[FarmBoy]

Ted Miller highlighted a recent Ivan Maisel story on the Pac12 Pipeline to NFL coaches. I didn't realize how distinctive the Pac12 is in sending coaches into the NFL. Apparently, since the 70s the B1G has sent 1 coach to the NFL, the SEC sent 3, and the Pac12 sent FIFTEEN. And that's just head coaches (for example, Kiffen was an assistant when he left USC to coach the Raiders.) And to think, Stanford has had as many coaches make the transition as the B1G and SEC combined: Ralston, Walsh, Green and Harbaugh.

Here's teh Ivan Maisel story: http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...chip-kelly

Miller's makes some interesting hypotheses at to why Pac12 coaches are more likely to make the jump:

Out of the box hires create fast-rising stars: Kelly, Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll each arrived in the Pac-12 in creative ways. Mike Bellotti made the inspired decision to hire Kelly away from New Hampshire. Harbaugh mostly generated head scratches when Stanford hired him away from San Diego. And Carroll was USC's 174th choice after a bumbling search. Heck, even Bill Walsh was a frustrated NFL assistant when he arrived at Stanford.
Previous NFL experience: Carroll had previous NFL coaching experience. So did Dick Vermeil, Bill Walsh and Dennis Erickson. Harbaugh was a longtime NFL QB. Several other guys on the list at least had a cup of coffee as an NFL assistant before taking over a Pac-8/10/12 team. You could conjecture that many of them viewed returning to the NFL as their ultimate ambition, unlike a college coaching lifer.
Recruiting rules in SEC: The most important skill for a head coach in the SEC is without question: Recruiting. The competition for recruits nationwide is brutal, but it's a blood sport in the Southeast. And that is not really a skill that translates in the NFL.
Money: Some conferences' pay scales are competitive with the NFL. The Pac-12's is not.

Here's Miller write up as well: http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/...ne#comment

[FarmBoy]

Ted Miller highlighted a recent Ivan Maisel story on the Pac12 Pipeline to NFL coaches. I didn't realize how distinctive the Pac12 is in sending coaches into the NFL. Apparently, since the 70s the B1G has sent 1 coach to the NFL, the SEC sent 3, and the Pac12 sent FIFTEEN. And that's just head coaches (for example, Kiffen was an assistant when he left USC to coach the Raiders.) And to think, Stanford has had as many coaches make the transition as the B1G and SEC combined: Ralston, Walsh, Green and Harbaugh.

Here's teh Ivan Maisel story: http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...chip-kelly

Miller's makes some interesting hypotheses at to why Pac12 coaches are more likely to make the jump:

Out of the box hires create fast-rising stars: Kelly, Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll each arrived in the Pac-12 in creative ways. Mike Bellotti made the inspired decision to hire Kelly away from New Hampshire. Harbaugh mostly generated head scratches when Stanford hired him away from San Diego. And Carroll was USC's 174th choice after a bumbling search. Heck, even Bill Walsh was a frustrated NFL assistant when he arrived at Stanford.
Previous NFL experience: Carroll had previous NFL coaching experience. So did Dick Vermeil, Bill Walsh and Dennis Erickson. Harbaugh was a longtime NFL QB. Several other guys on the list at least had a cup of coffee as an NFL assistant before taking over a Pac-8/10/12 team. You could conjecture that many of them viewed returning to the NFL as their ultimate ambition, unlike a college coaching lifer.
Recruiting rules in SEC: The most important skill for a head coach in the SEC is without question: Recruiting. The competition for recruits nationwide is brutal, but it's a blood sport in the Southeast. And that is not really a skill that translates in the NFL.
Money: Some conferences' pay scales are competitive with the NFL. The Pac-12's is not.

Here's Miller write up as well: http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/...ne#comment

[Bruce Wang]

Harbaugh mostly generated head scratches when Stanford hired him away from San Diego.

I don't recall any head scratching by me or my Stanford friends.  Just fist-pumping.  Not that any of us expected or predicted his success.  More along the lines of anybody with a pulse would have been better than his predecessor.

[Bruce Wang]

Harbaugh mostly generated head scratches when Stanford hired him away from San Diego.

