[Mick]

[quote author=leftcoast link=topic=12176.msg119254#msg119254 date=1432765800]
We (the USA) are hardly squeaky clean here.  There were allegations after both the Salt Lake City and Atlanta games that the U.S. organizing committees participated in bribery in some level.

That's for sure.  However, the other countries are not threatening to jail the officials.

The US had a bid for 2018 but after "discussions" with UEFA and FIFA elected to drop their 2018 bid to improve their chances for a successful 2022 bid.

It was not as if the USA was some innocent sitting off on their own unfamiliar with the process.

I have very little love for FIFA or the IOC, but recognize that it would be very hard to not sell my vote for 7 figures if I lived in some of these developing nations with no real chance of ever hosting.  China, Canada, Germany, USA, Qatar?  Who cares?  Which one is offering the most money? 

I can easily see how that would happen.  And in a lot of the countries that idea of a monetary incentive is not really that illegal.
[/quote]

So how did we get the World Cup in 1994?  Was the sport squeaky clean at that time?

[Mick]

[quote author=leftcoast link=topic=12176.msg119254#msg119254 date=1432765800]
We (the USA) are hardly squeaky clean here.  There were allegations after both the Salt Lake City and Atlanta games that the U.S. organizing committees participated in bribery in some level.

That's for sure.  However, the other countries are not threatening to jail the officials.

The US had a bid for 2018 but after "discussions" with UEFA and FIFA elected to drop their 2018 bid to improve their chances for a successful 2022 bid.

It was not as if the USA was some innocent sitting off on their own unfamiliar with the process.

I have very little love for FIFA or the IOC, but recognize that it would be very hard to not sell my vote for 7 figures if I lived in some of these developing nations with no real chance of ever hosting.  China, Canada, Germany, USA, Qatar?  Who cares?  Which one is offering the most money? 

I can easily see how that would happen.  And in a lot of the countries that idea of a monetary incentive is not really that illegal.
[/quote]

So how did we get the World Cup in 1994?  Was the sport squeaky clean at that time?

[dabigv13]

I'm glad that Switzerland and the US are acting on this, I think Blatter will finally get taken down by this. Like in The Wire, now it's time to follow the money, and my sense is that the DOJ will follow it as far as it goes. As some articles have pointed out, it's not unbelievable that this investigation, which has been going on for several years, was on the radar of Barack Obama and he was aware of it when he selected the new AG to basically be the closer on it. As perhaps the first major major duty as AG, this has a lot of political clout behind it.


I hadn't really considered what this will mean when it comes to future US hosting. Then again, we've hosted relatively recently (in WC terms), so it's not like we're due anytime soon.


I hope beyond hope that the Russia and Qatar selections will be reversed as well, because I really want to go to the next two World Cups but not if they're in Russia (well I'd consider it) or Qatar (F*ck that!). I'm doubtful of that though, considering the likely legal morass that would plunge the world into (Qatar: you mean we spent billions and killed thousands of immigrant workers for nothing?!?)

[dabigv13]

I'm glad that Switzerland and the US are acting on this, I think Blatter will finally get taken down by this. Like in The Wire, now it's time to follow the money, and my sense is that the DOJ will follow it as far as it goes. As some articles have pointed out, it's not unbelievable that this investigation, which has been going on for several years, was on the radar of Barack Obama and he was aware of it when he selected the new AG to basically be the closer on it. As perhaps the first major major duty as AG, this has a lot of political clout behind it.


I hadn't really considered what this will mean when it comes to future US hosting. Then again, we've hosted relatively recently (in WC terms), so it's not like we're due anytime soon.


I hope beyond hope that the Russia and Qatar selections will be reversed as well, because I really want to go to the next two World Cups but not if they're in Russia (well I'd consider it) or Qatar (F*ck that!). I'm doubtful of that though, considering the likely legal morass that would plunge the world into (Qatar: you mean we spent billions and killed thousands of immigrant workers for nothing?!?)

