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Full Version: Per Woodward's recordings POTUS Knew Early That COVID19 Was Very Deadly
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Sigh,

I always marveled at the idea that soccer moms in my part of the OC apparently knew about COVID's dangers (mid-February) before POTUS (early March).   

Seemed impossible, but now we know POTUS wanted to downplay the dangers for reasons I may never really fully understand.

Very disappointing leadership call IMHO.  

I wish POTUS' conversations with Bob Woodward in February were more similar to what he told USA citizens.   We will never know if it would have made a difference.  However countries that had decisive and candid early warnings from their governments fared better, so it is rather easy for me to imagine what could have been.
(09-09-2020, 10:13 AM)Farm93 Wrote: [ -> ]Sigh,

I always marveled at the idea that soccer moms in my part of the OC apparently knew about COVID's dangers (mid-February) before POTUS (early March).   

Seemed impossible, but now we know POTUS wanted to downplay the dangers for reasons I may never really fully understand.

Very disappointing leadership call IMHO.  

I wish POTUS' conversations with Bob Woodward in February were more similar to what he told USA citizens.   We will never know if it would have made a difference.  However countries that had decisive and candid early warnings from their governments fared better, so it is rather easy for me to imagine what could have been.

Not entirely get off track, but....

Some people angry with Woodward for withholding audio from Feb. until now. 

Not going to tell them they are wrong, but it's very, very likely that Trump agreed to the interview on the condition that the audio would not be released until the book's publication.

For interviews like this to exist--and today I'm very glad they do, as the comments give some insight into how Trump thinks--I think a delay is an appropriate price to pay. Curious what other think, though.
Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.
I think there's more power in releasing it now. With almost six month's hindsight, we have a better capacity to assess the magnitude of the error and the severity of the consequences of the intentional deception. There have been many times of the past four years where I'd have loved to be the fly on the wall of a focus group of Trump supporters, and right now is one of those timer.

I'd be curious to hear how they process the revelation that, contrary to both what Trump has been saying and what his followers have been loudly vocalizing, Trump knew it was dangerous and purposefully downplayed it. Do they think that's justifiable political gamesmanship? Does it change their trust in his assessment of the relative risks and benefits of masks, social distancing, etc.? Or is this just another datapoint of moral decrepitude that has already been factored into the pro-con calculus?
If bold action was taken, the American people were told the truth, and the POTUS united the country to fight the virus together, the dude would be sailing to re-election. This, more than anything else I could ever say, summarizes how incompetent and unfit for office the guy is. He had all the capabilities available to secure the country a massive victory over Covid and instead pissed it all away so the country was crushed by it.

It's like being dealt a straight flush and trading in your cards for something else because you have no clue what you are doing.

(09-09-2020, 10:44 AM)2006alum Wrote: [ -> ]I think there's more power in releasing it now. With almost six month's hindsight, we have a better capacity to assess the magnitude of the error and the severity of the consequences of the intentional deception. There have been many times of the past four years where I'd have loved to be the fly on the wall of a focus group of Trump supporters, and right now is one of those timer.

I'd be curious to hear how they process the revelation that, contrary to both what Trump has been saying and what his followers have been loudly vocalizing, Trump knew it was dangerous and purposefully downplayed it. Do they think that's justifiable political gamesmanship? Does it change their trust in his assessment of the relative risks and benefits of masks, social distancing, etc.? Or is this just another datapoint of moral decrepitude that has already been factored into the pro-con calculus?

I'll take Cognitive Dissonance for $500, Alex.
It will cause a momentary dip in Trump's approval rating by at most a couple of points (it is currently at around -10 net, based on the 538 average, and it has been within ±6 points of that for pretty much his entire presidency).

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tru...id=rrpromo

BC
Huh, I could’ve sworn I saw a post somewhere claiming Trump couldn’t have possibly done more, sooner to stop Covid because it was all the fault of the Chinese for covering up the extent and dangers of the disease. And yet, there is a recording proving Trump was well aware of the grave dangers, even as he told the American people otherwise.

You can listen to several excerpts here and I recommend listening to them.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/...index.html

Meanwhile, Tenet, the latest Christopher Nolan movie, has released in theatres and has grossed over $130 million worldwide, but only $20 million domestically. It’s as if many countries all over the world have contained Covid enough to go back to enjoying movies inside of movie theatres, while I am at home watching Bill and Ted Face the Music on Video On-Demand.
(09-09-2020, 05:52 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: [ -> ]Huh, I could’ve sworn I saw a post somewhere claiming Trump couldn’t have possibly done more, sooner to stop Covid because it was all the fault of the Chinese for covering up the extent and dangers of the disease. And yet, there is a recording proving Trump was well aware of the grave dangers, even as he told the American people otherwise.

