12-05-2021, 06:04 PM
A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
BC
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.Additional games also increase the risk that an injury to a critical player alters the landscape halfway through.
BC
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.Additional games also increase the risk that an injury to a critical player alters the landscape halfway through.
BC
(12-05-2021, 11:19 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I hate to piss in the SEC is better punch bowl, but the only reason the SEC always gets chances no other conference gets is because they play 8 conference games and in general, every SEC team has one less loss and one more win than everyone else. When the voters vote, they always see SEC teams as having better records and they get more benefit from beating each other than other conferences do.
(12-05-2021, 11:19 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I hate to piss in the SEC is better punch bowl, but the only reason the SEC always gets chances no other conference gets is because they play 8 conference games and in general, every SEC team has one less loss and one more win than everyone else. When the voters vote, they always see SEC teams as having better records and they get more benefit from beating each other than other conferences do.
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
(12-05-2021, 06:55 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.
They do have the best talent but a season becomes a lot easier and more successful if you're playing 8 conference games and a high school team in November when everyone else is playing a P5 conference foe. Until the committee cleans up that horse schit (I'm looking at you, ACC, too) there's a pretty serious stain on the accomplishments of the $EC.
(12-05-2021, 06:04 PM)BostonCard Wrote: A more inclusive playoff format wouldn’t help either, because the more games played, the greater the chance that a fluke loss will disqualify the “best” team.
BC
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: after OU and UT join the SEC then there will be seven intra-division games and one cross division game a year.....I'd assume UT and OU both end up in the SEC west, if not it will be interesting to see how the reshuffle the divisions to keep the traditional rivals in the same division so they can play every year.
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: after OU and UT join the SEC then there will be seven intra-division games and one cross division game a year.....I'd assume UT and OU both end up in the SEC west, if not it will be interesting to see how the reshuffle the divisions to keep the traditional rivals in the same division so they can play every year.
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: The SEC has won 11 of the last 15 national championships; four different SEC teams have been champions during this period. Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.It indeed shows they have at least one program that is the best in the country. That program is usually Alabama, but there are probably two or three others who belong in that class. Beyond that, the playoffs show nothing about the other SEC schools. It may be they are all pretty good, and there are going to be a few more cross-conference games to showcase that (or not). I will be impressed when the SEC schools all schedule no more than 1 cupcake per year. Then we will know. Until then, not so much.
(12-05-2021, 06:38 PM)DC 86 Wrote: The SEC has won 11 of the last 15 national championships; four different SEC teams have been champions during this period. Playing eight conference games is certainly an advantage but the conference's sheer dominance isn't because of that, it's because they really have the best programs in the country.It indeed shows they have at least one program that is the best in the country. That program is usually Alabama, but there are probably two or three others who belong in that class. Beyond that, the playoffs show nothing about the other SEC schools. It may be they are all pretty good, and there are going to be a few more cross-conference games to showcase that (or not). I will be impressed when the SEC schools all schedule no more than 1 cupcake per year. Then we will know. Until then, not so much.
(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: But in no universe did Notre Dame accomplish more this season than Georgia, nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)
(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: But in no universe did Notre Dame accomplish more this season than Georgia, nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)
(12-05-2021, 10:43 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: UGA opens as a 7.5 point favorite and Bama as a 13.5 point favorite.
These are the two best teams and it isn't close.
(12-05-2021, 10:43 PM)BigJohn043 Wrote: UGA opens as a 7.5 point favorite and Bama as a 13.5 point favorite.
These are the two best teams and it isn't close.
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: if the Pac 12, Big 10, and Big 12 (but that would spoil their round robin talking point) think this is a of immense proportions disadvantage they can all go to eight conference gameswe can't go to 8 plus a cupcake because it would decrease the attractiveness and therefore dollars of the TV package. The SEC can afford to do this, plus pay the cupcakes $1 million+ per, because they are generating so much revenue now. If we go to 8, it will need to be with high-value games that will attract more viewers, hence the negotiations for the Pac-12-Big 10 alliance. I found this 2015 article informative on how Alabama football raises so much money, the athletic department helps support the university. article Some tidbits: they produce a 175+ page game program for each game and sell 17,000 at each game for $5 each. In 2015 they had a waiting list of 31,000 for season tickets for their 101,000+ seat stadium. It's a totally different fan world from ours.
(12-05-2021, 09:01 PM)82lsju Wrote: if the Pac 12, Big 10, and Big 12 (but that would spoil their round robin talking point) think this is a of immense proportions disadvantage they can all go to eight conference gameswe can't go to 8 plus a cupcake because it would decrease the attractiveness and therefore dollars of the TV package. The SEC can afford to do this, plus pay the cupcakes $1 million+ per, because they are generating so much revenue now. If we go to 8, it will need to be with high-value games that will attract more viewers, hence the negotiations for the Pac-12-Big 10 alliance. I found this 2015 article informative on how Alabama football raises so much money, the athletic department helps support the university. article Some tidbits: they produce a 175+ page game program for each game and sell 17,000 at each game for $5 each. In 2015 they had a waiting list of 31,000 for season tickets for their 101,000+ seat stadium. It's a totally different fan world from ours.
