[Bruce Wang]

http://blog.chron.com/aggies/2013/02/man...-semester/

OK misleading headline.  Johnny Football is taking online classes so he only needs to be on campus once a month.  This article along with all the bad publicity he's gotten lately makes for an interesting contrast with Andrew Luck and Kevin Hogan.  When you throw in Manziel's arrest last summer, I'm glad we got Hogan instead of him.  An interesting counter-factual is if Stanford would have made Johnny Football a better citizen.

[Bruce Wang]

http://blog.chron.com/aggies/2013/02/man...-semester/

OK misleading headline.  Johnny Football is taking online classes so he only needs to be on campus once a month.  This article along with all the bad publicity he's gotten lately makes for an interesting contrast with Andrew Luck and Kevin Hogan.  When you throw in Manziel's arrest last summer, I'm glad we got Hogan instead of him.  An interesting counter-factual is if Stanford would have made Johnny Football a better citizen.

[StannyBoy]

he actually verballed to Oregon and then dropped them so he could play closer to home.

[StannyBoy]

he actually verballed to Oregon and then dropped them so he could play closer to home.

[yvonne]

I don't know that we were ever interested in Manziel or that he was interested in us.

Many reputable schools, including Stanford, are experimenting with online courses. Some are even looking at massive open online courses. I'm taking my second course through Coursera. The first, Gamification, was significantly harder than the second, Introduction to Philosophy. That's because the former included papers and peer evaluations, whereas the second requires only tests.

So taking online courses isn't in and of itself a negative thing. The problem happens if he is taking courses that aren't up to the same university level of information and sufficient rigor. Also, if he chose to cheat, it would be much easier. Someone else could much more easily complete assignments and tests than if he were in a classroom in which people recognized him.

Going forward, the big issue with online courses won't be rigor, however. It will be whether online courses can sufficiently replicate the university experience in a remote environment. I can't imagine that will happen anytime soon.

[yvonne]

I don't know that we were ever interested in Manziel or that he was interested in us.

Many reputable schools, including Stanford, are experimenting with online courses. Some are even looking at massive open online courses. I'm taking my second course through Coursera. The first, Gamification, was significantly harder than the second, Introduction to Philosophy. That's because the former included papers and peer evaluations, whereas the second requires only tests.

So taking online courses isn't in and of itself a negative thing. The problem happens if he is taking courses that aren't up to the same university level of information and sufficient rigor. Also, if he chose to cheat, it would be much easier. Someone else could much more easily complete assignments and tests than if he were in a classroom in which people recognized him.

Going forward, the big issue with online courses won't be rigor, however. It will be whether online courses can sufficiently replicate the university experience in a remote environment. I can't imagine that will happen anytime soon.

[washingtonismoney]

Not sure if that article includes Manziel's rationale, but apparently he was getting swarmed in every class he went to and felt it was distracting for him and the rest of the class. In of itself, that's commendable.

[washingtonismoney]

Not sure if that article includes Manziel's rationale, but apparently he was getting swarmed in every class he went to and felt it was distracting for him and the rest of the class. In of itself, that's commendable.

[Kathy]

Manziel, the first freshman to win the Voldemort, is hounded for autograph and picture requests most everywhere he goes these days. Manziel said he switched out of an on-campus English course early in the semester.

“I went one day – it was a small class of 20 or 25 – and it kind of turned into more of a big deal than I thought,” Manziel said.

I don't fault Manziel for trying to clear the distractions. He hasn't left school and he's not getting an online degree; he's just taking classes in a different format this semester. There's nothing inherently wrong with online classes. My kids have been taking occasional college-level online classes since they were in high school.  Back then, it provided access without the  burden of transportation. In college, they sometimes took online classes when the section in the physical classroom was full -- a better option than waiting a semester or two for a necessary class. There are lots of reasons to utilize that format in education.

Those of you who live in densely populated areas may not realize the tremendous impact technology has had on the educational opportunities now available to rural America. Most colleges and universities are way beyond mere experimentation with distance learning and online offerings. In the college town where I'm based (aptly nicknamed Collegetown, USA), seven colleges have campuses located here, and all offer online programs to the rural areas of Missouri as well as surrounding states and beyond. Columbia College has carved out a niche offering educational programs on military bases, a hybrid of online and branch campus classroom coursework. Mizzou recently revamped its online program.

