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Full Version: WBB: STAN 62 AZ 48 (Clinched Pac-12 Championship)
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I wonder, and this is not an attempt to tempt the woofing gods, what the board's reaction would be if we won the national championship, but did so in a very ugly fashion, with a close score, lots of turnovers, poor shot selection, almost losing a moderate sized lead, etc.  Would we be thrilled to win the first national title since the 90's or would we talk about how Brink needs to foul less, Jones is turnover-prone, Williams needs to be more cognizant of the shot clock before putting up a shot, and we are really not a great offensive rebounding team.

There's no question that there's work to be done.  We are not a perfect team, and as much as I wish for the above scenario to be true, the most likely outcome will be that we will lose a game at some point in the NCAA tournament.  I acknowledge that, and I do wish that we played better and made fewer mistakes.  But on balance, I am thrilled with how we've done this season, and my posts reflect that.

BC
Well, I am thrilled.  I agree with Tara and Lexi that each accomplishment this year needs an asterisk by it saying it happened during the most difficult season in Pac 8/10/12 history.  This regular season title is not only the first in 7 years, but the best of all time.

But Tara confessed to really wanting more than that for her team.  And so should the fans.  If we are going to get a national championship it would be a mistake to dwell too long on this full glass when there are some clear weaknesses that can be fixed.

When we defeat UConn in the national championship game and get Tara and Stanford their 3rd national title, then I will gladly see a full glass :)  How sweet that will be--not just earning a national championship, but the toughest and most meaningful championship in the history of WBB.  We can do it!
Maybe the best approach as a fan is a realistic combination of half-empty and half-full.  Half-empty because our offense is still a bit inconsistent, and some of our key difference-makers struggle at times.  And yes, odds are that we won't win out.  Half-full because we definitely have the talent this year, and because, well, it's been 30 years....

And I always have the feeling that we don't get our national due from the East coast mentality that for many years has radiated from Storrs, and I always want us to crush UConn, SCarolina, ND, Baylor, etc to stick out my tongue and say "take that!"

But to me it's all about managing expectations because the Natty is a wonderful and rare thing.  But gosh darn it, Tara deserves another one....
(02-23-2021, 10:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, and this is not an attempt to tempt the woofing gods, what the board's reaction would be if we won the national championship, but did so in a very ugly fashion, with a close score, lots of turnovers, poor shot selection, almost losing a moderate sized lead, etc.  Would we be thrilled to win the first national title since the 90's or would we talk about how Brink needs to foul less, Jones is turnover-prone, Williams needs to be more cognizant of the shot clock before putting up a shot, and we are really not a great offensive rebounding team.

There's no question that there's work to be done.  We are not a perfect team, and as much as I wish for the above scenario to be true, the most likely outcome will be that we will lose a game at some point in the NCAA tournament.  I acknowledge that, and I do wish that we played better and made fewer mistakes.  But on balance, I am thrilled with how we've done this season, and my posts reflect that.

BC

I would be thrilled with a one point win in a championship game.  Actually that would be more exciting for me at that moment in time than a thirty point win.  

Your bottom line crusade seems to be indirectly dissuading Cardboard viewers from discussing areas for improvement in the team and be satisfied if the win is by more than a few points.    Bringing up specific areas for improvement is one of the reasons for a sports message board.
My glass is totally full. We've only lost 2 games this year in the best conference in the country, with all the road/Covid challenges, and with a very young team. What a great season. I fully expect a Final Four and think we have a very good chance of a national championship. If we are on the other side of the bracket with UConn, I predict we will play them in the finals. I cannot wait for this year's NCAA tourney and am thankful to the basketball gods that it looks like it's actually going to get played!

On a separate topic, which is harder - winning the P12 tourney this year or making it to the Final Four? Assuming we are a 1 seed, we would need to beat seeds 16, 8, 4, and 2, assuming no upsets. An 8 seed is somewhere around the 32nd-35th best team in the country and the 4 seed around the 16th-19th. The 2 seed? About the 8th-11th best team in the country, roughly like...Arizona or UCLA (or even Oregon). To win the P12 tourney, we'll need to beat 2 teams of a #2 seed caliber. Lots of other factors - neutral site, scouting, etc., but winning the P12 tourney is going to be tough. And what a statement if we win by double digits like we just did!
Was there not moon walking after the win?  There was a bit of meteor stumbling in my house after the win but not unbridled joy.  That's more how I feel today.   Wearing my Stanford Basketball shirt and basking in the glow of watching the press conferences and dreaming of good tournament runs.  