You can listen to several excerpts here and I recommend listening to them.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/...index.html

Meanwhile, Tenet, the latest Christopher Nolan movie, has released in theatres and has grossed over $130 million worldwide, but only $20 million domestically. It’s as if many countries all over the world have contained Covid enough to go back to enjoying movies inside of movie theatres, while I am at home watching Bill and Ted Face the Music on Video On-Demand.
Too true on your recollection.   That's where my soccer mom recollection came from too.   I recall needing to say that POTUS could have/should have/must have know in early February because I had OC soccer Mom's request youth soccer refunds in mid-February because of this corona virus thing.   Now, sure I live in a community with several families from Korea as Kia and Hyundai USA HQs are nearby, but still if Korean and Korean-American soccer moms knew then POTUS should have known.   Now we know he did know but didn't want to panic us.

I am amazed that POTUS45 had that mislead rather than panic perspective.
I am disappointed that no one in the POTUS45 administration was able to persuade POTUS45 of a different option.
And shocked that even if the no panic option was deemed best POTUS45 and his administration didn't do a lot more behind the scenes in February on PPE supplies, testing, potential pandemic messaging, etc.

Didn't realize the Rest of World is enjoying movies at that rate in their new normal.   Those attending movies show the revenue benefits of honest assessments in Q1 2020, but our path is also impacting USA entertainment content creation.   Here in late 2020 it is much easier to make new content in New Zealand, Australia, Canada and even Europe than in any part of the USA.
(09-09-2020, 05:52 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: [ -> ]Huh, I could’ve sworn I saw a post somewhere claiming Trump couldn’t have possibly done more, sooner to stop Covid because it was all the fault of the Chinese for covering up the extent and dangers of the disease. And yet, there is a recording proving Trump was well aware of the grave dangers, even as he told the American people otherwise.

You can listen to several excerpts here and I recommend listening to them.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/...index.html

Meanwhile, Tenet, the latest Christopher Nolan movie, has released in theatres and has grossed over $130 million worldwide, but only $20 million domestically. It’s as if many countries all over the world have contained Covid enough to go back to enjoying movies inside of movie theatres, while I am at home watching Bill and Ted Face the Music on Video On-Demand.

Re "I could’ve sworn I saw a post somewhere ..." me too. Here, on this board. FWIW.
(09-09-2020, 10:24 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.

Probably not, but that shouldn't have been Woodward's call.

BC
(09-10-2020, 12:16 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 10:24 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.

Probably not, but that shouldn't have been Woodward's call.

BC

Well, except it would have changed 2006's ability to hold the omission against him like he does above.  Indeed, I'd argue that for practical purposes (i.e., November), not disclosing this immediately makes all the difference.  C'mon now . . . 

P.S.  What makes it Woodward's call to disclose now versus back in February?
(09-10-2020, 12:27 PM)teejers1 Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 12:16 PM)BostonCard Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 10:24 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.

Probably not, but that shouldn't have been Woodward's call.

BC

Well, except it would have changed 2006's ability to hold the omission against him like he does above.  Indeed, I'd argue that for practical purposes (i.e., November), not disclosing this immediately makes all the difference.  C'mon now . . . 

P.S.  What makes it Woodward's call to disclose now versus back in February?

Obviously it is clear that Woodward timed the release to maximize his book sales (and, probably, maximally influence the election).  What it didn't do was maximally influence the course of the pandemic.  And while dabigv13 is correct that it most likely wouldn't have made a difference, there is a possibility that having the truth out there might have influenced policy or behavior for the better.

BC
(09-09-2020, 10:24 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.

Just so I understand...you're saying that the noted, celebrated truthteller and revealer of odious, perfidious presidential wrongdoings journalist Bob Woodward would not have had an impact on the public perception of and response to the COVID pandemic had he released Trump's lies to the public thirty seconds after he recorded them?  You think it wouldn't have had an impact on Congress, on the media, on the CDC, on the public?  Particularly since a of immense proportions portion of the liberal Elite, the conservative Elite, the middle-of-the-road Elite, the Media Elite, the Medical Elite and the Political Elite hate his guts and have a massive interest in removing him from office no matter what?

