[Farm93]

I agree with Enzo.  No nickname is better than "Cardinal."  Let a thousand flowers bloom and call them whatever you like on the day, be it Trees or Nerds or Robber Barons or even Cardinal or Indians.

BTW--re the comment above about FSU and their "chop cheer," do we still do the "Give them the axe, the axe, the axe" cheer when we play the 59ers?  As a matter of fact, do we still call it "The Big Game?"

Yes we do have the "axe" cheer, and it must seem odd to any casual fan.  Why would a school with a tree dancing on the field want to have a cheer that references the use of an axe?  Ironies...

FWIW - This was and will always be the problem with insensitive mascots.  No matter how the institution might view and use that symbol, the reality is the opponents will demonize it.  So for UCB when they copied the axe cheer they were figuratively claiming to kill Indians.  An image of an Indian looking doll tied to a fountain with some UCB band member chopping at it with an Axe would just be terrible.  The Axe thing is kind of funny with a stuffed teddy bear, less funny with a doll dressed like an Indian.

[Farm93]

I agree with Enzo.  No nickname is better than "Cardinal."  Let a thousand flowers bloom and call them whatever you like on the day, be it Trees or Nerds or Robber Barons or even Cardinal or Indians.

BTW--re the comment above about FSU and their "chop cheer," do we still do the "Give them the axe, the axe, the axe" cheer when we play the 59ers?  As a matter of fact, do we still call it "The Big Game?"

Yes we do have the "axe" cheer, and it must seem odd to any casual fan.  Why would a school with a tree dancing on the field want to have a cheer that references the use of an axe?  Ironies...

FWIW - This was and will always be the problem with insensitive mascots.  No matter how the institution might view and use that symbol, the reality is the opponents will demonize it.  So for UCB when they copied the axe cheer they were figuratively claiming to kill Indians.  An image of an Indian looking doll tied to a fountain with some UCB band member chopping at it with an Axe would just be terrible.  The Axe thing is kind of funny with a stuffed teddy bear, less funny with a doll dressed like an Indian.

[Spiny_Norman]

I think we revisit this story every so often, but it cannot hurt to retell it.  This is my memory of the Great Mascot Debate.  Others should edit/correct my faulty memory.

As many know, the Stanford Student Senate voted to drop Indians in 1972 after objections by Native Americans.  The administration agreed.  The default substitute was Cardinals (plural).  No one seemed happy with this mascot.  For 8 years, a debate played out on campus.  I arrived on campus as a frosh in 1979 just in time for this debate to reach a head.

In 1980, Donald Kennedy was installed as the new president, replacing Richard Lyman who had dropped Indians.  Kennedy seemed interested in resolving the mascot debate.  Or perhaps the students themselves saw an opportunity to reach a more acceptable result with a different president.  In fall, 1981, a campus wide election/referendum was held about the mascot.  The three names on the ballot - Cardinals, Gryphons (for the statues in front of Encina Gym) and Sequoias (for El Palo Alto).  The athletes advocated for Gryphons (because it is Stanford, the common spelling "griffins" would not do).  Sequoias seemed to capture some interest, but it could be problematic in a conference with Huskies, Bruins and Bears.  Imagine a headline of "Huskies Pee On Sequoias." Popular write in choices were Thunder Chickens, Robber Barons and Steaming Manhole Covers. 

I don't even recall the election results.  But President Kennedy declared that the results were advisory only, not binding (which had never been evident during the lead up to what was an emotional campaign).  In the great tradition of the Cornell Big Red and the Harvard Crimson, Stanford would henceforth be known as the Cardinal (singular).  Once again, no one was happy with this mascot.  What did that mean?  The Band did a Parody Show with tributes to cardinal numbers, cardinal the religious figure and the cardinal sins.

I voted in the current poll to retain Cardinal.  Over the years, Cardinal singular has grown on me.  It leaves creative room for other, complementary identities like Nerd Nation and the Tree (which I am sure everyone knows is the Band's mascot, not the school's).  And as Terry has pointed out, Cardinal has many years of history associated with the University.  I will be cheering this Saturday with all I have for the good guys in Cardinal and White over the heathens in Cardinal and Gold.

