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(06-06-2019, 05:14 PM)Goose Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-06-2019, 04:08 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: [ -> ]"I'm worried you might fire me if I'm bad at my job"

No, I m worried that you will not be honest with me about your evaluation of my efforts, will not give me the support, patience and time I need to be successful, and are basically not an honest person. Since I am a good coach, I am not going to take a chance on being stabbed in the back. I don't need to.

Since you are a good coach, you'll do better in 3 years than Haase has, and will have nothing to worry about.
(06-06-2019, 03:37 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]UCLA had a top 50 list when they were looking for a replacement for Steve Alford. They got none of them.

It's really really tough to find a good college head coach. Someone who can recruit well, teach and push the players such that they improve their games and also prepare for and beat opponents. It's even tougher when you overlay the Stanford admission restrictions. 

One of the best at all of these phases is completely toxic - Bruce Pearl. Great coach. Amoral jerk of a person. Men's college hoops really is sinking into a cesspool. I don't know how teams can be successful without wading into it.

Apples & oranges. UCLA fans (still) want the next John Wooden. Stanford fans want a coach who can win 20 games more often than not.
Maybe it's because I live and work in the Santa Barbara area, but I always liked Ben Howland. He's not the next John Wooden--UCLA fired him after he won the conference (but flamed out in the first round of the NCAA tournament)--but he knows how to turn around a program.
(06-06-2019, 05:09 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-05-2019, 09:19 PM)BobK Wrote: [ -> ]Elon’s new coach is the guy who recruited Sheffield to Stanford, Mike Schage  

More comical to think that Sacramento hires Walton with a sexual assault lawsuit over his head

This is a wee bit unfair, Bob. For one, the allegation was only revealed after Walton was hired by the Kings. And two, we have seen ample evidence of women exaggerating or making stuff up to extract money from men.  The Walton case is a civil suit after all. Look at the sad story of Reuben Foster as Exhibit A. 

I'm not going to claim any allegations against Walton should be dismissed out of - or make light of - the issue at hand, but we must remember we live in an innocent until proven guilty society.  Too often people are convicted in the court of public opinion and have their reputations and future earning potential ruined by others.

I've been accused of taking liberties with a woman I absolutely did not, and been socially shunned as a result. It is exasperating.  In my case it didn't have any impact on my professional life. I can only imagine how awful and frustrating it must be when it does.

Have to agree.  A good friend of mine terminated a consensual relationship with a coworker, and he lost his job over it when his former girlfriend mischaracterized it to management.  it's a bit of a minefield out there.  

Separately, with respect to professional athletes, I worked for a firm with a substantial Sports legal practice.  You literally would not believe (a) the lengths that some women would go to entrap an athlete and (b) some of the advice that my former firm would give to address those issues.
(06-06-2019, 10:18 PM)Papa John Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe it's because I live and work in the Santa Barbara area, but I always liked Ben Howland. He's not the next John Wooden--UCLA fired him after he won the conference (but flamed out in the first round of the NCAA tournament)--but he knows how to turn around a program.

Howland isn't moving anytime soon. He just got himself a farm outside of StarkVegas and he's pretty much settled down. As long as he wins the proper amount of games, keeps his nose clean and beats Kentucky ever so often he can have a job for life. To Mississippi State, he's a very valuable asset.

It parallels somewhat to another Pac-8 coach who roamed into Starkville back in the early 80's. Bob Boyd coached the Bulldogs for a number of years and is endeared. Two of his assistants actually went on to coach their respective teams into the Final Four. I always remember him as the one who handed John Wooden his first loss in Pauley Pavilion, in fact he did it twice in back to back years 69 and 70. His 1969 team played in that infamous stall game where they played the Bruins on back-to-back days at the end of the year. They played at the Sports Arena, then at Pauley. Boyd held the ball that first night and then put in deep freeze at Pauley the following night and won. Wooden said Boyd was the better coach that evening.
(06-06-2019, 06:56 PM)winflop Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-06-2019, 03:37 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]UCLA had a top 50 list when they were looking for a replacement for Steve Alford. They got none of them.

It's really really tough to find a good college head coach. Someone who can recruit well, teach and push the players such that they improve their games and also prepare for and beat opponents. It's even tougher when you overlay the Stanford admission restrictions. 

