01-17-2019, 07:16 PM
On ESPN2 now. With 13 minutes to go in 1H, we're down 8-12 on a banked three. DVRing so will leave commentary to others.
MBB at UW
01-17-2019, 07:28 PM
Stanford having a very tough time with UW's 3-2 zone. Passes around the perimeter, then relying on individual effort just to get off a shot, most of which have missed. 7 TOs and 1 assist after 12 minutes of play. Score is 25-12 Huskies.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
Stanford having a very tough time with UW's 3-2 zone. Passes around the perimeter, then relying on individual effort just to get off a shot, most of which have missed. 7 TOs and 1 assist after 12 minutes of play. Score is 25-12 Huskies.
"We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."
-Casey Jacobsen, Feb 3, 2000
01-17-2019, 08:48 PM
UW is good, but the inconsistency this year is Dawkins-esque. The tempo may be different, but the results are the same.
11 years in a row of Mediocrity at Maples. I'm sick of it, but sadly it's going to take at least one more season of this before Muir sends Haase packing, followed by another year or two with a new coach.
11 years in a row of Mediocrity at Maples. I'm sick of it, but sadly it's going to take at least one more season of this before Muir sends Haase packing, followed by another year or two with a new coach.
UW is good, but the inconsistency this year is Dawkins-esque. The tempo may be different, but the results are the same.
11 years in a row of Mediocrity at Maples. I'm sick of it, but sadly it's going to take at least one more season of this before Muir sends Haase packing, followed by another year or two with a new coach.
11 years in a row of Mediocrity at Maples. I'm sick of it, but sadly it's going to take at least one more season of this before Muir sends Haase packing, followed by another year or two with a new coach.
01-17-2019, 09:03 PM
Haters gotta hate, I guess, but the continued invoking of Dawkins [you know, that coach who is 13-3 this season] is really mind-boggling. Pretty much any of Dawkins' teams would have regularly beaten this team, yet nobody ever criticizes Haase with anywhere near the vitriol that was routinely heaped on Dawkins after games in which the level of team play was much better than this team [or, for that matter, last year's team] shows. Instead, they make snide comments about... Dawkins.
Give it up...
Give it up...
Haters gotta hate, I guess, but the continued invoking of Dawkins [you know, that coach who is 13-3 this season] is really mind-boggling. Pretty much any of Dawkins' teams would have regularly beaten this team, yet nobody ever criticizes Haase with anywhere near the vitriol that was routinely heaped on Dawkins after games in which the level of team play was much better than this team [or, for that matter, last year's team] shows. Instead, they make snide comments about... Dawkins.
Give it up...
Give it up...
01-17-2019, 10:37 PM
What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
01-18-2019, 12:39 AM
I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.
If there's one thing people have learned in Berkeley, it's that you can't put "Cal football" and "Rose Bowl" in the same sentence. The words just don't fit. You'd be better off linking "covered wagons" with "Mars travel." (Bruce Jenkins, Cal '70, SF Chronicle, Nov. 11, 2017)
01-18-2019, 02:38 AM
(01-18-2019, 12:39 AM)Papa John Wrote: I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.
I hope you're right, because I really don't want to have to hire ANOTHER coach...
I worry Okpala is going to leave.
(01-18-2019, 12:39 AM)Papa John Wrote: I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.
I hope you're right, because I really don't want to have to hire ANOTHER coach...
I worry Okpala is going to leave.
01-18-2019, 07:15 AM
(01-18-2019, 12:39 AM)Papa John Wrote: I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.Stanford may need to accept that level of excellence, but looking at the potential for a possible NCAA tournament team NEXT season is really depressing.
The NEXT season stuff gets old, especially when the aspiration is not particularly amazing.
This current Stanford team is OK, but is so far away from claiming a #1-#4 type seed for the NCAA tournament that should be/could be/was the standard. Stanford Hoops had a few great coaches for a spell but has reverted back to its long term norm as a below average program in the Pac-12. Sigh..
Though hoops serves as a great reminder for those that squawk about Shaw not doing X or Y or Z. Be careful what you wish for as Stanford's football legacy is not filled with 10+ win seasons, outside of this current Coach Shaw experience.