[Spiny_Norman]

I think we revisit this story every so often, but it cannot hurt to retell it.  This is my memory of the Great Mascot Debate.  Others should edit/correct my faulty memory.

As many know, the Stanford Student Senate voted to drop Indians in 1972 after objections by Native Americans.  The administration agreed.  The default substitute was Cardinals (plural).  No one seemed happy with this mascot.  For 8 years, a debate played out on campus.  I arrived on campus as a frosh in 1979 just in time for this debate to reach a head.

In 1980, Donald Kennedy was installed as the new president, replacing Richard Lyman who had dropped Indians.  Kennedy seemed interested in resolving the mascot debate.  Or perhaps the students themselves saw an opportunity to reach a more acceptable result with a different president.  In fall, 1981, a campus wide election/referendum was held about the mascot.  The three names on the ballot - Cardinals, Gryphons (for the statues in front of Encina Gym) and Sequoias (for El Palo Alto).  The athletes advocated for Gryphons (because it is Stanford, the common spelling "griffins" would not do).  Sequoias seemed to capture some interest, but it could be problematic in a conference with Huskies, Bruins and Bears.  Imagine a headline of "Huskies Pee On Sequoias." Popular write in choices were Thunder Chickens, Robber Barons and Steaming Manhole Covers. 

I don't even recall the election results.  But President Kennedy declared that the results were advisory only, not binding (which had never been evident during the lead up to what was an emotional campaign).  In the great tradition of the Cornell Big Red and the Harvard Crimson, Stanford would henceforth be known as the Cardinal (singular).  Once again, no one was happy with this mascot.  What did that mean?  The Band did a Parody Show with tributes to cardinal numbers, cardinal the religious figure and the cardinal sins.

I voted in the current poll to retain Cardinal.  Over the years, Cardinal singular has grown on me.  It leaves creative room for other, complementary identities like Nerd Nation and the Tree (which I am sure everyone knows is the Band's mascot, not the school's).  And as Terry has pointed out, Cardinal has many years of history associated with the University.  I will be cheering this Saturday with all I have for the good guys in Cardinal and White over the heathens in Cardinal and Gold.

[CrazedZooChimp]

We should cut a deal with Parker Bros. and make the Monopoly Man our sideline mascot.

And the team oculd be called the 1-Percenters. Most of the 59er fan base would drop dead of pure rage.

Of course, it's not like the Robber Baron mascot hasn't been used before.  Major hockey fans are familiar with the Cleveland Barons.  Originally an AHL team, before becoming an NHL team, and then interestingly enough moving to California to become the Seals.  Their logo during the original days was this:


Although it's not as fun as the reborn Barons of the early 2000s who were a Sharks affiliate and had this logo, which I think is one of my favorite images ever:


So there is precedent for using Robber Barons as a mascot/logo.

Of course, the other day a friend and I were joking we should go back to the Indians, but to more accurately reflect the demographics of Silicon Valley we should use a logo like this:

[CrazedZooChimp]

We should cut a deal with Parker Bros. and make the Monopoly Man our sideline mascot.

And the team oculd be called the 1-Percenters. Most of the 59er fan base would drop dead of pure rage.

Of course, it's not like the Robber Baron mascot hasn't been used before.  Major hockey fans are familiar with the Cleveland Barons.  Originally an AHL team, before becoming an NHL team, and then interestingly enough moving to California to become the Seals.  Their logo during the original days was this:


Although it's not as fun as the reborn Barons of the early 2000s who were a Sharks affiliate and had this logo, which I think is one of my favorite images ever:


So there is precedent for using Robber Barons as a mascot/logo.

Of course, the other day a friend and I were joking we should go back to the Indians, but to more accurately reflect the demographics of Silicon Valley we should use a logo like this:

[CornFed]

Great post,CZC!  Excellent research, interesting details and a hilarious finale.  I'd give you multiple thumbs up, but I can't due to regulatory constraints.

[CornFed]

Great post,CZC!  Excellent research, interesting details and a hilarious finale.  I'd give you multiple thumbs up, but I can't due to regulatory constraints.

[terry]

I think we revisit this story every so often, but it cannot hurt to retell it.  This is my memory of the Great Mascot Debate.  Others should edit/correct my faulty memory.

