% admit rate for out of state applicants exceeded the resident admit rate of 20%. (int'l admit rate was 9%, overall was 18%) But for Davis the admit rate for out-of-state was twice that of in-state (72 vs. 36%). https://www.ucop.edu/institutional-resea...table2.pdf
[/quote]

Interesting UC Admissions statistics

In State vs. Out of State
UC regents capped future out of state admits to the UCLA, Berkeley, San Diego and Irvine campuses to that of the 2017/2018 levels of 18.9% to 24.4%.

By ethnicity
Among ethnic and racial categories, the share of white students among the freshmen accepted pool continued to drop. 

Whites, 23.8% (compared to 25.1% last year)
Asian Americans, 34.2%
Latinos 33.2%
African Americans 5.0%

By campus
For would-be freshmen from California:

UCLA, 14.6%
Berkeley, 19.7%
San Diego, 31.3%
Santa Barbara, 31.7%
Irvine, 33.4%
Davis, 35.9%
Santa Cruz, 45.1%
Riverside, 57.2%
Merced, 74.3%

In-State vs. Out-of-state vs. International
62.6% of the record high 111,856 California freshmen applicants were accepted (down from 67.5% last year).
International students, 67.2% (up from 63.2% percent last year)
Americans from other states (54.1%, up from 50.9% last year)

[Mick]

[quote author=Snorlax94 link=topic=18924.msg226999#msg226999 date=1522453762]
I would expect that the bar is much, much higher for out-of-state students

Actually, it isn't clear. UC admission rates vary greatly by campus, but are generally higher for out-of-state applicants than for in-state applicants, which is a source of frustration for California residents and recently led to a cap on non-resident admissions. Non-resident students bring diversity and higher tuition payments. But they enroll at lower rates, so their proportions of the student bodies--although still high--are much lower than their admit rates. But it is not clear whether it is "harder" to get in from out of state (i.e., whether the exact same applicant has a better or worse chance of being admitted from a zip code in-state versus out) because the two applicant pools may differ somewhat.

From 2017 UC admissions data:

For ןɐɔ, the 22% admit rate for out of state applicants exceeded the resident admit rate of 20%. (int'l admit rate was 9%, overall was 18%) But for Davis the admit rate for out-of-state was twice that of in-state (72 vs. 36%). https://www.ucop.edu/institutional-resea...table2.pdf
[/quote]

Interesting UC Admissions statistics

In State vs. Out of State
UC regents capped future out of state admits to the UCLA, Berkeley, San Diego and Irvine campuses to that of the 2017/2018 levels of 18.9% to 24.4%.

By ethnicity
Among ethnic and racial categories, the share of white students among the freshmen accepted pool continued to drop. 

Whites, 23.8% (compared to 25.1% last year)
Asian Americans, 34.2%
Latinos 33.2%
African Americans 5.0%

By campus
For would-be freshmen from California:

UCLA, 14.6%
Berkeley, 19.7%
San Diego, 31.3%
Santa Barbara, 31.7%
Irvine, 33.4%
Davis, 35.9%
Santa Cruz, 45.1%
Riverside, 57.2%
Merced, 74.3%

In-State vs. Out-of-state vs. International
62.6% of the record high 111,856 California freshmen applicants were accepted (down from 67.5% last year).
International students, 67.2% (up from 63.2% percent last year)
Americans from other states (54.1%, up from 50.9% last year)

[Papa John]

Another thing to consider: the bar is much lower (and much cheaper) for UC admissions--this includes all campuses--for those who are willing to go the 2-year community college transfer route.

[Papa John]

Another thing to consider: the bar is much lower (and much cheaper) for UC admissions--this includes all campuses--for those who are willing to go the 2-year community college transfer route.

[Mick]

Another thing to consider: the bar is much lower (and much cheaper) for UC admissions--this includes all campuses--for those who are willing to go the 2-year community college transfer route.

Good point.  Incoming UC president Janet Napolitano wants to guarantee admissions to the UC and CSU system for JC grads who are academically eligible.  There were about 32,000 applicants from JCs, and 3/4 of them gained admittance to a UC.  Pretty good numbers.

[Mick]

Another thing to consider: the bar is much lower (and much cheaper) for UC admissions--this includes all campuses--for those who are willing to go the 2-year community college transfer route.

Good point.  Incoming UC president Janet Napolitano wants to guarantee admissions to the UC and CSU system for JC grads who are academically eligible.  There were about 32,000 applicants from JCs, and 3/4 of them gained admittance to a UC.  Pretty good numbers.