One of the best at all of these phases is completely toxic - Bruce Pearl. Great coach. Amoral jerk of a person. Men's college hoops really is sinking into a cesspool. I don't know how teams can be successful without wading into it.

Apples & oranges. UCLA fans (still) want the next John Wooden. Stanford fans want a coach who can win 20 games more often than not.

Johnny Dawkins won 20 games 4 times in 8 seasons at Stanford.
(06-07-2019, 09:49 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]Johnny Dawkins won 20 games 4 times in 8 seasons at Stanford.

Unfortunately most of those wins were against bottom feeders in the PAC-12 or weak OOC schools. Dawkins had a winning conference record 2 times in 8 seasons and was 66-78 in PAC-12 games overall during an eight-year period that was universally considered one of the weakest eras for the conference.

That's not to say Haase has been doing any better - if anything, his record is worse. But a losing PAC-12 record in 6 of 8 years and one lone trip to the Dance in 8 seasons doesn't cut it at a school with 123 NCAA national championships.

Even with admissions constraints, we can do better.
(06-07-2019, 11:51 AM)2006alum Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-07-2019, 09:49 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]Johnny Dawkins won 20 games 4 times in 8 seasons at Stanford.

Unfortunately most of those wins were against bottom feeders in the PAC-12 or weak OOC schools. Dawkins had a winning conference record 2 times in 8 seasons and was 66-78 in PAC-12 games overall during an eight-year period that was universally considered one of the weakest eras for the conference.

That's not to say Haase has been doing any better - if anything, his record is worse. But a losing PAC-12 record in 6 of 8 years and one lone trip to the Dance in 8 seasons doesn't cut it at a school with 123 NCAA national championships.

Even with admissions constraints, we can do better.

I was gently poking fun at Win with my comment. While I do agree that expectations of UCLA and Stanford fans are different, it's still really tough to find a coach who can be successful. It's even tougher for Stanford because the pool of feasible head coaches is smaller.

My frustration stems from:
Only finishing in the top 4 of the conference (a weak conference) twice in the past 11 years
Never winning more than 11 conference games (in a weak conference) in the past 11 years
Losing 20 consecutive games to Arizona
Losing every game at Pauley Pavilion since 2005
One marquee win in the past 11 years - Kansas in the 2014 tournament
Watching a team that has trouble executing fundamentals - shooting from the field, free throws, not turning the ball over

I am not ready to give up on the program, but it's tough to put much energy behind it right now.
There were 3 teams in the Ivy League better than us last year (according to computer rankings). Enough said.
(06-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]Losing every game at Pauley Pavilion since 2005

Correction: since 2009.  Unless you think that that "foul" called against Law Hill in the closing seconds of regulation was legit.  That cost us a shot at the Pac-12 regular season title, too.

Not that I still get upset about foul calls from 10 years ago or anything...
(06-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]While I do agree that expectations of UCLA and Stanford fans are different, it's still really tough to find a coach who can be successful. It's even tougher for Stanford because the pool of feasible head coaches is smaller. 

Tough but not impossible. It still frustrates me to this day knowing that there's a good chance we could've landed Tony Bennett in 2008 when we hired Dawkins. Instead, Bennett goes to UVA the following year and ends up winning a national title while we enter a decade-plus of mediocrity.

Bennett's comments from a 2015 interview: “I marveled at Stanford when I was in the Pac-10...and I said, ‘Boy, that’s really what’s right about college sports, the ability to compete athletically and what’s going on academically.’ And then I looked at Virginia and thought this (is similar).”
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b...-post.html
(06-07-2019, 02:10 PM)burger Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]Losing every game at Pauley Pavilion since 2005

Correction: since 2009.  Unless you think that that "foul" called against Law Hill in the closing seconds of regulation was legit.  That cost us a shot at the Pac-12 regular season title, too.

Not that I still get upset about foul calls from 10 years ago or anything...

I think you mean 2008 but yeah, that foul was horse hockey. Stanford is just snake-bit at Pauley. Stanford did not beat UCLA at Pauley for *24 years* after it opened. Every victory there should be celebrated so it's tough for one to slip away like that game.
(06-07-2019, 01:05 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-07-2019, 11:51 AM)2006alum Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-07-2019, 09:49 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: [ -> ]Johnny Dawkins won 20 games 4 times in 8 seasons at Stanford.