Have to disagree with you.
Woodward might have only received permission to do the interviews and book if he agreed to release it when he is doing so.
(09-10-2020, 01:23 PM)Mick Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 10:24 AM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]Could have released the audio in Feb, doubt it would have changed anything besides being a headline for a day or two.

Just so I understand...you're saying that the noted, celebrated truthteller and revealer of odious, perfidious presidential wrongdoings journalist Bob Woodward would not have had an impact on the public perception of and response to the COVID pandemic had he released Trump's lies to the public thirty seconds after he recorded them?  You think it wouldn't have had an impact on Congress, on the media, on the CDC, on the public?  Particularly since a of immense proportions portion of the liberal Elite, the conservative Elite, the middle-of-the-road Elite, the Media Elite, the Medical Elite and the Political Elite hate his guts and have a massive interest in removing him from office no matter what?

Have to disagree with you.
Good point. I like your use of "elite" here Mick, basically interchangeable with "educated" and I think that's a good way to put it. I think it's a shame that the nation has such a strong current of anti-elite that underlies (among other things) MAGA. There's a lot to be said for education and I bet you're right, had we had this evidence out in the open, educated people from all sides might have been able to exert more pressure on his all-about-me highness.

Another interesting hypothetical.

I like Woodward and respect his work. I was a full-time mainstream journalist during the deep-throat years. Besides which, Robert Redford. So I'm thinking he had to keep the tapes until some agreed-upon date related to the publication of the book, by contract with either publisher or Trump himself. I don't see him letting royalties affect his timing.
Everyone knows Trump is a liar and, and most thinking people knew this was going to be serious in February (Senators sold their stocks, the media was covering the pandemic in January, the CDC obviously knew, this humble message board was sounding the alarm, none of them needed Woodward's tapes of Trump). I suspect even his base knows he is a liar, they just trust him as their Leader, and that he tells the larger truth they believe in. 

Trump when confronted with his lies only doubles down. 

So since Trump and his enablers have been running our federal response, no, I sincerely doubt these tapes would have changed a whole lot. Wouldn't have made him push for masks or better testing earlier. Wouldn't have encouraged him to "shut down". His intentions are clear, in the tapes he doesn't want to encourage panic. If the tapes came out, it would never have changed his approach, and he is the one who calls the shots unfortunately.

All the elites/anyone not on media diet of Fox News and Breitbart have known who Trump is for a while now. No one is surprised by these revelations.
(09-10-2020, 01:55 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: [ -> ]Woodward might have only received permission to do the interviews and book if he agreed to release it when he is doing so.

Woodward himself is not using that as a defense.

https://j7dfh9pbumnyhazfmcsfgm9m.apnews....edfec1d5d2

Quote:Woodward’s book, which comes out next week, draws from 18 conversations with Trump between December and July. During his AP interview, Woodward said Trump called him “out of the blue” in early February to “unburden himself” about the virus, which then had few cases in the U.S. But Woodward said that only in May was he satisfied that Trump’s comments were based on reliable information and that by then the virus had spread nationwide.

Needing to fact check the President's statements is fair (although how crazy is our timeline that fact-checking the President is a thing).  But still, that was in May.  Maybe he should have said something?

BC
I will say, that while I doubt it would have made a difference, I would have preferred he released them earlier. Maybe I'm wrong and it saves lives. This was saved for book sales.

This is a handy tracker of Trump admin actions and statements, now with Woodward interviews included on the timeline.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551...oronavirus
(09-10-2020, 02:15 PM)dabigv13 Wrote: [ -> ]I will say, that while I doubt it would have made a difference, I would have preferred he released them earlier. Maybe I'm wrong and it saves lives. This was saved for book sales.

And, more importantly, November.

BTW, what exactly does Woodward mean when he says it wasn't until May that he was satisfied "that Trump's comments were based on reliable information."  Seriously . . . what does that even mean?  The statement getting all the run (rightfully) from 2006 and others is the President knowing the virus was serious but wanting to downplay it to avoid panic.  What "reliable information" needs to be confirmed with respect to that?
Listen, if I personally had the power to influence what I and many informed Americans and former statesmen view as the most consequential election in modern history, I would maximize that opportunity.

I think the immediate potential to save lives would favor disclosure, but if you want to play the long game, a Trump win probably costs many more lives.
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