[81alum]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/busin...-espn.html

If this is paywalled for you, it is a distillation of a book by Ben Mathis-Lilly who examines the financial incentives to make the viewer experience terrible, and does so from the standpoint of a Michigan fan.  Harbaugh gets discussed.

https://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/title...541700352/

Here are two paragraphs from the NYT article:

It is, let’s say, 8:43 p.m. on a Saturday. You are watching a college football game that is taking place at this hour despite being played in the Midwest in November, and the people in the stadium, which is not entirely full, look very cold and a little put off. The season schedule said kickoff was at 8 p.m., but it didn’t actually take place until 8:18. In the 25 minutes that have elapsed, play has been interrupted for three commercial breaks. Each advertisement shown during these breaks has been for pickup trucks.

....

One of the top ESPN-to-Fox personalities is a longtime radio host named Colin Cowherd, who once noted, in an almost admirably honest interview with Bryan Curtis of The Ringer, that “in my business, being absolutely, absurdly wrong occasionally is a wonderful thing.” He also said he constantly tells one of his friends in the industry that “there’s no money in right,” and concluded a rumination about whether he’d been wrong about the subject of that day’s show — his accusation that a particular quarterback didn’t prepare enough for games — by asking, “Who cares?”

As I read this article, I gained insight into my own dislike of both the TV experience and also the way that TV has ruined the at-the-game experience.  The free-market simply does not work well in this unique situation, because fandom is irrational and thus defies the normal laws of supply and demand.  For the market to work, millions of viewers would have to turn off their TVs as the experience worsened.  But they don't.  They would prefer to be miserable than to miss their team's games.  This seems a little more like feeding an addiction than selling toothpaste--or pickup trucks.  Or, as the byline on the article states: "It can still be hugely lucrative to provide an experience that fans come to despise."

[81alum]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/busin...-espn.html

If this is paywalled for you, it is a distillation of a book by Ben Mathis-Lilly who examines the financial incentives to make the viewer experience terrible, and does so from the standpoint of a Michigan fan.  Harbaugh gets discussed.

https://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/title...541700352/

Here are two paragraphs from the NYT article:

It is, let’s say, 8:43 p.m. on a Saturday. You are watching a college football game that is taking place at this hour despite being played in the Midwest in November, and the people in the stadium, which is not entirely full, look very cold and a little put off. The season schedule said kickoff was at 8 p.m., but it didn’t actually take place until 8:18. In the 25 minutes that have elapsed, play has been interrupted for three commercial breaks. Each advertisement shown during these breaks has been for pickup trucks.

....

One of the top ESPN-to-Fox personalities is a longtime radio host named Colin Cowherd, who once noted, in an almost admirably honest interview with Bryan Curtis of The Ringer, that “in my business, being absolutely, absurdly wrong occasionally is a wonderful thing.” He also said he constantly tells one of his friends in the industry that “there’s no money in right,” and concluded a rumination about whether he’d been wrong about the subject of that day’s show — his accusation that a particular quarterback didn’t prepare enough for games — by asking, “Who cares?”

As I read this article, I gained insight into my own dislike of both the TV experience and also the way that TV has ruined the at-the-game experience.  The free-market simply does not work well in this unique situation, because fandom is irrational and thus defies the normal laws of supply and demand.  For the market to work, millions of viewers would have to turn off their TVs as the experience worsened.  But they don't.  They would prefer to be miserable than to miss their team's games.  This seems a little more like feeding an addiction than selling toothpaste--or pickup trucks.  Or, as the byline on the article states: "It can still be hugely lucrative to provide an experience that fans come to despise."

[cardcrimson]

"Or, as the byline on the article states: "It can still be hugely lucrative to provide an experience that fans come to despise.""

Made me think immediately of watching Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football. . . .

[cardcrimson]

"Or, as the byline on the article states: "It can still be hugely lucrative to provide an experience that fans come to despise.""

Made me think immediately of watching Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football. . . .

[Maple Leaf]

When will student athletes get a cut of media revenue? - Marketplace

When the time comes that "student" athletes get paid, I am sure the TV misery index will hit a new threshold.

