[TrumpCard]

There has been some criticism of Shaw's QB recruiting so let's review it year-by-year and see whether he really made any mistakes (with the obvious caveat that it's too early to tell on some):

2012:
Shaw went after Winston and missed.  Probably for the best, but he sure made a good evaluation on QB ability.  Shaw also offered Lindquist right after he took over the head coaching position from Harbaugh, but Lindquist decided to stay closer to home.  Lindquist has been far from a star, but he looks to be the starter for UW this year, so he's not a complete bust.  Were there any others Shaw offered or should have offered?  I don't remember.

2013:
Shaw offered Burns and got him.  There was criticism that he should have offered Max Browne, but it's unclear that Browne had the academics to get admitted.  If Browne did have the academics, then missing on him was a mistake, maybe a big one.  The other option was Cooper Bateman, who is now trying to play WR at Alabama.  Were there any others Shaw should have considered?

2014:
Shaw offered Chryst and got him.  Some pessimists are already saying that Chryst isn't living up to the hype, though that statement seems very premature.  Was there someone else who should have gotten the nod?

2015:
Shaw offered Town and then Wimbush.  Town just transferred after seeing an uphill battle to playing time and Wimbush looks great at UDFG.  Should Shaw have offered Wimbush prior to seeing him at Stanford's camp?  Should Shaw have offered Darnold instead of Wimbush?  Would it have mattered since U$C was Darnold's childhood favorite?  Was there someone else Shaw should have offered?

2016:
Shaw offered Costello and got him.  We'll have to wait and see whether that evaluation was a good one. 

The one thing that's clear is that Shaw does a good job landing the recruits he wants at QB.  How many other schools have a batting average like Shaw's?  Not many.

[TrumpCard]

There has been some criticism of Shaw's QB recruiting so let's review it year-by-year and see whether he really made any mistakes (with the obvious caveat that it's too early to tell on some):

2012:
Shaw went after Winston and missed.  Probably for the best, but he sure made a good evaluation on QB ability.  Shaw also offered Lindquist right after he took over the head coaching position from Harbaugh, but Lindquist decided to stay closer to home.  Lindquist has been far from a star, but he looks to be the starter for UW this year, so he's not a complete bust.  Were there any others Shaw offered or should have offered?  I don't remember.

2013:
Shaw offered Burns and got him.  There was criticism that he should have offered Max Browne, but it's unclear that Browne had the academics to get admitted.  If Browne did have the academics, then missing on him was a mistake, maybe a big one.  The other option was Cooper Bateman, who is now trying to play WR at Alabama.  Were there any others Shaw should have considered?

2014:
Shaw offered Chryst and got him.  Some pessimists are already saying that Chryst isn't living up to the hype, though that statement seems very premature.  Was there someone else who should have gotten the nod?

2015:
Shaw offered Town and then Wimbush.  Town just transferred after seeing an uphill battle to playing time and Wimbush looks great at UDFG.  Should Shaw have offered Wimbush prior to seeing him at Stanford's camp?  Should Shaw have offered Darnold instead of Wimbush?  Would it have mattered since U$C was Darnold's childhood favorite?  Was there someone else Shaw should have offered?

2016:
Shaw offered Costello and got him.  We'll have to wait and see whether that evaluation was a good one. 

The one thing that's clear is that Shaw does a good job landing the recruits he wants at QB.  How many other schools have a batting average like Shaw's?  Not many.

[washingtonismoney]

2014:
Shaw offered Chryst and got him.  ... Was there someone else who should have gotten the nod?

Whether this goes on the "credit" or "debit" side, Shaw's second choice was Brad Kaaya, who had a very solid true freshman season for Miami.

[washingtonismoney]

2014:
Shaw offered Chryst and got him.  ... Was there someone else who should have gotten the nod?

Whether this goes on the "credit" or "debit" side, Shaw's second choice was Brad Kaaya, who had a very solid true freshman season for Miami.

[washingtonismoney]

Statistically speaking he did. Lot of dumb mistakes that don't show up in the numbers that damaged Miami's record. But that happens with true freshmen quarterbacks.

As you say, happens a ton with true freshmen QBs. Graded on that curve he did very well nevertheless. (It's why I'm pretty skeptical about UCLA this year if they start Rosen.)

[washingtonismoney]

Statistically speaking he did. Lot of dumb mistakes that don't show up in the numbers that damaged Miami's record. But that happens with true freshmen quarterbacks.

