[martyup]

Do we have a competent backup field goal kicker?  If so, why is JW still kicking FGs?  If not, why not?  After the 2012 Fiesta Bowl fiasco, it seems as if finding a reliable kicker would have been a priority.  Our two losses this season were each by 3 points, and each included missed makeable FGs.

Perhaps Conrad would be better at the shorter FGs and the extra points, leaving JW for the long FGs and the kickoffs.

I'm sure the coaching staff is just as concerned as the Cardinal fan base.  I hope they can solve the problem.

[martyup]

Do we have a competent backup field goal kicker?  If so, why is JW still kicking FGs?  If not, why not?  After the 2012 Fiesta Bowl fiasco, it seems as if finding a reliable kicker would have been a priority.  Our two losses this season were each by 3 points, and each included missed makeable FGs.

Perhaps Conrad would be better at the shorter FGs and the extra points, leaving JW for the long FGs and the kickoffs.

I'm sure the coaching staff is just as concerned as the Cardinal fan base.  I hope they can solve the problem.

[81alum]

Do we have a competent backup field goal kicker?  If so, why is JW still kicking FGs?  If not, why not?  After the 2012 Fiesta Bowl fiasco, it seems as if finding a reliable kicker would have been a priority.  Our two losses this season were each by 3 points, and each included missed makeable FGs.

Perhaps Conrad would be better at the shorter FGs and the extra points, leaving JW for the long FGs and the kickoffs.

I'm sure the coaching staff is just as concerned as the Cardinal fan base.  I hope they can solve the problem.

Yes, this year is troubling.  But let's put it in perspective.

Williamson is Stanford's all time leading point scorer.
His stats are as follows:
2011 68%
2012 63%
2013 82%
2014 55%

In short, this is Stanford's leading point scorer of all time having an absolutely horrible year.  Last year he was incredibly good--but last year was not typical.  This year he is way below all his averages.

Ukropina is 2/4 field goals over his career, with a long of 35.  He was a quarterback in high school until he broke his arm in four places.  So he took up kicking.  He averaged 44 yards a punt, had 90% touchbacks on his kickoffs, went 101/101 on PATS, but try as I might, no one seems to say a word about his field goal kicking in high school.  He was teammates with Kodi Whitfield at Loyola.  He was coached by private kicking coach Chris Sailor, the west coast's main kicking guru.  (Many of the Pac 12 kickers seem to have been coached by him.)  And he never had anything less than an "A" from 6th grade through high school.

I do think Conrad probably deserves a chance, but it can't be an easy decision after everything that Williamson has done.  And of course the coaches know exactly how the two compare in practice.

EDIT:  I just discovered that Conrad kicked 1/8 field goals his senior year in high school.  The one he kicked was 48 yards.  One other person attempted a single field goal for Loyola that year--so Conrad was their man.  Something must have happened after he was recruited by Stanford.  Injury?  But how could he have such a great punting and kickoff range if he were injured?  Why did his accuracy fall apart his senior year?  In his junior year he was 8/14 with a long of 47.

Those high school stats point to a guy with a lot of range but accuracy problems back then.  1/8 while touching back 90%? 

[81alum]

Do we have a competent backup field goal kicker?  If so, why is JW still kicking FGs?  If not, why not?  After the 2012 Fiesta Bowl fiasco, it seems as if finding a reliable kicker would have been a priority.  Our two losses this season were each by 3 points, and each included missed makeable FGs.

Perhaps Conrad would be better at the shorter FGs and the extra points, leaving JW for the long FGs and the kickoffs.

I'm sure the coaching staff is just as concerned as the Cardinal fan base.  I hope they can solve the problem.

Yes, this year is troubling.  But let's put it in perspective.

Williamson is Stanford's all time leading point scorer.
His stats are as follows:
2011 68%
2012 63%
2013 82%
2014 55%

In short, this is Stanford's leading point scorer of all time having an absolutely horrible year.  Last year he was incredibly good--but last year was not typical.  This year he is way below all his averages.

Ukropina is 2/4 field goals over his career, with a long of 35.  He was a quarterback in high school until he broke his arm in four places.  So he took up kicking.  He averaged 44 yards a punt, had 90% touchbacks on his kickoffs, went 101/101 on PATS, but try as I might, no one seems to say a word about his field goal kicking in high school.  He was teammates with Kodi Whitfield at Loyola.  He was coached by private kicking coach Chris Sailor, the west coast's main kicking guru.  (Many of the Pac 12 kickers seem to have been coached by him.)  And he never had anything less than an "A" from 6th grade through high school.

I do think Conrad probably deserves a chance, but it can't be an easy decision after everything that Williamson has done.  And of course the coaches know exactly how the two compare in practice.