[Farm93]

So how did we get the World Cup in 1994?  Was the sport squeaky clean at that time?

FIFA officials were pretty clear about their intentions at that time, and everything since seems to have been consistent with the statements at the time.  FIFA believed that the USA was an untapped commercial market, much like China is today for FIFA.  And FIFA believed that by having ONE World Cup in the USA they could create enough interest in the sport to get the American corporation sponsorship money....errrr grow the game here in the USA.  The USA in 1994 was an investment in FIFA growth.


20 years later and the mission has been accomplished. FIFA seems to want to get a World Cup in China much like the FIFA investment in the USA 20+ years ago now.  Too many Chinese interested in basketball and tennis.


Returning to the USA is a different equation than that the first visit. Now AYSO is the largest youth soccer club in the world, so no need to come just to grow the game.  FIFA will return eventually.  However, unlike the IOC, FIFA does not need to find a host that will support 30+ sports and build venues for sports they do not even play all in one city.  Plenty of places that have never hosted that are very eager to spend billions, and give millions, to make it happen (ie. Russia & Qatar).

[Farm93]

So how did we get the World Cup in 1994?  Was the sport squeaky clean at that time?

FIFA officials were pretty clear about their intentions at that time, and everything since seems to have been consistent with the statements at the time.  FIFA believed that the USA was an untapped commercial market, much like China is today for FIFA.  And FIFA believed that by having ONE World Cup in the USA they could create enough interest in the sport to get the American corporation sponsorship money....errrr grow the game here in the USA.  The USA in 1994 was an investment in FIFA growth.


20 years later and the mission has been accomplished. FIFA seems to want to get a World Cup in China much like the FIFA investment in the USA 20+ years ago now.  Too many Chinese interested in basketball and tennis.


Returning to the USA is a different equation than that the first visit. Now AYSO is the largest youth soccer club in the world, so no need to come just to grow the game.  FIFA will return eventually.  However, unlike the IOC, FIFA does not need to find a host that will support 30+ sports and build venues for sports they do not even play all in one city.  Plenty of places that have never hosted that are very eager to spend billions, and give millions, to make it happen (ie. Russia & Qatar).

[fullmetal]

FIFA officials would be wise to follow OPEC procedure and never again convene on the soil of a nation having signed an extradition treaty with the United States.


Whatcha gonna do when they come for you, bad boys?

[fullmetal]

FIFA officials would be wise to follow OPEC procedure and never again convene on the soil of a nation having signed an extradition treaty with the United States.


Whatcha gonna do when they come for you, bad boys?

[oman]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.

[oman]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.

[Stymie]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]

Unlikely, as FIFA needs the USA much more than the USA needs another World Cup or even really cares about soccer ("follow the money"), and given the USA's dominance of the Olympics and ("follow the money"--see above) the IOC will award the Olympics every two decades or so to the USA.  I think that the World T&F is coming to Eugene, OR soon.  That will/would be a refreshing change.

[Stymie]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]

Unlikely, as FIFA needs the USA much more than the USA needs another World Cup or even really cares about soccer ("follow the money"), and given the USA's dominance of the Olympics and ("follow the money"--see above) the IOC will award the Olympics every two decades or so to the USA.  I think that the World T&F is coming to Eugene, OR soon.  That will/would be a refreshing change.

[Farm93]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]
Didn't say IOC would not issue another Olympics.  Though perhaps you believe the IOC is corrupt enough that they also fear visiting the USA.

FIFA does not need to have an event in the USA.  In the same way that Formula One does not need a race in USA.  The global corporations that sponsor FIFA don't need the event on USA soil, they only need American eyeballs to watch the event.  FIFA's Cup format makes it rather easy to get most audiences in other time zones to watch the games.  Many soccer powers have only hosted the FIFA World Cup once, and I suspect many of them will get selected before the USA.

Though now with FIFA's new one country one vote approach it is really unclear how a winner will emerge.  Fiji and Chad have the same voting power as Germany and Brazil.  THAT is crazy.

