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Full Version: The incongruity that is Stanford golf
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No way this men's team should win a very ciompetitive event, much less two in a row. 
The performances at three, four, and five are keys.
And that is what is killing the womens' team, which overflows with
Junior All Americans: the poor performances--no better word for it--
that Mika Liu and Ziyi Wang. 

Freshman Krauter has been an excellent four
but is playing at three.
And Liu and Wang killed them at NCAAs last year,

Hats of to the men and a kick in the butts to the women.
USC has more talent, but no one else does. 
4th in Pac 12
is a failure.
In its last three matches, Stanford men
vs. Top Ten teams: 6-1
vs. Top Twenty teams: 13-2
A ranking systems that doesn't have the Cardinal in its top ten is flawed.

Stanford women
vs Top Ten teams: 2-4
vs. Top Twenty teams: 3-9

Ridiculous. 
The worst Stanford team,
based on talent versus performance,
in a five decade memory.
Yes, who would have thought it would work out this way.  At the start, it would have seemed to be a very bad bet to think the 3,4 and 5 positions would perform so poorly for the women.
The men have shown significant improvement since last year, and one doesn't see much improvement on the women's side at all.  At this point in the year, Lee and Valenzuela need some help and it hasn't shown yet.  Can't think this puts some subtle pressure on the two thinking they have to low for the team to have a chance.  Not a good situation.
Wonder whether Lee has a chance in the Pac XII or NCAA rounds to fill the 5th spot.  Late in the year to try something like that, but he has shot some decent scores on tough courses this year.  
Who would have thought we might be worrying about the women getting out of the regional rounds this year.
(04-18-2019, 06:33 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: [ -> ]Stanford women
vs Top Ten teams: 2-4
vs. Top Twenty teams: 3-9
The women appear to be inconsistent, which is frustrating (to them most of all, I'm sure) because it shows they have the talent to achieve low scores. We have two top aces (Lee and Valenzuela) who are usually great but more inconsistent than I would expect, and a slew of pretty good players who are not consistently reliable. Any idea what's going on?
It's not a problem of consistent reliability in the lower spots:
Liu and Wang have played poorly with workwomanlike consistency.
Those two are reliably not good enough.

(And yes, Valenzuela hasn't been consistent, either,
but at a much higher level.)

Krauter has been a decent five (76.6 over her last 12 rounds)
and a terrific five for match play because she can get very hot.
Liu (76.7) and Wang (76.1) can't.
Those are wretched numbers at their spots.

Each of them will win only if her opponent plays poorly/chokes,
which certainly can happen in NCAA finals match play.


I'd be tempted to take a flyer and play Reyes,
although she hasn't outplayed the other two and has less experience.

Meanwhile, no idea how the men are doing what they are doing.
Magic fairy dust?
(04-18-2019, 04:36 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: [ -> ]No way this men's team should win a very ciompetitive event, much less two in a row. 
The performances at three, four, and five are keys.
And that is what is killing the womens' team, which overflows with
Junior All Americans: the poor performances--no better word for it--
that Mika Liu and Ziyi Wang. 

Freshman Krauter has been an excellent four
but is playing at three.
And Liu and Wang killed them at NCAAs last year,

Hats of to the men and a kick in the butts to the women.
USC has more talent, but no one else does. 
4th in Pac 12
is a failure.

Well, when all is said and done, the women did pretty well, getting to the final 8 and losing to the eventual champions.

And of course the men have a chance to win it all, which is amazing.  Magic fairy dust indeed.

BC
(04-18-2019, 09:26 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: [ -> ]It's not a problem of consistent reliability in the lower spots:
Liu and Wang have played poorly with workwomanlike consistency.
Those two are reliably not good enough.

(And yes, Valenzuela hasn't been consistent, either,
but at a much higher level.)

Krauter has been a decent five (76.6 over her last 12 rounds)
and a terrific five for match play because she can get very hot.
Liu (76.7) and Wang (76.1) can't.
Those are wretched numbers at their spots.

Each of them will win only if her opponent plays poorly/chokes,
which certainly can happen in NCAA finals match play.


I'd be tempted to take a flyer and play Reyes,
although she hasn't outplayed the other two and has less experience.

Meanwhile, no idea how the men are doing what they are doing.
Magic fairy dust?

The women's team lacks depth. It could get a lot worse next year if Lee and/or Valenzuela turn pro. I think at least one if not both will do so.
Lee has done nothing this year to tell her she should go pro,
unless she thinks playing better players will raise her game.
If she continues her current trend,
she wouldn't pass qualifying school.

Valenzuela is a different case;
her unusual background might mean
she doesn't covet playing professional golf,
at least enough to leave Stanford
and her teammates and friends.