(12-05-2021, 05:48 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)I happen to agree with you, but the real problem is that neither ND nor Georgia played a particularly difficult schedule. In a sense, we really don't know how good either of them are. We know ND wasn't better than Cincinnati on the day they played, and we know Georgia was not better than Alabama on the day they played. That's about all we know, because there aren't many other "quality" data points. Clemson wasn't very good this year, so that data point for Georgia is really devalued.
In order to retain sanity, I simply remember that this "playoff" format in no way guarantees the best team in the country will win. If that happens, it is mostly luck, because there are so many conflating factors that can make that not happen. It is for "fun", nothing else.
(12-05-2021, 05:48 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-05-2021, 05:36 PM)DC 86 Wrote: nor is Notre Dame objectively a better team than Georgia (it's not that close.)I happen to agree with you, but the real problem is that neither ND nor Georgia played a particularly difficult schedule. In a sense, we really don't know how good either of them are. We know ND wasn't better than Cincinnati on the day they played, and we know Georgia was not better than Alabama on the day they played. That's about all we know, because there aren't many other "quality" data points. Clemson wasn't very good this year, so that data point for Georgia is really devalued.
In order to retain sanity, I simply remember that this "playoff" format in no way guarantees the best team in the country will win. If that happens, it is mostly luck, because there are so many conflating factors that can make that not happen. It is for "fun", nothing else.
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?I feel certain that you know that "everybody else" (except Cincinnati) also lost a game, which is arguably the mulligan that they in fact did get. It is certainly rational to define the conference championship game as "definitive", since we will consider the CFP games themselves as definitive. That hasn't been done, so the "mulligan" extends to the championship games. Does any of this make "sense"? I don't think so. Unless a given team was undefeated, on some day of the year, some other team was better, because they defeated them. In order to really "know" the truth, you need to play the same games over and over until the p value is adequate. Of course, that wouldn't help even if you could do it, because the teams change skill set and even composition week to week.
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?I feel certain that you know that "everybody else" (except Cincinnati) also lost a game, which is arguably the mulligan that they in fact did get. It is certainly rational to define the conference championship game as "definitive", since we will consider the CFP games themselves as definitive. That hasn't been done, so the "mulligan" extends to the championship games. Does any of this make "sense"? I don't think so. Unless a given team was undefeated, on some day of the year, some other team was better, because they defeated them. In order to really "know" the truth, you need to play the same games over and over until the p value is adequate. Of course, that wouldn't help even if you could do it, because the teams change skill set and even composition week to week.
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
They don’t. They simply are the best one loss team left. Can’t see why you have such a hard time with that. ND played a patsy schedule. Got whipped by the one ranked team they played. OKSU would have had a great argument - had they won. They didn’t. Utah has 2 losses. And the PAC-12 (deservedly) gets no respect. So who is left?
Methinks this is one of those SEC is overrated rants. It is not. It is by far the best football week in week out in the country. And it has, by far, the most talent. As evidenced by the number of SEC players in the NFL.
As for your urgency comments, are you kidding? They had the chance not only to win the SEC, but also would be 1 seed, playing weakest team. And best of all, perhaps knock Bama out.
Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote:(12-06-2021, 09:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd be OK with keeping it at 4 teams on the condition no team that loses its Conference Championship Game is allowed to be in the CFP.
If this were the case for Georgia, maybe UGA might have blitzed Bryce Young before the second half when down by 14+ points. I watched the Alabama-Auburn game and was simply astounded why Georgia didn't follow the same defensive game plan as Auburn, who held Alabama to 0 points through 3 quarters bringing 5 and 6 pass rushers to sack Bryce Young seven times.
Georgia played that SEC CG game like losing wasn't the end of the world for them, with zero urgency. They had the arrogance to think they could rush just 4 guys as they had all season, and it would work to stop Alabama as it did everyone else. Now, should they face Alabama again, they will do so knowing the original plan of rushing just 4 isn't going to work against Alabama. And now that key Alabama WR John Metchie out for season, they will have an even bigger advantage in a second matchup.
Why the hell should Georgia get a mulligan nobody else gets?
They don’t. They simply are the best one loss team left. Can’t see why you have such a hard time with that. ND played a patsy schedule. Got whipped by the one ranked team they played. OKSU would have had a great argument - had they won. They didn’t. Utah has 2 losses. And the PAC-12 (deservedly) gets no respect. So who is left?
Methinks this is one of those SEC is overrated rants. It is not. It is by far the best football week in week out in the country. And it has, by far, the most talent. As evidenced by the number of SEC players in the NFL.
As for your urgency comments, are you kidding? They had the chance not only to win the SEC, but also would be 1 seed, playing weakest team. And best of all, perhaps knock Bama out.
Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote: Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.
(12-06-2021, 11:08 AM)lex24 Wrote: Big 10 is, IMO, the second best. Michigan has a great chance to make a statement.