I'm sure Johnny Manziel's semester will not be lacking in the full university experience. The lack of distraction may actually help after what was a very distracting fall. Good for him.

And for those people in a remote environment who seek an education despite distance limitations, the lack of a traditional university experience may be less of an issue than is the desire for educational opportunity. The market for educational delivery systems  is changing rapidly, driven by the demand for access.

[Kathy]

Manziel, the first freshman to win the Voldemort, is hounded for autograph and picture requests most everywhere he goes these days. Manziel said he switched out of an on-campus English course early in the semester.

“I went one day – it was a small class of 20 or 25 – and it kind of turned into more of a big deal than I thought,” Manziel said.

I don't fault Manziel for trying to clear the distractions. He hasn't left school and he's not getting an online degree; he's just taking classes in a different format this semester. There's nothing inherently wrong with online classes. My kids have been taking occasional college-level online classes since they were in high school.  Back then, it provided access without the  burden of transportation. In college, they sometimes took online classes when the section in the physical classroom was full -- a better option than waiting a semester or two for a necessary class. There are lots of reasons to utilize that format in education.

Those of you who live in densely populated areas may not realize the tremendous impact technology has had on the educational opportunities now available to rural America. Most colleges and universities are way beyond mere experimentation with distance learning and online offerings. In the college town where I'm based (aptly nicknamed Collegetown, USA), seven colleges have campuses located here, and all offer online programs to the rural areas of Missouri as well as surrounding states and beyond. Columbia College has carved out a niche offering educational programs on military bases, a hybrid of online and branch campus classroom coursework. Mizzou recently revamped its online program.

I'm sure Johnny Manziel's semester will not be lacking in the full university experience. The lack of distraction may actually help after what was a very distracting fall. Good for him.

And for those people in a remote environment who seek an education despite distance limitations, the lack of a traditional university experience may be less of an issue than is the desire for educational opportunity. The market for educational delivery systems  is changing rapidly, driven by the demand for access.

[Rando]

Not really digging his nickname. Really hope he doesn't make it big pro and I have to hear about "Johnny Football" throughout the week and on Sundays. Nothing against the guy I'm just not a big fan of what I've read about him.

I feel like it's a nickname that should probably be earned in the NFL. Like someone an all time NFL great would have. Not a freshman college QB who just won Voldemort. No telling if this guy will make it big. Isn't he 6'2?

[Rando]

Not really digging his nickname. Really hope he doesn't make it big pro and I have to hear about "Johnny Football" throughout the week and on Sundays. Nothing against the guy I'm just not a big fan of what I've read about him.

I feel like it's a nickname that should probably be earned in the NFL. Like someone an all time NFL great would have. Not a freshman college QB who just won Voldemort. No telling if this guy will make it big. Isn't he 6'2?

[Hank 91]

I wonder about Johnny Football getting mobbed in class. Much was made of how Andrew Luck enjoyed being just a regular student walking around campus, and how that possibility appealed to Barry J. Sanders. I get the fact that Texas A&M is more football crazy than Stanford and I also understand that there are probably fewer luminaries (concert pianists, Olympians, children of Presidents) walking around College Station, but do they really mob their football heroes? Probably the biggest star when I was on campus was Janet Evans, fresh off the Seoul Olympics. She lived in the dorm next door, and while it was definitely cool to see her, it wasn't that big a deal.

I also understand that I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I would still be surprised if Manziel's celebrity were making it too difficult for him to attend class -- unless, of course, he rarely attends, which would make an appearance noteworthy.

[Hank 91]

I wonder about Johnny Football getting mobbed in class. Much was made of how Andrew Luck enjoyed being just a regular student walking around campus, and how that possibility appealed to Barry J. Sanders. I get the fact that Texas A&M is more football crazy than Stanford and I also understand that there are probably fewer luminaries (concert pianists, Olympians, children of Presidents) walking around College Station, but do they really mob their football heroes? Probably the biggest star when I was on campus was Janet Evans, fresh off the Seoul Olympics. She lived in the dorm next door, and while it was definitely cool to see her, it wasn't that big a deal.

I also understand that I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I would still be surprised if Manziel's celebrity were making it too difficult for him to attend class -- unless, of course, he rarely attends, which would make an appearance noteworthy.

[Leftcoast]

Eric Heiden, Pablo Morales, John Elway and (briefly) Bill Walton were all widely known sport names on campus when I was around.  I can't remember any of them getting bothered although I do remember all the heads turning when a prof called Heiden's name while handing out papers.  Stanford isn't celebrity crazy in that way.