As many know, the Stanford Student Senate voted to drop Indians in 1972 after objections by Native Americans.  The administration agreed.  The default substitute was Cardinals (plural).  No one seemed happy with this mascot.  For 8 years, a debate played out on campus.  I arrived on campus as a frosh in 1979 just in time for this debate to reach a head.

In 1980, Donald Kennedy was installed as the new president, replacing Richard Lyman who had dropped Indians.  Kennedy seemed interested in resolving the mascot debate.  Or perhaps the students themselves saw an opportunity to reach a more acceptable result with a different president.  In fall, 1981, a campus wide election/referendum was held about the mascot.  The three names on the ballot - Cardinals, Gryphons (for the statues in front of Encina Gym) and Sequoias (for El Palo Alto).  The athletes advocated for Gryphons (because it is Stanford, the common spelling "griffins" would not do).  Sequoias seemed to capture some interest, but it could be problematic in a conference with Huskies, Bruins and 59ers.  Imagine a headline of "Huskies Pee On Sequoias." Popular write in choices were Thunder Chickens, Robber Barons and Steaming Manhole Covers. 

I don't even recall the election results.  But President Kennedy declared that the results were advisory only, not binding (which had never been evident during the lead up to what was an emotional campaign).  In the great tradition of the Cornell Big Red and the Harvard Crimson, Stanford would henceforth be known as the Cardinal (singular).  Once again, no one was happy with this mascot.  What did that mean?  The Band did a Parody Show with tributes to cardinal numbers, cardinal the religious figure and the cardinal sins.

I voted in the current poll to retain Cardinal.  Over the years, Cardinal singular has grown on me.  It leaves creative room for other, complementary identities like Nerd Nation and the Tree (which I am sure everyone knows is the Band's mascot, not the school's).  And as Terry has pointed out, Cardinal has many years of history associated with the University.  I will be cheering this Saturday with all I have for the good guys in Cardinal and White over the heathens in Cardinal and Gold.

Good summary. One addition -- There were two student votes on the mascot issue during the 1975-76 school year. I believe the votes were conducted by the Daily, but it might have been the ASSU. The first vote was on restoring the Indian. That lost by a large margin. The second vote was on a new name. As I recall, the names on the ballot were Robber Barons, Sequoias, Trees, Cardinals (plural), and one or two others. The final vote ranked them in pretty much that order, I believe. The vote was pretty close among the top four choices. If Sequoias and Trees had not split the vote, it seems likely that one or the other of them would have won, and we might have a different mascot today. Of course, Robber Barons had no chance of approval by the university. So we continued to be known unofficially as the Cardinals until Kennedy chose the Cardinal in 1981.

[terry]

I think we revisit this story every so often, but it cannot hurt to retell it.  This is my memory of the Great Mascot Debate.  Others should edit/correct my faulty memory.

As many know, the Stanford Student Senate voted to drop Indians in 1972 after objections by Native Americans.  The administration agreed.  The default substitute was Cardinals (plural).  No one seemed happy with this mascot.  For 8 years, a debate played out on campus.  I arrived on campus as a frosh in 1979 just in time for this debate to reach a head.

In 1980, Donald Kennedy was installed as the new president, replacing Richard Lyman who had dropped Indians.  Kennedy seemed interested in resolving the mascot debate.  Or perhaps the students themselves saw an opportunity to reach a more acceptable result with a different president.  In fall, 1981, a campus wide election/referendum was held about the mascot.  The three names on the ballot - Cardinals, Gryphons (for the statues in front of Encina Gym) and Sequoias (for El Palo Alto).  The athletes advocated for Gryphons (because it is Stanford, the common spelling "griffins" would not do).  Sequoias seemed to capture some interest, but it could be problematic in a conference with Huskies, Bruins and 59ers.  Imagine a headline of "Huskies Pee On Sequoias." Popular write in choices were Thunder Chickens, Robber Barons and Steaming Manhole Covers. 

I don't even recall the election results.  But President Kennedy declared that the results were advisory only, not binding (which had never been evident during the lead up to what was an emotional campaign).  In the great tradition of the Cornell Big Red and the Harvard Crimson, Stanford would henceforth be known as the Cardinal (singular).  Once again, no one was happy with this mascot.  What did that mean?  The Band did a Parody Show with tributes to cardinal numbers, cardinal the religious figure and the cardinal sins.