(01-18-2019, 12:39 AM)Papa John Wrote: I may be the only one thinking this, but, in spite of the disappointment at the current state of affairs, I look at the level of talent on this team, and I believe that it will be an NCAA tournament team in March 2020. Assuming, of course, that no one goes pro or transfers this spring.Stanford may need to accept that level of excellence, but looking at the potential for a possible NCAA tournament team NEXT season is really depressing.
The NEXT season stuff gets old, especially when the aspiration is not particularly amazing.
This current Stanford team is OK, but is so far away from claiming a #1-#4 type seed for the NCAA tournament that should be/could be/was the standard. Stanford Hoops had a few great coaches for a spell but has reverted back to its long term norm as a below average program in the Pac-12. Sigh..
Though hoops serves as a great reminder for those that squawk about Shaw not doing X or Y or Z. Be careful what you wish for as Stanford's football legacy is not filled with 10+ win seasons, outside of this current Coach Shaw experience.
01-18-2019, 08:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019, 08:05 AM by BostonCard.)
.
I’ll be the first to agree with you that the attitude towards Dawkins was disappointing. At times it seemed like people on this and other Stanford sites were hoping that Dawkins would fail so he could get fired sooner. Even after I became convinced that he was not the right coach for Stanford, I continued to hope I was wrong and that he would turn it around.
That attitude, however, developed over years. If Haase goes on like this for even another year or two, I think you will see increasing amount of vitriol towards him on this board. And if he somehow lasts seven years here, you will see as much frustration here as there was about Dawkins.
What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
(01-17-2019, 09:03 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: Haters gotta hate, I guess, but the continued invoking of Dawkins [you know, that coach who is 13-3 this season] is really mind-boggling. Pretty much any of Dawkins' teams would have regularly beaten this team, yet nobody ever criticizes Haase with anywhere near the vitriol that was routinely heaped on Dawkins after games in which the level of team play was much better than this team [or, for that matter, last year's team] shows. Instead, they make snide comments about... Dawkins.
Give it up...
I’ll be the first to agree with you that the attitude towards Dawkins was disappointing. At times it seemed like people on this and other Stanford sites were hoping that Dawkins would fail so he could get fired sooner. Even after I became convinced that he was not the right coach for Stanford, I continued to hope I was wrong and that he would turn it around.
That attitude, however, developed over years. If Haase goes on like this for even another year or two, I think you will see increasing amount of vitriol towards him on this board. And if he somehow lasts seven years here, you will see as much frustration here as there was about Dawkins.
What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019, 08:05 AM by BostonCard.)
.
I’ll be the first to agree with you that the attitude towards Dawkins was disappointing. At times it seemed like people on this and other Stanford sites were hoping that Dawkins would fail so he could get fired sooner. Even after I became convinced that he was not the right coach for Stanford, I continued to hope I was wrong and that he would turn it around.
That attitude, however, developed over years. If Haase goes on like this for even another year or two, I think you will see increasing amount of vitriol towards him on this board. And if he somehow lasts seven years here, you will see as much frustration here as there was about Dawkins.
What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
(01-17-2019, 09:03 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: Haters gotta hate, I guess, but the continued invoking of Dawkins [you know, that coach who is 13-3 this season] is really mind-boggling. Pretty much any of Dawkins' teams would have regularly beaten this team, yet nobody ever criticizes Haase with anywhere near the vitriol that was routinely heaped on Dawkins after games in which the level of team play was much better than this team [or, for that matter, last year's team] shows. Instead, they make snide comments about... Dawkins.
Give it up...
I’ll be the first to agree with you that the attitude towards Dawkins was disappointing. At times it seemed like people on this and other Stanford sites were hoping that Dawkins would fail so he could get fired sooner. Even after I became convinced that he was not the right coach for Stanford, I continued to hope I was wrong and that he would turn it around.
That attitude, however, developed over years. If Haase goes on like this for even another year or two, I think you will see increasing amount of vitriol towards him on this board. And if he somehow lasts seven years here, you will see as much frustration here as there was about Dawkins.
What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
01-18-2019, 08:38 AM
(01-17-2019, 10:37 PM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
I've seen most of the games this season, and lack of effort by the players is not the problem here. Just from last night, I can recall one loose ball where 3 Stanford players ended up on the floor going after it. Maybe lack of talent is the problem. Maybe it's bad coaching. Maybe our guys are too inexperienced to execute the game plans well. But lack of effort is not the issue.