The IOC needs host cities to build dozens of expensive stadiums that have very little purpose after the 2 week event.  That's a tough bar.  FIFA only needs host nations to build 8 expensive stadiums around their entire country.  Those stadiums can then serve as new stadiums for the national soccer league.  It is wasteful, but not as ridiculous as hosting an Olympics.

Obviously the USA will get a World Cup soon, but I wouldn't bet on the USA winning the 2026 or 2030 World Cups.  Which is too bad because they USA really thought they could win the 2018 or 2022 Cups just 6 years ago.

[Farm93]

[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]
Didn't say IOC would not issue another Olympics.  Though perhaps you believe the IOC is corrupt enough that they also fear visiting the USA.

FIFA does not need to have an event in the USA.  In the same way that Formula One does not need a race in USA.  The global corporations that sponsor FIFA don't need the event on USA soil, they only need American eyeballs to watch the event.  FIFA's Cup format makes it rather easy to get most audiences in other time zones to watch the games.  Many soccer powers have only hosted the FIFA World Cup once, and I suspect many of them will get selected before the USA.

Though now with FIFA's new one country one vote approach it is really unclear how a winner will emerge.  Fiji and Chad have the same voting power as Germany and Brazil.  THAT is crazy.

The IOC needs host cities to build dozens of expensive stadiums that have very little purpose after the 2 week event.  That's a tough bar.  FIFA only needs host nations to build 8 expensive stadiums around their entire country.  Those stadiums can then serve as new stadiums for the national soccer league.  It is wasteful, but not as ridiculous as hosting an Olympics.

Obviously the USA will get a World Cup soon, but I wouldn't bet on the USA winning the 2026 or 2030 World Cups.  Which is too bad because they USA really thought they could win the 2018 or 2022 Cups just 6 years ago.

[Farm93]

I vote for Fiji over Chad.  Just saying'.

Me too.  I bet the Fiji voting representative will get a lot of "visits" before the next Cup vote.

For those that care, FIFA changed their World Cup selection process in 2011 after the last debacle.  Now every country gets a vote.  So it really becomes critical to win the votes of all of the tiny soccer federations out there.  I have doubts the new process will be bribe-free, but I am fairly certain an anti-USA block will ultimately form.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-...orruption/

[Farm93]

I vote for Fiji over Chad.  Just saying'.

Me too.  I bet the Fiji voting representative will get a lot of "visits" before the next Cup vote.

For those that care, FIFA changed their World Cup selection process in 2011 after the last debacle.  Now every country gets a vote.  So it really becomes critical to win the votes of all of the tiny soccer federations out there.  I have doubts the new process will be bribe-free, but I am fairly certain an anti-USA block will ultimately form.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-...orruption/

[dabigv13]

Yeah I saw that article yesterday, pretty interesting. 538 has been a really great addition to ESPN.com, along with Grantland.

[dabigv13]

Yeah I saw that article yesterday, pretty interesting. 538 has been a really great addition to ESPN.com, along with Grantland.

[fullmetal]

The EU has a permanent office in Fiji...I'm not entirely sure why.

[fullmetal]

The EU has a permanent office in Fiji...I'm not entirely sure why.

[fullmetal]

It takes up the entire top story of the newest shopping mall in Fiji's capital city.  Also, the bridge linking the capital city to the parcel of land where the nearest airport sits has a large sign on it advertising its financing/support from the EU.

[fullmetal]

It takes up the entire top story of the newest shopping mall in Fiji's capital city.  Also, the bridge linking the capital city to the parcel of land where the nearest airport sits has a large sign on it advertising its financing/support from the EU.

[Mick]

[quote author=oman link=topic=12176.msg119352#msg119352 date=1432800963]
[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]
Didn't say IOC would not issue another Olympics.  Though perhaps you believe the IOC is corrupt enough that they also fear visiting the USA.