I don't recall any head scratching by me or my Stanford friends.  Just fist-pumping.  Not that any of us expected or predicted his success.  More along the lines of anybody with a pulse would have been better than his predecessor.

[FarmBoy]

I honestly can't remember my reaction when he was hired. My thoughts and feelings for Harbaugh have swung so wildly over the past 6 years. I am pretty sure I was a little nervous about the "character" issue given his DUI in San Diego. He's a great coach when he's on your sideline, but I can see why people would be hoping for him to fail from the outside, and therefore not look to favorably on any advancement he receives. I was probably mostly relieved that anyone would take the job given the state Walt left it.

But any way you look at it, hiring Harbaugh seemed like a role of the dice. 2 years as an NFL QB coach and 3 years at non-scholarship USD was all he really had. Of course, people were also scratching their heads when he signed something like 15 Tight Ends in a single recruiting class, and that seemed to work out okay. Everything connected to Harbaugh involves some level of head scratching but then you just shrug your shoulders and jump on the bandwagon, cause the guy has the touch.

[FarmBoy]

I honestly can't remember my reaction when he was hired. My thoughts and feelings for Harbaugh have swung so wildly over the past 6 years. I am pretty sure I was a little nervous about the "character" issue given his DUI in San Diego. He's a great coach when he's on your sideline, but I can see why people would be hoping for him to fail from the outside, and therefore not look to favorably on any advancement he receives. I was probably mostly relieved that anyone would take the job given the state Walt left it.

But any way you look at it, hiring Harbaugh seemed like a role of the dice. 2 years as an NFL QB coach and 3 years at non-scholarship USD was all he really had. Of course, people were also scratching their heads when he signed something like 15 Tight Ends in a single recruiting class, and that seemed to work out okay. Everything connected to Harbaugh involves some level of head scratching but then you just shrug your shoulders and jump on the bandwagon, cause the guy has the touch.

[terry]

My reaction to Harbaugh's hiring was that he had a great record at San Diego, but it was a lower level and there's always the question about whether it will translate to the next step up. So, I would say I was cautiously hopeful.

[terry]

My reaction to Harbaugh's hiring was that he had a great record at San Diego, but it was a lower level and there's always the question about whether it will translate to the next step up. So, I would say I was cautiously hopeful.

[Nan3cy]

My most positive reaction when Harbaugh was hired was, thank God we don't have T.eevens or Wlat any more... I too was concerned that EUTM's success as USD wouldn't translate to D-1. I was delighted to be wrong.

[Nan3cy]

My most positive reaction when Harbaugh was hired was, thank God we don't have T.eevens or Wlat any more... I too was concerned that EUTM's success as USD wouldn't translate to D-1. I was delighted to be wrong.

[Redrum]

but none of the other candidates-- or at least the names that got thrown around as guys under consideration-- inspired much confidence or enthusiasm.  I think former Stanford WR James Lofton was reported as the other "finalist."

I give Bowlsby full credit for knowing what type of coach it would take to bring Stanford out of free-fall.

A trip down memory lane:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/STANFORD-HAS-ITS-MAN-Cardinal-hire-ex-QB-2482702.php

[Redrum]

but none of the other candidates-- or at least the names that got thrown around as guys under consideration-- inspired much confidence or enthusiasm.  I think former Stanford WR James Lofton was reported as the other "finalist."

I give Bowlsby full credit for knowing what type of coach it would take to bring Stanford out of free-fall.

A trip down memory lane:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/STANFORD-HAS-ITS-MAN-Cardinal-hire-ex-QB-2482702.php

[FarmBoy]

A trip down memory lane:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ST...482702.php

It's too bad the comments section appears to be cleared out. It would be interesting to see what the casual fan (or Internet troll) reaction was.

[FarmBoy]

A trip down memory lane:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ST...482702.php

It's too bad the comments section appears to be cleared out. It would be interesting to see what the casual fan (or Internet troll) reaction was.