Anyone know what happend to Marcus Sheffield? He seems to have disappeared from the rotation.
(01-17-2019, 10:37 PM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
I've seen most of the games this season, and lack of effort by the players is not the problem here. Just from last night, I can recall one loose ball where 3 Stanford players ended up on the floor going after it. Maybe lack of talent is the problem. Maybe it's bad coaching. Maybe our guys are too inexperienced to execute the game plans well. But lack of effort is not the issue.
Anyone know what happend to Marcus Sheffield? He seems to have disappeared from the rotation.
(01-18-2019, 08:03 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
Shaw wasn't only two recruiting classes into his tenure, playing with all freshmen & sophomores, and missing his best player from last year who left after signing windows closed. That being said, the quality of play this season is not good enough for the alleged talent on this roster, especially the sophomores. Davis is still a turnover machine and I still can't figure out what to make of da Silva but whatever Haase is trying to do with him it's not working. Okpala is the lone shining star of that top 20 class, and I won't be surprised if he enters the draft this year.
If Haase were in his fourth or fifth season with a roster full of veteran players he recruited and still playing like this, I expect the frustration would be at the same level it was with Shaw this year and with Dawkins in his last few years.
The bar for Haase is the Big Dance. Doesn't have to be a top seed, just an invitation. This program is nowhere close, and although I want to see it happen I struggle to see how that big of a gap is going to be closed in the next 13 months.
(01-18-2019, 08:03 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
Shaw wasn't only two recruiting classes into his tenure, playing with all freshmen & sophomores, and missing his best player from last year who left after signing windows closed. That being said, the quality of play this season is not good enough for the alleged talent on this roster, especially the sophomores. Davis is still a turnover machine and I still can't figure out what to make of da Silva but whatever Haase is trying to do with him it's not working. Okpala is the lone shining star of that top 20 class, and I won't be surprised if he enters the draft this year.
If Haase were in his fourth or fifth season with a roster full of veteran players he recruited and still playing like this, I expect the frustration would be at the same level it was with Shaw this year and with Dawkins in his last few years.
The bar for Haase is the Big Dance. Doesn't have to be a top seed, just an invitation. This program is nowhere close, and although I want to see it happen I struggle to see how that big of a gap is going to be closed in the next 13 months.
01-18-2019, 09:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019, 10:10 AM by Scooter_Stepford.)
(01-18-2019, 08:38 AM)burger Wrote:(01-17-2019, 10:37 PM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
I've seen most of the games this season, and lack of effort by the players is not the problem here. Just from last night, I can recall one loose ball where 3 Stanford players ended up on the floor going after it. Maybe lack of talent is the problem. Maybe it's bad coaching. Maybe our guys are too inexperienced to execute the game plans well. But lack of effort is not the issue.
Anyone know what happend to Marcus Sheffield? He seems to have disappeared from the rotation.
Where would the coaches come down on this topic?
I remember the play you mention. I also remember the rest of the game. Stanford sleep-walked through that game, particularly the first half. Special mention to our three 'best' players.
Unfortunately, that is a common theme this season.
Sheffield is a curious case.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2019, 10:10 AM by Scooter_Stepford.)
(01-18-2019, 08:38 AM)burger Wrote:(01-17-2019, 10:37 PM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: What is going on with this team?
They are often unwatchable. Why is there virtually no fight or energy from these guys? Do they even care?
It looks like Haase filled his roster with a full complement of anti-Haases.
It's extremely disappointing.
I've seen most of the games this season, and lack of effort by the players is not the problem here. Just from last night, I can recall one loose ball where 3 Stanford players ended up on the floor going after it. Maybe lack of talent is the problem. Maybe it's bad coaching. Maybe our guys are too inexperienced to execute the game plans well. But lack of effort is not the issue.
Anyone know what happend to Marcus Sheffield? He seems to have disappeared from the rotation.
Where would the coaches come down on this topic?
I remember the play you mention. I also remember the rest of the game. Stanford sleep-walked through that game, particularly the first half. Special mention to our three 'best' players.
Unfortunately, that is a common theme this season.
Sheffield is a curious case.
01-18-2019, 12:52 PM
(01-18-2019, 09:55 AM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: Where would the coaches come down on this topic?
I remember the play you mention. I also remember the rest of the game. Stanford sleep-walked through that game, particularly the first half. Special mention to our three 'best' players.