FIFA does not need to have an event in the USA.  In the same way that Formula One does not need a race in USA.  The global corporations that sponsor FIFA don't need the event on USA soil, they only need American eyeballs to watch the event.  FIFA's Cup format makes it rather easy to get most audiences in other time zones to watch the games.  Many soccer powers have only hosted the FIFA World Cup once, and I suspect many of them will get selected before the USA.

Though now with FIFA's new one country one vote approach it is really unclear how a winner will emerge.  Fiji and Chad have the same voting power as Germany and Brazil.  THAT is crazy.

The IOC needs host cities to build dozens of expensive stadiums that have very little purpose after the 2 week event.  That's a tough bar.  FIFA only needs host nations to build 8 expensive stadiums around their entire country.  Those stadiums can then serve as new stadiums for the national soccer league.  It is wasteful, but not as ridiculous as hosting an Olympics.

Obviously the USA will get a World Cup soon, but I wouldn't bet on the USA winning the 2026 or 2030 World Cups.  Which is too bad because they USA really thought they could win the 2018 or 2022 Cups just 6 years ago.
[/quote]

Well I believe that we will win...    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uEpcfonkt4

[Mick]

[quote author=oman link=topic=12176.msg119352#msg119352 date=1432800963]
[quote author=Stymie link=topic=12176.msg119230#msg119230 date=1432759948]

Sorry, oman, but Farm93 is spot on.

That the US may never host another IOC or FIFA event?  Sure.
[/quote]
Didn't say IOC would not issue another Olympics.  Though perhaps you believe the IOC is corrupt enough that they also fear visiting the USA.

FIFA does not need to have an event in the USA.  In the same way that Formula One does not need a race in USA.  The global corporations that sponsor FIFA don't need the event on USA soil, they only need American eyeballs to watch the event.  FIFA's Cup format makes it rather easy to get most audiences in other time zones to watch the games.  Many soccer powers have only hosted the FIFA World Cup once, and I suspect many of them will get selected before the USA.

Though now with FIFA's new one country one vote approach it is really unclear how a winner will emerge.  Fiji and Chad have the same voting power as Germany and Brazil.  THAT is crazy.

The IOC needs host cities to build dozens of expensive stadiums that have very little purpose after the 2 week event.  That's a tough bar.  FIFA only needs host nations to build 8 expensive stadiums around their entire country.  Those stadiums can then serve as new stadiums for the national soccer league.  It is wasteful, but not as ridiculous as hosting an Olympics.

Obviously the USA will get a World Cup soon, but I wouldn't bet on the USA winning the 2026 or 2030 World Cups.  Which is too bad because they USA really thought they could win the 2018 or 2022 Cups just 6 years ago.
[/quote]

Well I believe that we will win...    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uEpcfonkt4

[dabigv13]

.....worst sports cheer ever.

[dabigv13]

.....worst sports cheer ever.

[oman]

.....worst sports cheer ever.

Es muy mal.

[oman]

.....worst sports cheer ever.

Es muy mal.

[pefloresjr]

[quote author=dabigv link=topic=12176.msg119494#msg119494 date=1432907393]
.....worst sports cheer ever.

Es muy mal.
[/quote]

You guys must not have grown up rooting for the Angels and Giants baseball teams.  The 1979 Angels' fan-inspired slogan was "Yes We Can!"  Even though it worked and the Angels made the playoffs for the first time, it was a slogan that seemed more appropriate for young, disabled children.  That slogan was bested in pessimism by the 1984 Giants' slogan "C'mon Giants, Hang In There!" We all knew the team was going to be losing most games and would need a little encouragement along the way, but never expected it to become part of the team's official marketing.  The Giants lost 96 games that year and 100 the next.  "I believe that we will win" is delusional, but not as pathetic as my baseball teams' old slogans. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

[quote author=dabigv link=topic=12176.msg119494#msg119494 date=1432907393]
.....worst sports cheer ever.