[Leftcoast]

Eric Heiden, Pablo Morales, John Elway and (briefly) Bill Walton were all widely known sport names on campus when I was around.  I can't remember any of them getting bothered although I do remember all the heads turning when a prof called Heiden's name while handing out papers.  Stanford isn't celebrity crazy in that way.

[Kathy]

Comparing celebrity-jaded California to football-crazy Texas isn't a matter of apples and oranges. They're two different planets.

[Kathy]

Comparing celebrity-jaded California to football-crazy Texas isn't a matter of apples and oranges. They're two different planets.

[washingtonismoney]

Speaking of celebrities, there was a time in which Michelle Wie and I tended to go to the same dining hall. I was always struck that I seemed to be the only human being who noticed her, which surprised me on two counts: 1) the celebrity angle and 2) the good-looking girl angle. Either of these things, you'd think, would attract some attention but not really in her case.

I know the not-getting-too-much-attention angle has been debunked a bit in the case of Barry J. (I believe he said the main thing was the running game and the academics but that the attention part was nice), but I do wonder how many players would be attracted to the idea of not being obsessively fawned over everywhere if they had to make the decision all over again.

[washingtonismoney]

Speaking of celebrities, there was a time in which Michelle Wie and I tended to go to the same dining hall. I was always struck that I seemed to be the only human being who noticed her, which surprised me on two counts: 1) the celebrity angle and 2) the good-looking girl angle. Either of these things, you'd think, would attract some attention but not really in her case.

I know the not-getting-too-much-attention angle has been debunked a bit in the case of Barry J. (I believe he said the main thing was the running game and the academics but that the attention part was nice), but I do wonder how many players would be attracted to the idea of not being obsessively fawned over everywhere if they had to make the decision all over again.

[Roberton3]

Online classes -- at least the way they currently work -- are a very poor substitute for a real class.  I've never taught one myself, but I've talked with other faculty who have, and their opinions of online classes are really negative (if you talk with them in private, off-the-record -- in public, they're more positive, because college administrators are very aggressively pushing online classes).  The major concerns I've heard are: (1) Cheating is rampant in these classes.  One professor guessed that three-quarters of his students cheat.  (2) There's much less contact with faculty and teaching assistants, and it's typically via email or online chat rather than face-to-face.  (3) For classes with any lab or hands-on aspects, there's just no way to adequately replicate that remotely.

The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes (ones that are usually taught in brobdingnagian lectures anyway, and don't have labs or anything else hands-on), and that even a bad class is better than no class at all (online courses can reach students who might otherwise not make it to college).  And there's a lot of truth there.  So there is definitely a role for online courses.  But they're not anywhere close to being an adequate substitute for the majority of college classes (at least with today's technology).  And the idea that any real university would allow a student to take all of his courses online is pretty scary.  It greatly lowers my opinion of Texas A&M that they're allowing that.

The cheating issue is also particularly a problem if we're talking about athletes taking courses online.  If you're going to allow that, you might as well waive academic requirements for athletes altogether.  I'm not saying that Manziel is cheating.  But he could be, and if he is, he'll never get caught.

[Roberton3]

Online classes -- at least the way they currently work -- are a very poor substitute for a real class.  I've never taught one myself, but I've talked with other faculty who have, and their opinions of online classes are really negative (if you talk with them in private, off-the-record -- in public, they're more positive, because college administrators are very aggressively pushing online classes).  The major concerns I've heard are: (1) Cheating is rampant in these classes.  One professor guessed that three-quarters of his students cheat.  (2) There's much less contact with faculty and teaching assistants, and it's typically via email or online chat rather than face-to-face.  (3) For classes with any lab or hands-on aspects, there's just no way to adequately replicate that remotely.

The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes (ones that are usually taught in brobdingnagian lectures anyway, and don't have labs or anything else hands-on), and that even a bad class is better than no class at all (online courses can reach students who might otherwise not make it to college).  And there's a lot of truth there.  So there is definitely a role for online courses.  But they're not anywhere close to being an adequate substitute for the majority of college classes (at least with today's technology).  And the idea that any real university would allow a student to take all of his courses online is pretty scary.  It greatly lowers my opinion of Texas A&M that they're allowing that.