EDIT:  I just discovered that Conrad kicked 1/8 field goals his senior year in high school.  The one he kicked was 48 yards.  One other person attempted a single field goal for Loyola that year--so Conrad was their man.  Something must have happened after he was recruited by Stanford.  Injury?  But how could he have such a great punting and kickoff range if he were injured?  Why did his accuracy fall apart his senior year?  In his junior year he was 8/14 with a long of 47.

Those high school stats point to a guy with a lot of range but accuracy problems back then.  1/8 while touching back 90%? 

[jayasena]

Anyone have data on how long the field goal attempts were? I seem to remember he was *very* good in 2011 although the stats don't back that up. Conversely, I don't remember him being being especially good in 2013. Did we try a lot of long ones in 2011? Or is my memory failing me (which, I realize, is the more likely case)?

[jayasena]

Anyone have data on how long the field goal attempts were? I seem to remember he was *very* good in 2011 although the stats don't back that up. Conversely, I don't remember him being being especially good in 2013. Did we try a lot of long ones in 2011? Or is my memory failing me (which, I realize, is the more likely case)?

[martyup]

Anyone have data on how long the field goal attempts were? I seem to remember he was *very* good in 2011 although the stats don't back that up. Conversely, I don't remember him being being especially good in 2013. Did we try a lot of long ones in 2011? Or is my memory failing me (which, I realize, is the more likely case)?

The Fiesta fiasco was the 2011 season.

[martyup]

Anyone have data on how long the field goal attempts were? I seem to remember he was *very* good in 2011 although the stats don't back that up. Conversely, I don't remember him being being especially good in 2013. Did we try a lot of long ones in 2011? Or is my memory failing me (which, I realize, is the more likely case)?

The Fiesta fiasco was the 2011 season.

[81alum]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

[81alum]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

[martyup]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

[martyup]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

[jayasena]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

Thanks 81alum. This sort of confirms my memory of 2011 -- that 40 or less was almost automatic (until the Fiesta bowl). OTOH, my memory of 2013 is confirmed to be wrong.

[jayasena]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

Thanks 81alum. This sort of confirms my memory of 2011 -- that 40 or less was almost automatic (until the Fiesta bowl). OTOH, my memory of 2013 is confirmed to be wrong.

[stupac2]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

Developing a good kicker is hard. There's a reason FGs are so tense in college.

[stupac2]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

Developing a good kicker is hard. There's a reason FGs are so tense in college.

[Leftcoast]

How many scholarships should we burn on kickers?

[Leftcoast]

How many scholarships should we burn on kickers?

[Hey]

*Dead horse warning*

http://espn.go.com/college-football/play...williamson

In 2011, Jordan started the year off 11/12, with the lone miss coming from 47 yards.  He then missed the next three games with a leg injury.  He then was 1/3 before the Fiesta Bowl.  And if I recall correctly, his misses up to and during the Fiesta Bowl were really bad. 

I am really astonished to see how accurate he was in 2013.  I never would have guessed.

[Hey]

*Dead horse warning*

http://espn.go.com/college-football/play...williamson

In 2011, Jordan started the year off 11/12, with the lone miss coming from 47 yards.  He then missed the next three games with a leg injury.  He then was 1/3 before the Fiesta Bowl.  And if I recall correctly, his misses up to and during the Fiesta Bowl were really bad. 

I am really astonished to see how accurate he was in 2013.  I never would have guessed.

[81alum]

Thanks 81alum. This sort of confirms my memory of 2011 -- that 40 or less was almost automatic (until the Fiesta bowl). OTOH, my memory of 2013 is confirmed to be wrong.

His 2011 stats are extremely good if you don't count the Fiesta Bowl.  He had as many misses in the Fiesta Bowl as in the rest of the season combined (he was 1/4 in the bowl.)

[81alum]

Thanks 81alum. This sort of confirms my memory of 2011 -- that 40 or less was almost automatic (until the Fiesta bowl). OTOH, my memory of 2013 is confirmed to be wrong.

His 2011 stats are extremely good if you don't count the Fiesta Bowl.  He had as many misses in the Fiesta Bowl as in the rest of the season combined (he was 1/4 in the bowl.)

[martyup]

How many scholarships should we burn on kickers?

Good question.  At least one?  I think developing a kicker once he's on the Farm is as important as finding a good HS kicker.  What about mining the soccer team?

[martyup]

How many scholarships should we burn on kickers?

Good question.  At least one?  I think developing a kicker once he's on the Farm is as important as finding a good HS kicker.  What about mining the soccer team?

[CowboyIndian]

There's a reason FGs are so tense in college.

Anybody see Oklahoma's kicking game today? See above.

[CowboyIndian]

There's a reason FGs are so tense in college.

Anybody see Oklahoma's kicking game today? See above.