[Leftcoast]

Here's a second trip down the Harbaugh hiring memory lane .... this is a column our favorite Mercury News Blogger would probably like to forget.  Enjoy Jon Wilner's, "Are these guys the best Stanford can do?" in the full bright light of hindsight.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegespor...rd-can-do/

Some of my favorite lines:

"If there isn’t someone else out there…yikes!"  (Thanks Jon, but we're glad we took him.)

"That’s a pretty big jump, from USD to the Pac-10, from matching wits with the head coach at Morehead State to staring down Jeff Tedford and Pete Carroll."  (It indeed turned out to be a pretty big jump - for Tedford and Carroll!)

"Heck, San Jose State assistant/Stanford grad Tom Williams has as much going for him as these guys, if not more."  (I love Williams but is he now coaching the SF 49ers?  (Linebackers coach at Florida International))

"Maybe the next coach turns the Cardinal around in two years, makes Bowlsby look like a genius, makes Stanford relevant again, makes me look foolish.  It wouldn’t be the first time. "  (Jon got one right!)

[Leftcoast]

Here's a second trip down the Harbaugh hiring memory lane .... this is a column our favorite Mercury News Blogger would probably like to forget.  Enjoy Jon Wilner's, "Are these guys the best Stanford can do?" in the full bright light of hindsight.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegespor...rd-can-do/

Some of my favorite lines:

"If there isn’t someone else out there…yikes!"  (Thanks Jon, but we're glad we took him.)

"That’s a pretty big jump, from USD to the Pac-10, from matching wits with the head coach at Morehead State to staring down Jeff Tedford and Pete Carroll."  (It indeed turned out to be a pretty big jump - for Tedford and Carroll!)

"Heck, San Jose State assistant/Stanford grad Tom Williams has as much going for him as these guys, if not more."  (I love Williams but is he now coaching the SF 49ers?  (Linebackers coach at Florida International))

"Maybe the next coach turns the Cardinal around in two years, makes Bowlsby look like a genius, makes Stanford relevant again, makes me look foolish.  It wouldn’t be the first time. "  (Jon got one right!)

[washingtonismoney]

Interesting what-if -- we hired Mike Riley instead of Buddy Teevens. It's somewhat incomprehensible that anyone could compare resumes at the time and decide Teevens was better than Riley, but there you have it (unless Riley made demands that wouldn't fly with the administration -- financial, academic, or otherwise.)

Riley would probably have been a good fit culturally -- he strikes me as similar to Shaw -- but I wonder about the whole football thing. Any thoughts?

[washingtonismoney]

Interesting what-if -- we hired Mike Riley instead of Buddy Teevens. It's somewhat incomprehensible that anyone could compare resumes at the time and decide Teevens was better than Riley, but there you have it (unless Riley made demands that wouldn't fly with the administration -- financial, academic, or otherwise.)

Riley would probably have been a good fit culturally -- he strikes me as similar to Shaw -- but I wonder about the whole football thing. Any thoughts?

[Nan3cy]

Riley was just coming out of the NFL. I'm sure he would have expected a lot more than we were planning to pay. Also, he'd been a flop in the NFL. I know, I know. Buddy had been even worse at Tulane, but that had been somewhat laundered by working -- or so it was thought -- as Steve Spurrier's offensive coordinator. Remember also that Tulane had taken off like a rocket the season after Buddy was fired. In retrospect, that seems obviously a big negative, but at the time, some people thought it meant Tulane had fired him a year early, just as all his program-building was about to pay off.

Not trying to defend his hiring over Riley, or his hiring, period. Only to say that Teevens wasn't so obviously a blunder then as we would recognize later.

I remember Terry being very worried about the possibility of hiring Teevens. He saw the train wreck coming long before the guy got here.

[Nan3cy]

Riley was just coming out of the NFL. I'm sure he would have expected a lot more than we were planning to pay. Also, he'd been a flop in the NFL. I know, I know. Buddy had been even worse at Tulane, but that had been somewhat laundered by working -- or so it was thought -- as Steve Spurrier's offensive coordinator. Remember also that Tulane had taken off like a rocket the season after Buddy was fired. In retrospect, that seems obviously a big negative, but at the time, some people thought it meant Tulane had fired him a year early, just as all his program-building was about to pay off.