The cheating issue is also particularly a problem if we're talking about athletes taking courses online.  If you're going to allow that, you might as well waive academic requirements for athletes altogether.  I'm not saying that Manziel is cheating.  But he could be, and if he is, he'll never get caught.

[Extra Point]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

[Extra Point]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

[jayasena]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

What Roberton3 said matches very closely with conversations I've had with well-established engineering faculty at Stanford and elsewhere. And I don't think they feel threatened by the online trend. These are people who would actually benefit from not having to spend time and energy teaching introductory classes*. Time and effort they could spend on their research, writing more grant proposals, mentoring the students in their research groups etc. Pretty much all of the metrics they care about would stand to benefit from not having to teach introductory classes (or most undergraduate-level classes, for that matter).

* Many of them do view introductory classes as a crucial element that lays the foundation for the entire higher education experience, and often spend large amounts of time preparing and teaching such courses.

[jayasena]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

What Roberton3 said matches very closely with conversations I've had with well-established engineering faculty at Stanford and elsewhere. And I don't think they feel threatened by the online trend. These are people who would actually benefit from not having to spend time and energy teaching introductory classes*. Time and effort they could spend on their research, writing more grant proposals, mentoring the students in their research groups etc. Pretty much all of the metrics they care about would stand to benefit from not having to teach introductory classes (or most undergraduate-level classes, for that matter).

* Many of them do view introductory classes as a crucial element that lays the foundation for the entire higher education experience, and often spend large amounts of time preparing and teaching such courses.

[washingtonismoney]

I don't doubt that most online courses stink at the moment. That, however, is kind of the point of a disruptive product.

[washingtonismoney]

I don't doubt that most online courses stink at the moment. That, however, is kind of the point of a disruptive product.

[Roberton3]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

As somnambule and garvin noted, even those professors who are benefitting from having more online classes tend to be negative (in private) about them.  The professors I was talking about are the ones who are teaching online classes, and getting a bonus or some other incentive for doing so -- so if anything, they'll be biased in favor of online classes.  If you talk to professors whose livelihoods are being threatened by online classes, you'll get a vastly more negative view.

As I noted, there are some big potential benefits of online education -- reaching students who otherwise couldn't attend college (the programs targeting military servicemen stationed overseas, for example).  But there's also a lot of unjustified hype, and far too little attention to the disadvantages.

[Roberton3]

"The most positive things I've heard those faculty say are that online classes can be adequate for some intro-level classes"

Do you think there is any chance that professors have a vested interest in this matter? There is plenty of information available about the benefits of on-line classes. But, you are not going to hear much from those whose livelihood is threatened by it.

As somnambule and garvin noted, even those professors who are benefitting from having more online classes tend to be negative (in private) about them.  The professors I was talking about are the ones who are teaching online classes, and getting a bonus or some other incentive for doing so -- so if anything, they'll be biased in favor of online classes.  If you talk to professors whose livelihoods are being threatened by online classes, you'll get a vastly more negative view.

As I noted, there are some big potential benefits of online education -- reaching students who otherwise couldn't attend college (the programs targeting military servicemen stationed overseas, for example).  But there's also a lot of unjustified hype, and far too little attention to the disadvantages.

[fishman]

Call me a cynic, but I think all this debate about the merits of online vs. in-person classes and who's biased in comparing them just totally misses the point.

Get real!!  Johnny is having too good a time to let academics interfere with his fun, and he's there to get an NFL job, not a degree.  Online classes let him do what he wants to do, and his reported four courses in sports management can't be overly taxing to begin with.  If he's so bothered with the attention he receives in class, why does he very publicly attend the NBA All Star game, Mardi Gras and the Super Bowl, among other recent and very public (even more than English class!) events??  Being on campus one day a month, except of course during football season, is a great lifestyle for a 19-year old.

If he truly wanted to avoid attention, even at a football-crazed Texas school, he could do what Andrew Luck did - deflect the attention, do what regular students do  like go to class and live on campus, and act like a full-time student, not a media megastar.  I'm not saying we should expect him to do any of that, because he's not really in school to be a student, but he has to appear to be to retain his eligibility.  Qualities of online classes have nothing to do with it.   

[fishman]

Call me a cynic, but I think all this debate about the merits of online vs. in-person classes and who's biased in comparing them just totally misses the point.