[TrumpCard]

Shaw seems to have had a good number of P/K guys on the team at any given time.  In his first full year of recruiting, 2012, he brought in Ukropina.  In the 2012 season, Shaw had Zychlinski, Williamson, Rhyne, and Ukropina.  In 2013, Shaw brought in Robinson to replace Zychlinski on the roster.  In 2014, Shaw was set to bring on Lekacz, but admissions gave him a thumbs down.  In 2015, Shaw is bringing on Bailey.  One K/P guy per year seems about right.  I am still not thrilled with Shaw's decision to offer Lekacz as a preferred walk-on because that apparently doomed Lekacz' admissions status.  However, it's not like Lekacz is tearing it up at Vandy.  He missed his only FG attempt in game 1, and lost the place kicking job.  He held onto the kickoffs job for a few more games, but now he's just sitting on the bench.  So it's not clear to me that Stanford would be better off with Lekacz as just one more guy on the roster.  I just hope that Bailey is able to hit the ground running as a true freshman and that Ukropina and Robinson improve significantly in the offseason. 

[TrumpCard]

Shaw seems to have had a good number of P/K guys on the team at any given time.  In his first full year of recruiting, 2012, he brought in Ukropina.  In the 2012 season, Shaw had Zychlinski, Williamson, Rhyne, and Ukropina.  In 2013, Shaw brought in Robinson to replace Zychlinski on the roster.  In 2014, Shaw was set to bring on Lekacz, but admissions gave him a thumbs down.  In 2015, Shaw is bringing on Bailey.  One K/P guy per year seems about right.  I am still not thrilled with Shaw's decision to offer Lekacz as a preferred walk-on because that apparently doomed Lekacz' admissions status.  However, it's not like Lekacz is tearing it up at Vandy.  He missed his only FG attempt in game 1, and lost the place kicking job.  He held onto the kickoffs job for a few more games, but now he's just sitting on the bench.  So it's not clear to me that Stanford would be better off with Lekacz as just one more guy on the roster.  I just hope that Bailey is able to hit the ground running as a true freshman and that Ukropina and Robinson improve significantly in the offseason. 

[Stymie]

Bailey looks VERY good.  Fingers crossed.....

[Stymie]

Bailey looks VERY good.  Fingers crossed.....

[Bruce Wang]

You can't look at the overall stats.  You have to focus on the percentages made in high pressure situations.  That's what makes kickers like Adam Vinitari special.

[Bruce Wang]

You can't look at the overall stats.  You have to focus on the percentages made in high pressure situations.  That's what makes kickers like Adam Vinitari special.

[HisKneeWasDown]

I remember watching Williamson his freshman year and thinking "wow, this guy is gonna break the school career scoring record". He's only a freshman + Andrew Luck offense (resulting in lots of PATs) + solid FG %. I should have published my claim on this board... :-)

Yes this year he has been terrible. I But it's hard to take something away from a senior who's had a solid career.

[HisKneeWasDown]

I remember watching Williamson his freshman year and thinking "wow, this guy is gonna break the school career scoring record". He's only a freshman + Andrew Luck offense (resulting in lots of PATs) + solid FG %. I should have published my claim on this board... :-)

Yes this year he has been terrible. I But it's hard to take something away from a senior who's had a solid career.

[Mick]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

Is it the same holder and long snapper?

[Mick]

Williamson
Year    1-19  20-29  30-39  40-49  50+
2014      0        1-2    5-7    0-2    0  long 35 blocked 1
2013    1-1      7-7    7-8    4-4    0-2
2012      0        5-7    8-10  4-8    0-2
2011      0        4-4    7-9    2-6    0   

Basically, last year, if you throw away the two he tried from 50+ yards, he was almost perfect.

This year, he has missed five, but if he were having an average year in the various distance categories he would have missed 2 or 3, and one of his misses was blocked.  Also, this year, he has had far fewer opportunities at chip shots.  He is not as good as 2012, but he is also not that far off.  And it does not seem that Ukropina's historical strength is field goal accuracy.

Is it the same holder and long snapper?

[StanFan88]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

^ x 1,000,000,000

[StanFan88]

Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

^ x 1,000,000,000

[Stymie]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10909.msg102515#msg102515 date=1413592462]
Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

^ x 1,000,000,000
[/quote]

-1

https://twitter.com/HustedKicking/status...6996137984

[Stymie]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10909.msg102515#msg102515 date=1413592462]
Nice analysis 81.  The question remains why we haven't developed another competent D1 kicker.  JW is gone next year and it doesn't sound like CU is a viable replacement.  Are there any other kickers on the team?  I don't see any on the depth chart.

^ x 1,000,000,000
[/quote]

-1

https://twitter.com/HustedKicking/status...6996137984