However, during the game, especially the first half, I wanted the team to wake up and kick it into gear.  That's just what the announcer said at the half.  I think the team did that in the second half.  I was "mad" at Haley when she made those inexplicable turnovers but glad that she was finding her shot and driving to the hoop when it was available without forcing it.  I have to keep reminding myself that, as Tara said, Haley is in many ways still a freshman because of the injury last year.  Her talent makes her seem like she's older than she is.  Of Brink's fouls, I thought that only one was a silly foul (the reach over the top to knock away the pass on defense) and the rest was just some bad luck (one was Haley's fault).  Still, she will need to be extra careful and try to not do too much because her fouls tend to stick out because of her size and reach.  Teams will also be trying to draw her out to the top of the key and drive on her to get some "automatic" calls against her trying to defend those drives.  I hope our free throw shooting settles down with more time in our own gym.  I actually think that this next week and a half before the tournament are crucial to our getting ready to make a run in the tournament.  

I find myself being especially unhappy with the times we play poorly this season because I see great potential in this team.  I also am glad that we can grind out ugly wins because you can't win a tournament without that ability.  Even though I usually limit myself to only one Stanford item when I'm out and about, I will take my exercise walk in full Stanford gear today with pride.

Cheers,
Pete F.
Did we see last night how short the bench will be when there is a lot on the line? I didn't get to watch most of the game, but from the box score it looks like an 8 player rotation: Jump, Belibi and Prechtel were the only subs before the game was decided. And would Prechtel have played if not for Brink foul trouble? Why didn't Lacie play? Injured? Coaches decision? Contact tracing?
(02-23-2021, 11:22 AM)bbm233 Wrote: [ -> ]Did we see last night how short the bench will be when there is a lot on the line? I didn't get to watch most of the game, but from the box score it looks like an 8 player rotation: Jump, Belibi and Prechtel were the only subs before the game was decided. And would Prechtel have played if not for Brink foul trouble? Why didn't Lacie play? Injured? Coaches decision? Contact tracing?

Lacie's shoulder was injured in the ASU game (I think it was that game) during a collision.  She came out of the game.  It didn't look super serious but not surprised she didn't play and might be out against Cal to get completely healthy before the tournament grind.  She was there but it didn't look like she was dressed to play.

Cheers,
Pete F.
Lacie injured shoulder wasn’t suited up

Actually this is one of the shorter benches if that’s the right term. 9 players averaging 12 or more minutes.
(02-23-2021, 09:21 AM)81alum Wrote: [ -> ]and listen to Adia Barnes too to see it from the other side:

...

"They make you play ugly and they make you play to your weaknesses."  She also noted that they made McDonald take mainly midrange shots in congestion and that this was tough.

I recall a pregame quote from Barnes saying that Arizona's defense was going to work to take away what Stanford likes to do and make them go to options they are less comfortable with. It's clear she has much the same defensive philosophy as Tara, and her team is good at it. This game was not very pretty on offense exactly because both defenses are so good.
I'm thrilled BC.  The Pac-12 Championship makes me want to dance like Rerun.

[Image: ?u=http%3A%2F%2F33.media.tumblr.com%2F62...f=1&nofb=1]
Or Gene Gene the Dancing Machine

Count me among the thrilled with this team -- what it's accomplished given the circumstances is something really special -- and I don't think it's being understood or appreciated outside the Pac-12. Tara should get national coach of the year recognition for what she's done, but she's not even in the conversation.
I too am thrilled with how well this team has done... and what joy it has brought me during these covid times.. it’s the only sense of normalcy I get when watching the games because I’m completely distracted of anything else except the game and the team. I too like others gripe during the game when things are not going well but all is forgotten if it’s a win.. it’s so easy to gripe during game because it can go either way and we feel they are capable of so much. And like Tara, I want then to win the NCAA Championship!
(02-23-2021, 11:21 AM)pefloresjr Wrote: [ -> ]Was there not moon walking after the win?  There was a bit of meteor stumbling in my house after the win but not unbridled joy.  That's more how I feel today.   Wearing my Stanford Basketball shirt and basking in the glow of watching the press conferences and dreaming of good tournament runs.  