Unfortunately, that is a common theme this season.
Sheffield is a curious case.
I didn't see sleep-walking. I saw a lot of passing the ball around the perimeter in hopes of finding an opening to feed the guy in the middle of the zone. This is only poor effort if Haase was calling for something different that involved more movement. And if that were the case, then I'd have expected to see an early time out and a lot of yelling at the players. More likely, this was either a bad game plan or bad execution of a somewhat different game plan that we never really saw.
(01-18-2019, 09:55 AM)Scooter_Stepford Wrote: Where would the coaches come down on this topic?
I remember the play you mention. I also remember the rest of the game. Stanford sleep-walked through that game, particularly the first half. Special mention to our three 'best' players.
Unfortunately, that is a common theme this season.
Sheffield is a curious case.
I didn't see sleep-walking. I saw a lot of passing the ball around the perimeter in hopes of finding an opening to feed the guy in the middle of the zone. This is only poor effort if Haase was calling for something different that involved more movement. And if that were the case, then I'd have expected to see an early time out and a lot of yelling at the players. More likely, this was either a bad game plan or bad execution of a somewhat different game plan that we never really saw.
01-18-2019, 07:16 PM
(01-18-2019, 09:51 AM)winflop Wrote:(01-18-2019, 08:03 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
Shaw wasn't only two recruiting classes into his tenure, playing with all freshmen & sophomores, and missing his best player from last year who left after signing windows closed. That being said, the quality of play this season is not good enough for the alleged talent on this roster, especially the sophomores. Davis is still a turnover machine and I still can't figure out what to make of da Silva but whatever Haase is trying to do with him it's not working. Okpala is the lone shining star of that top 20 class, and I won't be surprised if he enters the draft this year.
If Haase were in his fourth or fifth season with a roster full of veteran players he recruited and still playing like this, I expect the frustration would be at the same level it was with Shaw this year and with Dawkins in his last few years.
The bar for Haase is the Big Dance. Doesn't have to be a top seed, just an invitation. This program is nowhere close, and although I want to see it happen I struggle to see how that big of a gap is going to be closed in the next 13 months.
Harbaugh started off with less and by his third year was accomplishing more. Mike Montgomery inherited a team with a losing record and had them to the NCAA's by his third year. You don't need to inherit a roster full of veterans or wait until year 4 or 5 to get a sense of the trajectory.
I think it is fair, in fact good, to be patient with coaches. But I would be inclined to be more patient with a coach who has already proven himself over 8 years and is experiencing a slight decline (but who still went 9-4) than with an unproven coach who still has a losing record (41-42, 18-25 in the Pac-12) well into his third year.
BC
(01-18-2019, 09:51 AM)winflop Wrote:(01-18-2019, 08:03 AM)BostonCard Wrote: What frustrates me is that there is as much frustration about Shaw going 9-5 and winding up in the top third of the PAC-12 as there is about Haase, who looks likely to end in the bottom half of the Oac-12 and missing the NCAA tournament, again.
BC
Shaw wasn't only two recruiting classes into his tenure, playing with all freshmen & sophomores, and missing his best player from last year who left after signing windows closed. That being said, the quality of play this season is not good enough for the alleged talent on this roster, especially the sophomores. Davis is still a turnover machine and I still can't figure out what to make of da Silva but whatever Haase is trying to do with him it's not working. Okpala is the lone shining star of that top 20 class, and I won't be surprised if he enters the draft this year.
If Haase were in his fourth or fifth season with a roster full of veteran players he recruited and still playing like this, I expect the frustration would be at the same level it was with Shaw this year and with Dawkins in his last few years.
The bar for Haase is the Big Dance. Doesn't have to be a top seed, just an invitation. This program is nowhere close, and although I want to see it happen I struggle to see how that big of a gap is going to be closed in the next 13 months.
Harbaugh started off with less and by his third year was accomplishing more. Mike Montgomery inherited a team with a losing record and had them to the NCAA's by his third year. You don't need to inherit a roster full of veterans or wait until year 4 or 5 to get a sense of the trajectory.
I think it is fair, in fact good, to be patient with coaches. But I would be inclined to be more patient with a coach who has already proven himself over 8 years and is experiencing a slight decline (but who still went 9-4) than with an unproven coach who still has a losing record (41-42, 18-25 in the Pac-12) well into his third year.
BC
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