Not trying to defend his hiring over Riley, or his hiring, period. Only to say that Teevens wasn't so obviously a blunder then as we would recognize later.

I remember Terry being very worried about the possibility of hiring Teevens. He saw the train wreck coming long before the guy got here.

[terry]

I remember Terry being very worried about the possibility of hiring Teevens. He saw the train wreck coming long before the guy got here.

Yes, I was very worried about Teevens. When the Teevens rumor surfaced, I did some research, then I immediately sent an impassioned e-mail to Ted Leland pleading with him not to hire Teevens. I can remember sitting in my office one evening in January 2002 writing that e-mail. I guess that shows you how much influence I have.  :P 

After Teevens was hired, I did my best to find positives in his record. I argued that he should be given a fair chance before we decided he was a failure. I thought there were some mitigating circumstances in year 1 (injuries, etc.), and I thought that in fairness he needed to be given more time. So I did not get on the "fire Buddy" bandwagon in year 1. It took me until the latter part of year 2 before I gave up on him.

In the latter part of year 3, I was part of a small group of fans who met with Leland to urge him to fire Teevens. I think he already had made up his mind that Buddy was not going to have success at Stanford. I wasn't surprised when he fired Teevens a couple weeks later.

[terry]

I remember Terry being very worried about the possibility of hiring Teevens. He saw the train wreck coming long before the guy got here.

Yes, I was very worried about Teevens. When the Teevens rumor surfaced, I did some research, then I immediately sent an impassioned e-mail to Ted Leland pleading with him not to hire Teevens. I can remember sitting in my office one evening in January 2002 writing that e-mail. I guess that shows you how much influence I have.  :P 

After Teevens was hired, I did my best to find positives in his record. I argued that he should be given a fair chance before we decided he was a failure. I thought there were some mitigating circumstances in year 1 (injuries, etc.), and I thought that in fairness he needed to be given more time. So I did not get on the "fire Buddy" bandwagon in year 1. It took me until the latter part of year 2 before I gave up on him.

In the latter part of year 3, I was part of a small group of fans who met with Leland to urge him to fire Teevens. I think he already had made up his mind that Buddy was not going to have success at Stanford. I wasn't surprised when he fired Teevens a couple weeks later.

[Redrum]

It was kind of spooky seeing the positive comments about Bobby Hauck.  By all accounts he ran a program up in Missoula that just cranked out small college championships at will...but would countenance practically any behavior by his football players, including sexual assault.  In a town that could/should be in love with their football team,  his merry men managed to create a brobdingnagian town/gown split that left some people furious.

" During Hauck's tenure, the Montana Kaimin reported 11 separate violent incidents involving Grizzly football players. Charges against student athletes ranged from assault to domestic violence to murder. It is of note that the murder charge resulted in a full acquittal."

  He left for UNLV,  in a town where Hauck's permissive management style fits in.  Sort of.  He is 6 and 32 in three years. 

[Redrum]

It was kind of spooky seeing the positive comments about Bobby Hauck.  By all accounts he ran a program up in Missoula that just cranked out small college championships at will...but would countenance practically any behavior by his football players, including sexual assault.  In a town that could/should be in love with their football team,  his merry men managed to create a brobdingnagian town/gown split that left some people furious.

" During Hauck's tenure, the Montana Kaimin reported 11 separate violent incidents involving Grizzly football players. Charges against student athletes ranged from assault to domestic violence to murder. It is of note that the murder charge resulted in a full acquittal."

  He left for UNLV,  in a town where Hauck's permissive management style fits in.  Sort of.  He is 6 and 32 in three years. 

[Treebound]

I too applaud Bowlsby for stepping up to the plate and firing the No Fault Quick Kicker.  I only wish Muir would have done the same with Dawkins after this season's debacle. 

As for Harbaugh, there were plenty of us that were concerned that this was the best we could do.  USD who?  Yes, he had ties to Stanford and Paly and had a nice NFL run, but this was it?  A number of us spoke with Bowlsby about lifting the IRS form 990 ceiling and taking the hire seriously.  It was only fitting that Harbaugh's tremendous success would break that barrier for his own sake (and for ours).    Yes, all credit to Bob on this one and I'll forever be thankful for his willingness to act.