As you say, happens a ton with true freshmen QBs. Graded on that curve he did very well nevertheless. (It's why I'm pretty skeptical about UCLA this year if they start Rosen.)

[Rally]

I have read in a few places I can't remember that Luck may not have been Harbaugh's first choice.  True, false, or unsupported rumor?

[Rally]

I have read in a few places I can't remember that Luck may not have been Harbaugh's first choice.  True, false, or unsupported rumor?

[washingtonismoney]

I have read in a few places I can't remember that Luck may not have been Harbaugh's first choice.  True, false, or unsupported rumor?

Harbaugh preferred Landry Jones,IIRC.

[washingtonismoney]

I have read in a few places I can't remember that Luck may not have been Harbaugh's first choice.  True, false, or unsupported rumor?

Harbaugh preferred Landry Jones,IIRC.

[PrinceLightfoot]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Landry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

[PrinceLightfoot]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Landry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

[Rally]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

So Luck was just dumb luck?

[Rally]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

So Luck was just dumb luck?

[terry]

I seem to recall hearing that Harbaugh offered Dayne Crist and Landry Jones before he offered Luck. I suppose the timing of the offers doesn't necessarily prove that he ranked the other two guys higher than Luck. There may have been some other reason for the timing.

[terry]

I seem to recall hearing that Harbaugh offered Dayne Crist and Landry Jones before he offered Luck. I suppose the timing of the offers doesn't necessarily prove that he ranked the other two guys higher than Luck. There may have been some other reason for the timing.

[Spiny_Norman]

Rather than recruiting or talent evaluation, I think that a more valid comment about Shaw is that the jury is still out on how well he develops QB talent.

Hogan has been a serviceable QB, but he has not developed a lot since his redshirt frosh year.  As one of the railbirds observed after the open practice this weekend, "Hogan was Hogan." 

Neither Crower (after 4 fall practices) nor Burns (in his 3rd fall practice) nor Chryst (in his 2nd fall practice) has been ready to step up.  Is the staff not doing a good job of developing QBs?  Is the offense so complex that the bar may be impossibly high for even a physically gifted QB to "get it"?  At this point, we don't know.  We'll have more data points to work with once Hogan leaves.

[Spiny_Norman]

Rather than recruiting or talent evaluation, I think that a more valid comment about Shaw is that the jury is still out on how well he develops QB talent.

Hogan has been a serviceable QB, but he has not developed a lot since his redshirt frosh year.  As one of the railbirds observed after the open practice this weekend, "Hogan was Hogan." 

Neither Crower (after 4 fall practices) nor Burns (in his 3rd fall practice) nor Chryst (in his 2nd fall practice) has been ready to step up.  Is the staff not doing a good job of developing QBs?  Is the offense so complex that the bar may be impossibly high for even a physically gifted QB to "get it"?  At this point, we don't know.  We'll have more data points to work with once Hogan leaves.

[OutsiderFan]

As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.  Don't know if he has the academic chops, but I'm partial to dual threat QBs because I think pro-style offenses require too much of a learning curve in college when there is such limited practice time.  Though if the VR system can reduce this learning curve, I might change my tune.

[OutsiderFan]

As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.  Don't know if he has the academic chops, but I'm partial to dual threat QBs because I think pro-style offenses require too much of a learning curve in college when there is such limited practice time.  Though if the VR system can reduce this learning curve, I might change my tune.

[PrinceLightfoot]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Landry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

I was mistaken. Sean Renfree was the plan B type and we were after Jones but he committed early. We discussed this back in 2013.

http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?...0#msg75460

[PrinceLightfoot]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Landry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

I was mistaken. Sean Renfree was the plan B type and we were after Jones but he committed early. We discussed this back in 2013.

http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php?...0#msg75460

[oman]

Not switching to the wishbone and putting Dallas Lloyd as QB was criminal.  IMO.

[oman]

Not switching to the wishbone and putting Dallas Lloyd as QB was criminal.  IMO.

[Rally]

Not switching to the wishbone and putting Dallas Lloyd as QB was criminal.  IMO.

Just kidding, right? 

[Rally]

Not switching to the wishbone and putting Dallas Lloyd as QB was criminal.  IMO.

Just kidding, right? 

[CompSci87]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?

[CompSci87]

I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?

[Rally]

[quote author=PrinceLightfoot link=topic=12532.msg124714#msg124714 date=1439835649]
I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?
[/quote]

So good.  Makes me want to weep.