Es muy mal.
[/quote]

You guys must not have grown up rooting for the Angels and Giants baseball teams.  The 1979 Angels' fan-inspired slogan was "Yes We Can!"  Even though it worked and the Angels made the playoffs for the first time, it was a slogan that seemed more appropriate for young, disabled children.  That slogan was bested in pessimism by the 1984 Giants' slogan "C'mon Giants, Hang In There!" We all knew the team was going to be losing most games and would need a little encouragement along the way, but never expected it to become part of the team's official marketing.  The Giants lost 96 games that year and 100 the next.  "I believe that we will win" is delusional, but not as pathetic as my baseball teams' old slogans. 

Cheers,
Pete F.

[terry]

Wow, that's lame. That sounds like a slogan that originated in a foreign language from someone who knows nothing about sports and was badly translated into English.

[terry]

Wow, that's lame. That sounds like a slogan that originated in a foreign language from someone who knows nothing about sports and was badly translated into English.

[teejers1]

I didn't think it was that bad at all . . . kinda catchy, really!

And besides, is it really any different than the "We believe" slogan of the Warriors the time they beat the top-seeded Mavs in R1 of playoffs (when Baron Davis was running the point)?

[teejers1]

I didn't think it was that bad at all . . . kinda catchy, really!

And besides, is it really any different than the "We believe" slogan of the Warriors the time they beat the top-seeded Mavs in R1 of playoffs (when Baron Davis was running the point)?

[dabigv13]

Terry, thanks for putting into words what I've been thinking for a while. I like soccer and I like the US, but I'm not really interested in being a US soccer fan because of shit like that dumb cheer.


Also, very unsurprising to hear that Sepp Blatter was re-elected. The whole thing sounds tremendously funny though-


http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/...prince-ali


What a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I think it reflects what a corrupt place our world really is. Starting to look like the nuclear option might be worth pursuing (UEFA + other major market teams just boycott the WC and form their own WC).

[dabigv13]

Terry, thanks for putting into words what I've been thinking for a while. I like soccer and I like the US, but I'm not really interested in being a US soccer fan because of shit like that dumb cheer.


Also, very unsurprising to hear that Sepp Blatter was re-elected. The whole thing sounds tremendously funny though-


http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/...prince-ali


What a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I think it reflects what a corrupt place our world really is. Starting to look like the nuclear option might be worth pursuing (UEFA + other major market teams just boycott the WC and form their own WC).

[Rally]

Would someone please find and post the link to his comment that (roughly) "we can't tell people to act ethically."  When I try my browser just closes.  Hmmmmm?

[Rally]

Would someone please find and post the link to his comment that (roughly) "we can't tell people to act ethically."  When I try my browser just closes.  Hmmmmm?

[Rally]

Terry, thanks for putting into words what I've been thinking for a while. I like soccer and I like the US, but I'm not really interested in being a US soccer fan because of stuff like that dumb cheer.


Also, very unsurprising to hear that Sepp Blatter was re-elected. The whole thing sounds tremendously funny though-


http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/...prince-ali


What a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I think it reflects what a corrupt place our world really is. Starting to look like the nuclear option might be worth pursuing (UEFA + other major market teams just boycott the WC and form their own WC).

They came close to banning Isreal for discriminating against Palestinian players.  Plastinians proposed then withdrew at the last moment.  Some enlightened soul must have risked death by asking how many Muslim members welcome Jewish players.

[Rally]

Terry, thanks for putting into words what I've been thinking for a while. I like soccer and I like the US, but I'm not really interested in being a US soccer fan because of stuff like that dumb cheer.


Also, very unsurprising to hear that Sepp Blatter was re-elected. The whole thing sounds tremendously funny though-


http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/05/...prince-ali


What a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I think it reflects what a corrupt place our world really is. Starting to look like the nuclear option might be worth pursuing (UEFA + other major market teams just boycott the WC and form their own WC).

They came close to banning Isreal for discriminating against Palestinian players.  Plastinians proposed then withdrew at the last moment.  Some enlightened soul must have risked death by asking how many Muslim members welcome Jewish players.