[Treebound]

I too applaud Bowlsby for stepping up to the plate and firing the No Fault Quick Kicker.  I only wish Muir would have done the same with Dawkins after this season's debacle. 

As for Harbaugh, there were plenty of us that were concerned that this was the best we could do.  USD who?  Yes, he had ties to Stanford and Paly and had a nice NFL run, but this was it?  A number of us spoke with Bowlsby about lifting the IRS form 990 ceiling and taking the hire seriously.  It was only fitting that Harbaugh's tremendous success would break that barrier for his own sake (and for ours).    Yes, all credit to Bob on this one and I'll forever be thankful for his willingness to act.

[fullmetal]

I wonder how much of the Pac-12 to NFL pipeline is due to pay inequity between the two leagues.  The $EC probably pays as well as the NFL, I'd presume...

[fullmetal]

I wonder how much of the Pac-12 to NFL pipeline is due to pay inequity between the two leagues.  The $EC probably pays as well as the NFL, I'd presume...

[FarmBoy]

I wonder how much of the Pac-12 to NFL pipeline is due to pay inequity between the two leagues.  The $EC probably pays as well as the NFL, I'd presume...

That was a point raised by Miller in his follow-up on Maisel's piece. According to one web site, on the top coaching salaries, of the top 20 salaries, 2 are from the Pac12 and 7 are from the SEC. The Pac12 doesn't show up until #12 (Lane Kiffin.) I assume they are just guessing on the private school salaries. Shaw is supposedly #25 at $2.5M, $3M below Saban's $5.5M

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm

[FarmBoy]

I wonder how much of the Pac-12 to NFL pipeline is due to pay inequity between the two leagues.  The $EC probably pays as well as the NFL, I'd presume...

That was a point raised by Miller in his follow-up on Maisel's piece. According to one web site, on the top coaching salaries, of the top 20 salaries, 2 are from the Pac12 and 7 are from the SEC. The Pac12 doesn't show up until #12 (Lane Kiffin.) I assume they are just guessing on the private school salaries. Shaw is supposedly #25 at $2.5M, $3M below Saban's $5.5M

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm

[stupac2]

Aren't there ways to find out the pay of the private-school coaches? I believe someone above alluded to it, but non-profits need to disclose their 5 highest-paid employees. I'd imagine Kiffin would be on there, as well as Shaw now. Of course, that lags behind, I don't know when the most recent info is from.

[stupac2]

Aren't there ways to find out the pay of the private-school coaches? I believe someone above alluded to it, but non-profits need to disclose their 5 highest-paid employees. I'd imagine Kiffin would be on there, as well as Shaw now. Of course, that lags behind, I don't know when the most recent info is from.

[washingtonismoney]

Aren't there ways to find out the pay of the private-school coaches? I believe someone above alluded to it, but non-profits need to disclose their 5 highest-paid employees. I'd imagine Daniel Tosh's evil twin would be on there, as well as Shaw now. Of course, that lags behind, I don't know when the most recent info is from.

Lags pretty considerably. We found out about Harbaugh's 2010 pay in 2012, so we should figure out Shaw's first-year pay this year (which was one contract re-working ago, of course.)

[washingtonismoney]

Aren't there ways to find out the pay of the private-school coaches? I believe someone above alluded to it, but non-profits need to disclose their 5 highest-paid employees. I'd imagine Daniel Tosh's evil twin would be on there, as well as Shaw now. Of course, that lags behind, I don't know when the most recent info is from.

Lags pretty considerably. We found out about Harbaugh's 2010 pay in 2012, so we should figure out Shaw's first-year pay this year (which was one contract re-working ago, of course.)

[FarmBoy]

But do those returns include fund provided by outside groups (e.g., didn't Nike pay a brobdingnagian portion of Tedford's contract?)

[FarmBoy]

But do those returns include fund provided by outside groups (e.g., didn't Nike pay a brobdingnagian portion of Tedford's contract?)