I voted in the current poll to retain Cardinal.  Over the years, Cardinal singular has grown on me.  It leaves creative room for other, complementary identities like Nerd Nation and the Tree (which I am sure everyone knows is the Band's mascot, not the school's).  And as Terry has pointed out, Cardinal has many years of history associated with the University.  I will be cheering this Saturday with all I have for the good guys in Cardinal and White over the heathens in Cardinal and Gold.

Good summary. One addition -- There were two student votes on the mascot issue during the 1975-76 school year. I believe the votes were conducted by the Daily, but it might have been the ASSU. The first vote was on restoring the Indian. That lost by a large margin. The second vote was on a new name. As I recall, the names on the ballot were Robber Barons, Sequoias, Trees, Cardinals (plural), and one or two others. The final vote ranked them in pretty much that order, I believe. The vote was pretty close among the top four choices. If Sequoias and Trees had not split the vote, it seems likely that one or the other of them would have won, and we might have a different mascot today. Of course, Robber Barons had no chance of approval by the university. So we continued to be known unofficially as the Cardinals until Kennedy chose the Cardinal in 1981.

[81alum]

Just one more thing...for all those who criticize the ASSU Senate for voting to drop Indians and argue that it should not be up to Associated Students alone--keep in mind that it was the Executive Board of AS who adopted the Indian mascot in 1930.  The decision to drop was procedurally parallel to the decision to adopt. 

I was on campus for the 1981 vote and remember being amused by Robber Barons and not impressed with Gryphons, but I just wanted the color Cardinal and that seems to be what we wound up with.  I don't remember if it was an option on the ballot.  A lot of athletes liked the Gryphons because there were statues of Gryphons near Encina, as I recall, and they had become associated with the athletics department.

[81alum]

Just one more thing...for all those who criticize the ASSU Senate for voting to drop Indians and argue that it should not be up to Associated Students alone--keep in mind that it was the Executive Board of AS who adopted the Indian mascot in 1930.  The decision to drop was procedurally parallel to the decision to adopt. 

I was on campus for the 1981 vote and remember being amused by Robber Barons and not impressed with Gryphons, but I just wanted the color Cardinal and that seems to be what we wound up with.  I don't remember if it was an option on the ballot.  A lot of athletes liked the Gryphons because there were statues of Gryphons near Encina, as I recall, and they had become associated with the athletics department.

[Kathy]

There were two student votes on the mascot issue during the 1975-76 school year. I believe the votes were conducted by the Daily, but it might have been the ASSU. The first vote was on restoring the Indian. That lost by a large margin. The second vote was on a new name. As I recall, the names on the ballot were Robber Barons, Sequoias, Trees, Cardinals (plural), and one or two others. The final vote ranked them in pretty much that order, I believe. The vote was pretty close among the top four choices. If Sequoias and Trees had not split the vote, it seems likely that one or the other of them would have won, and we might have a different mascot today. Of course, Robber Barons had no chance of approval by the university. So we continued to be known unofficially as the Cardinals until Kennedy chose the Cardinal in 1981.

That 1975 mascot vote was conducted by ASSU, not The Daily. The student referendum in December 1975 included two mascot questions. One asked for a vote on returning the Indian mascot (defeated 69-31 percent). The other mascot question offered seven new mascot names. Robber Barons won with 1,664 votes, followed by Sequoias (1,598), Trees (1,530), Cardinals (1,309), Railroaders (317), Spikes (250) and Huns (207).

The Band had already introduced the Tree as a mascot for the 1975 Big Game the month before the vote. Supporters of Sequoias had pushed their choice on three points: 1) the connection to El Palo Alto; 2) the pro-Indian mascot contingent liked the similarity in name to revered Cherokee chief Sequoya; and 3) the possibility of calling the team Seqs for short with the anticipated aural mischief that could result for game announcers ("Seqs recover the ball").

Of course, the administration ignored the referendum results and continued to refer to teams as the cardinal color. The athletic department decided to shun all mascot names for the time being and referred to the teams simply as Stanford.