However, during the game, especially the first half, I wanted the team to wake up and kick it into gear.  That's just what the announcer said at the half.  I think the team did that in the second half.  I was "mad" at Haley when she made those inexplicable turnovers but glad that she was finding her shot and driving to the hoop when it was available without forcing it.  I have to keep reminding myself that, as Tara said, Haley is in many ways still a freshman because of the injury last year.  Her talent makes her seem like she's older than she is.  Of Brink's fouls, I thought that only one was a silly foul (the reach over the top to knock away the pass on defense) and the rest was just some bad luck (one was Haley's fault).  Still, she will need to be extra careful and try to not do too much because her fouls tend to stick out because of her size and reach.  Teams will also be trying to draw her out to the top of the key and drive on her to get some "automatic" calls against her trying to defend those drives.  I hope our free throw shooting settles down with more time in our own gym.  I actually think that this next week and a half before the tournament are crucial to our getting ready to make a run in the tournament.  

I find myself being especially unhappy with the times we play poorly this season because I see great potential in this team.  I also am glad that we can grind out ugly wins because you can't win a tournament without that ability.  Even though I usually limit myself to only one Stanford item when I'm out and about, I will take my exercise walk in full Stanford gear today with pride.

Cheers,
Pete F.

lexie had a fabulous block. seeing lexie swat the ball to the side made me wonder if the coaches should suggest that cam swat to the side, rather than down, some as well. yes, the ball might go out of bounds instead of to a stanford teammate, but swatting the ball into the stands can be quite a sight! and if she misses the ball, she's maybe less likely to smack the shooter on the arm. 

or get called for a foul when there was none. i can still picture that clean down block by kristin folkl that was called as a fifth foul and likely cost us a national championship.
I have rewatched the game and kept a close eye on Jones.  In the first quarter, she played well.  Brink missed two bunnies or else Jones would have opened the game with 2 assists.  She also got back in transition defense effectively and was guarding Cate Reese--who we managed to bottle up pretty well.  Her first turnover was off an inbounds pass that she was trying to shoot before she secured it.
(02-23-2021, 10:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, and this is not an attempt to tempt the woofing gods, what the board's reaction would be if we won the national championship, but did so in a very ugly fashion, with a close score, lots of turnovers, poor shot selection, almost losing a moderate sized lead, etc.  Would we be thrilled to win the first national title since the 90's or would we talk about how Brink needs to foul less, Jones is turnover-prone, Williams needs to be more cognizant of the shot clock before putting up a shot, and we are really not a great offensive rebounding team.

There's no question that there's work to be done.  We are not a perfect team, and as much as I wish for the above scenario to be true, the most likely outcome will be that we will lose a game at some point in the NCAA tournament.  I acknowledge that, and I do wish that we played better and made fewer mistakes.  But on balance, I am thrilled with how we've done this season, and my posts reflect that.

BC
I think that you have this backwards. Maybe I shouldn't speak for others but as for myself and what I think others believe is that they want our team to get the NC and believe it possible IF some things get cleaned up. The talent is there, but there are some observed weaknesses that could prevent us from going as far as we are capable - and these things are within the players' control and correctable, not things limited by physical limitations or by lack of skills. People are trying to be debbie downers just to find fault; they want to the team to step it up a bit more because that is what it will take to beat teams like Uconn, SC, Louisville, NC St, Md, TAM, or some hungry upset-minded team.
Here's a really nice analysis of Stanford D vs Arizona on "The Next"  -- Lots of praise for Lexie

https://www.youtube.com/embed/isvuYiXf_Dc?start=173
(02-24-2021, 02:07 PM)WBB fan Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a really nice analysis of Stanford D vs Arizona on "The Next"  -- Lots of praise for Lexie

https://www.youtube.com/embed/isvuYiXf_Dc?start=173

Thx for this.  I enjoy this sort of breakdown.
(02-24-2021, 02:16 PM)chimera Wrote: [ -> ]
(02-24-2021, 02:07 PM)WBB fan Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a really nice analysis of Stanford D vs Arizona on "The Next"  -- Lots of praise for Lexie

https://www.youtube.com/embed/isvuYiXf_Dc?start=173

Thx for this.  I enjoy this sort of breakdown.

Me too, and I think this is a really good one.
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