If those two stay, Stanford will have second to none talent.
Seay and Ye will replace Liu and Wang
and one of them might even leapfrog Krauter,
That would mean that Stanford's #4, or even #5,
would be the
woman who placed 10th place in this year's NCAA medal play.
I think it very likely both Lee and Valenzuela return next year because of the chance to win another national championship. Hulk is correct that the talent level will increase next year with Seay and Ye to make it a very interesting line-up. In 2020 Heck, Engelman and perhaps Li arrive, then the #1 player the following year, Rose Zhang, has committed to Stanford as well. Very impressive recruiting for both programs going forward.
(05-29-2019, 05:10 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: [ -> ]Lee has done nothing this year to tell her she should go pro

Really?
She finished in the Top 50 at the ANA Inspiration - one of the LPGA majors. She's also currently in the Top 10 at the US Open after the first round.

She's done plenty to tell her she can compete on the LPGA.
Lee played her final nine competitive rounds in 23 over par.
Lilia Vu was the Pac 12 women player of the year last season.
and jumped to the pros.
She's won $3,800 so far--
no money at all in three events.

A 50th in a pro event
doesn't seem like any signal that Lee is ready.
Seems to me that "...ready to turn pro..." has been given a whole new meaning recently.  

Right, KZ...? :-)
(05-30-2019, 03:28 PM)winflop Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-29-2019, 05:10 AM)Hulk01 Wrote: [ -> ]Lee has done nothing this year to tell her she should go pro

Really?
She finished in the Top 50 at the ANA Inspiration - one of the LPGA majors. She's also currently in the Top 10 at the US Open after the first round.

She's done plenty to tell her she can compete on the LPGA.

Unfortunately, she has to play four more rounds.  Should she say finish in the top ten, can she go pro and collect the bucks on the spot?

Maria Stackhouse has made $10,600 this year and over $300,000 part way through her third year on the LPGA.  No wins, but she is making a living.  Decisions, Decisions.  

My guess is that Salinda will give the PGA a try, probably Wu also, but it is tough to make the big show.  Maverick is still trying to get off the WEB Tour.  Patrick Rodgers got off the WEB tour quickly, and is making about $1,000,000 a year without a win, so I guess you can say he is doing ok.  On the other hand Cameron Wilson, seems to have pretty much given up trying.  Lots of very good golfers never make it.
(05-30-2019, 06:54 PM)GK3 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, she has to play four more rounds.  Should she say finish in the top ten, can she go pro and collect the bucks on the spot?

Maria Stackhouse has made $10,600 this year and over $300,000 part way through her third year on the LPGA.  No wins, but she is making a living.  Decisions, Decisions.  

My guess is that Salinda will give the PGA a try, probably Wu also, but it is tough to make the big show.  Maverick is still trying to get off the WEB Tour.  Patrick Rodgers got off the WEB tour quickly, and is making about $1,000,000 a year without a win, so I guess you can say he is doing ok.  On the other hand Cameron Wilson, seems to have pretty much given up trying.  Lots of very good golfers never make it.

Lee played all four rounds at an LPGA major. Had she been a pro, she would have earned ~$12K

The statement was that she hasn't done anything to show she can play on the LPGA. I provided two examples that counter that statement. I agree she needs to play well for 3 more rounds at the Open, but she's already shown she has a game that CAN play that event.

The men's tour is MUCH harder to get to the top tier than the women's tour. Maverick is pretty much a lock to earn enough to bypass Q school and go straight to the PGA Tour next year. Anybody who can make 7 figures a year - win or lose - is a legit tour pro. I've heard the transition from college to pro golf is really hard. It's very different when it's your full-time job and you have to play well to support yourself.
One of my points here
is that the subject of Lee going pro could be moot.
If she tried this summer, and played the way
she's played over the last month--averaging 74 strokes per round--
she won't qualifg--won't even get to the final event.
Maybe you're both right in that she has shown the talent but not the consistency to turn pro yet.

But the best argument against her turning pro is that she plays her best golf after immersing herself in her academics; maybe it staves off any nervousness?  GolfWorld article
Lee not only made the cut at the US Open, she's in the Top 20 after 2 rounds...

I hope she comes back - and I would've thought that if she were turning pro she would've already done so since she qualified for the US Open.

She's made the cut at two LPGA majors this year. There might be 50-60 other players who have done that this year. I have no doubt she's ready for the tour.
Albane Valenzuela and Mariah Stackhouse both at +8 missed the cut of +3.
Patty Tavatanakit (UCLA) turned pro and just made the cut at +3.
Glad to see Andrea Lee wearing her Stanford shirt and cap.
Rose Zhang is a high school sophomore and #1 ranked junior who has already verballed to Stanford. She made the cut at the US Open on the number at +3.

Andrea Lee clearly has LPGA aspirations. She played in the LPGA qualifying tournament last fall. She made it to stage 2 (of 3) and came up 1 shot short of advancing. I expect her to return to Stanford next fall, but she may or may not finish the year.
Tougher day today for Andrea. +6 through 15, +5 overall and currently out of the top 50.

Haven't had a chance to watch TV coverage (was out at Stanford GC this morning :)) but if she's wearing her Stanford colors then highly likely she's returning. I would expect Coach Walker to require that she play the whole year and not leave early, even if she gets her card at Q school this fall.
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