Unfortunately most of those wins were against bottom feeders in the PAC-12 or weak OOC schools. Dawkins had a winning conference record 2 times in 8 seasons and was 66-78 in PAC-12 games overall during an eight-year period that was universally considered one of the weakest eras for the conference.

That's not to say Haase has been doing any better - if anything, his record is worse. But a losing PAC-12 record in 6 of 8 years and one lone trip to the Dance in 8 seasons doesn't cut it at a school with 123 NCAA national championships.

Even with admissions constraints, we can do better.

I was gently poking fun at Win with my comment. While I do agree that expectations of UCLA and Stanford fans are different, it's still really tough to find a coach who can be successful. It's even tougher for Stanford because the pool of feasible head coaches is smaller.

My frustration stems from:
Only finishing in the top 4 of the conference (a weak conference) twice in the past 11 years
Never winning more than 11 conference games (in a weak conference) in the past 11 years
Losing 20 consecutive games to Arizona
Losing every game at Pauley Pavilion since 2005
One marquee win in the past 11 years - Kansas in the 2014 tournament
Watching a team that has trouble executing fundamentals - shooting from the field, free throws, not turning the ball over

I am not ready to give up on the program, but it's tough to put much energy behind it right now.

The program had an even worse - much worse - track record when Mike Montgomery was hired. There are good coaches out there who can be hired. I thought Haase was one of them, but it looks like he isn't.
Actually Tom Davis was one game under 500 at Stanford same as Haase now. Pitiful yes.
Is Dawkins still suing Stanford? Surely that doesn't look good to potential candidates.

From April, this was news to me:

Quote: OREM, Utah — Two-time NBA champion, former Los Angeles Lakers assistant coach, and former Stanford University basketball star Mark Madsen will officially be named the men's basketball head coach at Utah Valley University on Monday, becoming just the third coach for men's basketball in UVU's 16-year Division I history.

https://gouvu.com/news/2019/4/14/mark-ma...coach.aspx
Any rumors on where Cormac is headed?  I remember he was committed to Northwestern before we flipped him
(06-08-2019, 06:45 PM)Hurlburt88 Wrote: [ -> ]Any rumors on where Cormac is headed?  I remember he was committed to Northwestern before we flipped him
Wasn’t committed, but NW was the other school in his top 2 and a lot of people thought he’d go there.

No rumors so far beyond there being a lot of interest.
It seems to me that Muir ought to be (1) having quiet conversations right now and (2) putting a realistic short-list together. Conversation #1 should be picking up the phone and calling Mike Montgomery to ask for his opinions.

I think Haase is running up against the same problem that Dawkins had at Stanford, i.e. underperformance relative to quality of recruited athletes. And, Haase has the added problems of players voting with their feet. In many ways, Muir might be better off pulling the plug now before the talent left on the roster decides to look elsewhere. A coach coming in after this season could be looking at a long rebuild, again.

I've always wondered why the AD's didn't listen to Mike Montgomery when he left Stanford and Kal. I seem to remember that when Mike resigned, he suggested Russell Turner but Leland wanted Trent Johnson; so, Mike took Turner to the Warriors. Now, Turner has had seven consecutive winning seasons at Irvine including two NCAA berths and a sparkling 31-6 season last year. 

Mike also wanted Travis DeCuire to take the Kal job after he retired. Instead, Kal got three years of Cuonzo Martin and two 8 win seasons under Wyking Jones. Meanwhile, DeCuire is 167-109 at Montana including two NCAA tourney appearances.

I just noticed that Turner brought Blaine Taylor out of semi-retirement to be an assistant coach. Hiring Turner and Taylor would be almost like getting the band back together, although it's not clear to me that Taylor would get the welcome back after his flame out at ODU.
Of course I'm not satisfied with the current state of Cardinal basketball, but I remind myself that it was worse during my first two undergraduate years at Stanford and the men's basketball coach was Dick DiBiaso.
(06-10-2019, 05:14 PM)Papa John Wrote: [ -> ]Of course I'm not satisfied with the current state of Cardinal basketball, but I remind myself that it was worse during my first two undergraduate years at Stanford and the men's basketball coach was Dick DiBiaso.

We didn't have any trouble scoring great seats, though! 8)
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