[Rally]

[quote author=PrinceLightfoot link=topic=12532.msg124714#msg124714 date=1439835649]
I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?
[/quote]

So good.  Makes me want to weep.

[socalstanfan1]

The other issue to factor into any evaluation of Shaw and QBs is how often other programs strike out, and how often consensus "great" QBs fail to pan out. Heaps is a great example.  As I recall, he was one of the stars at an Elite-11 camp, but just never developed at all, even as a serviceable QB.  Happens so often.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

[socalstanfan1]

The other issue to factor into any evaluation of Shaw and QBs is how often other programs strike out, and how often consensus "great" QBs fail to pan out. Heaps is a great example.  As I recall, he was one of the stars at an Elite-11 camp, but just never developed at all, even as a serviceable QB.  Happens so often.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Browne and Burns have combined for 8 career pass attempts so I'm not sure where your 2013 analysis comes from

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

Browne and Burns have combined for 8 career pass attempts so I'm not sure where your 2013 analysis comes from

[Bruce Wang]

As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

Urban, like OutsiderFan, liked Gaurantano as well.  Gaurantano liked Tennessee's depth chart better.

Too soon to tell if Burns was a mistake, and we may never know.  Bateman switched to WR.  Kevin Olsen as I recall was another QB that liked Stanford.  He crashed and burned, literally.  Goff was interested, but I don't think we ever were.  I've only seen him play us so I wonder what all the hype is about.

Chryst will be a more interesting case.  We locked on him early.  There were several top recruits interested in us that have already shown promise on the field.

There will always be a significant amount of angst on this subject.  As long as we are a top program, there will always appear to be better options unless said recruit turns out to be the next Andrew Luck.  Stanford is one of the Quarterback U's and it's a position that tends to be populated by academically-qualified student-athletes.

Now that we are Defensive Back U, it appears that the defensive line is now our area of relative recruiting weakness?

[Bruce Wang]

As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

Urban, like OutsiderFan, liked Gaurantano as well.  Gaurantano liked Tennessee's depth chart better.

Too soon to tell if Burns was a mistake, and we may never know.  Bateman switched to WR.  Kevin Olsen as I recall was another QB that liked Stanford.  He crashed and burned, literally.  Goff was interested, but I don't think we ever were.  I've only seen him play us so I wonder what all the hype is about.

Chryst will be a more interesting case.  We locked on him early.  There were several top recruits interested in us that have already shown promise on the field.

There will always be a significant amount of angst on this subject.  As long as we are a top program, there will always appear to be better options unless said recruit turns out to be the next Andrew Luck.  Stanford is one of the Quarterback U's and it's a position that tends to be populated by academically-qualified student-athletes.

Now that we are Defensive Back U, it appears that the defensive line is now our area of relative recruiting weakness?

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12532.msg124727#msg124727 date=1439837820]
As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

Urban, like OutsiderFan, liked Gaurantano as well.  Gaurantano liked Tennessee's depth chart better.

[/quote]

Shaw liked him, too, but as fallback in case Costello went elsewhere.
Maybe we should have offered them both, especially since we didn't take a QB this year.

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=12532.msg124727#msg124727 date=1439837820]
As much as Costello is ranked highly in the 2016 class, I really like Jarrett Gaurantano of Bergen Catholic in NJ, who committed to Tennessee.

Hate to give props to him, but Urban Meyer is a guy who seems to have a great eye for QB talent, and an ability to develop it.

Urban, like OutsiderFan, liked Gaurantano as well.  Gaurantano liked Tennessee's depth chart better.

[/quote]

Shaw liked him, too, but as fallback in case Costello went elsewhere.
Maybe we should have offered them both, especially since we didn't take a QB this year.

[fullmetal]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=12532.msg124792#msg124792 date=1439865387]
[quote author=PrinceLightfoot link=topic=12532.msg124714#msg124714 date=1439835649]
I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?
[/quote]

So good.  Makes me want to weep.
[/quote]

Wouldn't have survived the Stanford academic wringer, imho.

[fullmetal]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=12532.msg124792#msg124792 date=1439865387]
[quote author=PrinceLightfoot link=topic=12532.msg124714#msg124714 date=1439835649]
I recall him preferring Dayne Crist and Sean Renfree ahead of Andrew Luck. Laundry Jones did not receive a Stanford offer (at least he did not report an offer).

Laundry washed out?
[/quote]

So good.  Makes me want to weep.
[/quote]

Wouldn't have survived the Stanford academic wringer, imho.