Get real!!  Johnny is having too good a time to let academics interfere with his fun, and he's there to get an NFL job, not a degree.  Online classes let him do what he wants to do, and his reported four courses in sports management can't be overly taxing to begin with.  If he's so bothered with the attention he receives in class, why does he very publicly attend the NBA All Star game, Mardi Gras and the Super Bowl, among other recent and very public (even more than English class!) events??  Being on campus one day a month, except of course during football season, is a great lifestyle for a 19-year old.

If he truly wanted to avoid attention, even at a football-crazed Texas school, he could do what Andrew Luck did - deflect the attention, do what regular students do  like go to class and live on campus, and act like a full-time student, not a media megastar.  I'm not saying we should expect him to do any of that, because he's not really in school to be a student, but he has to appear to be to retain his eligibility.  Qualities of online classes have nothing to do with it.   

[Oasis]

Online classes -- at least the way they currently work -- are a very poor substitute for a real class. 

I listen to a good many online classes (including a heretical Civil War course), but as entertainment.  One thing that drives me crazy is the excessive use of "uh" in lectures. You'll find a great topic and damned if the professor doesn't "uh" about every third syllable.  Yale has a wonderful course on Hemingway, Fitzgerald and Faulkner.  The professor, Wai Chee Dimock, is very good: lots of beautiful insights, but sometimes she gets this "uh-itis" and it's just not tolerable -- without another drink.  I don't think this would be as noticeable live as it is in the online setting.

[Oasis]

Online classes -- at least the way they currently work -- are a very poor substitute for a real class. 

I listen to a good many online classes (including a heretical Civil War course), but as entertainment.  One thing that drives me crazy is the excessive use of "uh" in lectures. You'll find a great topic and damned if the professor doesn't "uh" about every third syllable.  Yale has a wonderful course on Hemingway, Fitzgerald and Faulkner.  The professor, Wai Chee Dimock, is very good: lots of beautiful insights, but sometimes she gets this "uh-itis" and it's just not tolerable -- without another drink.  I don't think this would be as noticeable live as it is in the online setting.

[Farm93]

Back in the day, now longer ago than I care to mention, this athlete-celebrity stuff was just not that big of a deal.  Though with iphones, twitter, facebook and the like, I could imagine that many athletes would just prefer to avoid having people take pictures if they fall asleep, look tired or sport bandages, slings or crutches.

Fun now to look back on things though.  My dorms included John Lynch, Janet Evans and David Shaw.  Of the three, only Janet Evans was the only big deal athlete at the time.  It was widely known that she wanted, but did not get, special treatment by Stanford (freshman off-campus housing), and the NCAA (Olympic athlete training hours).  In the end she left Stanford completely to train for the 1992 Olympics.

Thanks to the NFL rules, and the lack of any European football leagues, Johnny does not have that leave now option. I am not sure I believe that TA&M students would swarm over him like paparazzi swarm Bieber, but I could imagine on-line classes would simplify life a lot.

The easier cheating seems like a concern, but at most schools it has always been very easy to cheat on tests in any setting if that was the goal. 

[Farm93]

Back in the day, now longer ago than I care to mention, this athlete-celebrity stuff was just not that big of a deal.  Though with iphones, twitter, facebook and the like, I could imagine that many athletes would just prefer to avoid having people take pictures if they fall asleep, look tired or sport bandages, slings or crutches.

Fun now to look back on things though.  My dorms included John Lynch, Janet Evans and David Shaw.  Of the three, only Janet Evans was the only big deal athlete at the time.  It was widely known that she wanted, but did not get, special treatment by Stanford (freshman off-campus housing), and the NCAA (Olympic athlete training hours).  In the end she left Stanford completely to train for the 1992 Olympics.

Thanks to the NFL rules, and the lack of any European football leagues, Johnny does not have that leave now option. I am not sure I believe that TA&M students would swarm over him like paparazzi swarm Bieber, but I could imagine on-line classes would simplify life a lot.

The easier cheating seems like a concern, but at most schools it has always been very easy to cheat on tests in any setting if that was the goal. 

[Bruce Wang]

This is a STANFORD man.



This is NOT.

[Bruce Wang]

This is a STANFORD man.



This is NOT.

[oman]

Let's just say that if JM and I were sharing moo goo gai pan, I wouldn't drench it with soy sauce without asking.

[oman]

Let's just say that if JM and I were sharing moo goo gai pan, I wouldn't drench it with soy sauce without asking.