[Kathy]

There were two student votes on the mascot issue during the 1975-76 school year. I believe the votes were conducted by the Daily, but it might have been the ASSU. The first vote was on restoring the Indian. That lost by a large margin. The second vote was on a new name. As I recall, the names on the ballot were Robber Barons, Sequoias, Trees, Cardinals (plural), and one or two others. The final vote ranked them in pretty much that order, I believe. The vote was pretty close among the top four choices. If Sequoias and Trees had not split the vote, it seems likely that one or the other of them would have won, and we might have a different mascot today. Of course, Robber Barons had no chance of approval by the university. So we continued to be known unofficially as the Cardinals until Kennedy chose the Cardinal in 1981.

That 1975 mascot vote was conducted by ASSU, not The Daily. The student referendum in December 1975 included two mascot questions. One asked for a vote on returning the Indian mascot (defeated 69-31 percent). The other mascot question offered seven new mascot names. Robber Barons won with 1,664 votes, followed by Sequoias (1,598), Trees (1,530), Cardinals (1,309), Railroaders (317), Spikes (250) and Huns (207).

The Band had already introduced the Tree as a mascot for the 1975 Big Game the month before the vote. Supporters of Sequoias had pushed their choice on three points: 1) the connection to El Palo Alto; 2) the pro-Indian mascot contingent liked the similarity in name to revered Cherokee chief Sequoya; and 3) the possibility of calling the team Seqs for short with the anticipated aural mischief that could result for game announcers ("Seqs recover the ball").

Of course, the administration ignored the referendum results and continued to refer to teams as the cardinal color. The athletic department decided to shun all mascot names for the time being and referred to the teams simply as Stanford.

[teejers1]

The athletes weren't the only ones who liked Gryphons as a possible mascot.  It is a pretty unique and mythical animal . . . much like Stanford.  That was my vote back in the day.

But today?  Heck, Cardinal is fine (as are all the sub-themes advanced over the years).

As another poster noted, in the end, we are Stanford.

[teejers1]

The athletes weren't the only ones who liked Gryphons as a possible mascot.  It is a pretty unique and mythical animal . . . much like Stanford.  That was my vote back in the day.

But today?  Heck, Cardinal is fine (as are all the sub-themes advanced over the years).

As another poster noted, in the end, we are Stanford.

[yvonne]

I would have liked Gryphons. It was my high school mascot. The other high school's mascot was the Chimeras.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[yvonne]

I would have liked Gryphons. It was my high school mascot. The other high school's mascot was the Chimeras.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Papa John]

Apparently, no one on this board has a clue re: the history of Stanford's mascot. I was watching a show called "Varsity Days" on the Pac-12 Network. Among other things, the show re-airs parts of games from the olden times, and this particularly episode featured the 1958 WSU (or should I say WSC?) football team vs. Stanford and UCLA. The game announcer was none other than a very young Keith Jackson.

In any case, the Pac-12 Network added to the broadcast pop-up messages regarding players and teams, and, after Jackson referred to Stanford as the Indians, one insightful message informed the viewers that Stanford changed its mascot from the Indians to the Trees in 1975.  ???

[Papa John]

Apparently, no one on this board has a clue re: the history of Stanford's mascot. I was watching a show called "Varsity Days" on the Pac-12 Network. Among other things, the show re-airs parts of games from the olden times, and this particularly episode featured the 1958 WSU (or should I say WSC?) football team vs. Stanford and UCLA. The game announcer was none other than a very young Keith Jackson.

In any case, the Pac-12 Network added to the broadcast pop-up messages regarding players and teams, and, after Jackson referred to Stanford as the Indians, one insightful message informed the viewers that Stanford changed its mascot from the Indians to the Trees in 1975.  ???

[BobK]

Of course we all know Stanford does not have a mascot the Band has a tree has their mascot.    :)

[BobK]

Of course we all know Stanford does not have a mascot the Band has a tree has their mascot.    :)

[Hank 91]

Thank you, everyone, for your insight, opinions, and memories related to this mascot issue. I've always felt that one of the strengths of this board and its community is the wide age range and the resulting different perspectives. This thread bares* that out.

*intentionally misspelled for obvious reasons.

[Hank 91]

Thank you, everyone, for your insight, opinions, and memories related to this mascot issue. I've always felt that one of the strengths of this board and its community is the wide age range and the resulting different perspectives. This thread bares* that out.

*intentionally misspelled for obvious reasons.