[Maple Leaf]

When will student athletes get a cut of media revenue? - Marketplace

When the time comes that "student" athletes get paid, I am sure the TV misery index will hit a new threshold.

[French Rage]

There is more money to be more by more groups (networks, commentators, schools) by giving 50 million people a meh TV experience than giving 50 thousand people a great in-person experience.

[French Rage]

There is more money to be more by more groups (networks, commentators, schools) by giving 50 million people a meh TV experience than giving 50 thousand people a great in-person experience.

[cardcrimson]

. . . .and the 2022 season is underway. Nothing screams college football like a late summer Big 10 match up in Dublin, Ireland. . . .

[cardcrimson]

. . . .and the 2022 season is underway. Nothing screams college football like a late summer Big 10 match up in Dublin, Ireland. . . .

[gailtate]

I saw this one earlier this morning. Had to chuckle, especially at Mathis-Lilley's citation of the big-three, megaTV commercial sponsors: Pickup trucks, beer and insurance. When you think about it: beer + trucks = the need for insurance, right? What the the Brave New World of Big Time College Football will ensure, when all's said and done and played out is that the Disney/Murdoch universe will grow richer and richer and richer, ad infinitum. I take some comfort that my interest in college ball at this point in life amounts to a pimple on the elephant's hindquarters of the collective blue-bloods (see EUTM's Blue Nation). No harm, no foul.

[gailtate]

I saw this one earlier this morning. Had to chuckle, especially at Mathis-Lilley's citation of the big-three, megaTV commercial sponsors: Pickup trucks, beer and insurance. When you think about it: beer + trucks = the need for insurance, right? What the the Brave New World of Big Time College Football will ensure, when all's said and done and played out is that the Disney/Murdoch universe will grow richer and richer and richer, ad infinitum. I take some comfort that my interest in college ball at this point in life amounts to a pimple on the elephant's hindquarters of the collective blue-bloods (see EUTM's Blue Nation). No harm, no foul.

[chrisk]

. . . .and the 2022 season is underway. Nothing screams college football like a late summer Big 10 match up in Dublin, Ireland. . . .

Matching teams with identical 3-9/1-8 records last year. The bottom of the Big 10 West.

[chrisk]

. . . .and the 2022 season is underway. Nothing screams college football like a late summer Big 10 match up in Dublin, Ireland. . . .

Matching teams with identical 3-9/1-8 records last year. The bottom of the Big 10 West.

[TonyLima]

I saw this one earlier this morning. Had to chuckle, especially at Mathis-Lilley's citation of the big-three, megaTV commercial sponsors: Pickup trucks, beer and insurance. When you think about it: beer + trucks = the need for insurance, right? What the the Brave New World of Big Time College Football will ensure, when all's said and done and played out is that the Disney/Murdoch universe will grow richer and richer and richer, ad infinitum. I take some comfort that my interest in college ball at this point in life amounts to a pimple on the elephant's hindquarters of the collective blue-bloods (see EUTM's Blue Nation). No harm, no foul.

Love it!

[TonyLima]

I saw this one earlier this morning. Had to chuckle, especially at Mathis-Lilley's citation of the big-three, megaTV commercial sponsors: Pickup trucks, beer and insurance. When you think about it: beer + trucks = the need for insurance, right? What the the Brave New World of Big Time College Football will ensure, when all's said and done and played out is that the Disney/Murdoch universe will grow richer and richer and richer, ad infinitum. I take some comfort that my interest in college ball at this point in life amounts to a pimple on the elephant's hindquarters of the collective blue-bloods (see EUTM's Blue Nation). No harm, no foul.

Love it!

[Phogge]

I can think of one guy who is probably miserable watching anything.

[Phogge]

I can think of one guy who is probably miserable watching anything.

[Goose]

The madness behind all this is that the companies paying for these commercials actually believe they are selling product. OK, I can see getting your name out there, but after one commercial, what is the marginal benefit of the second one? I can't believe there is any. My suspicion it is one consultant assuring another consultant this is all a good marketing plan and nobody willing to say the emperor has no cloths. Hopefully some day somebody will and the madness will end.

[Goose]

The madness behind all this is that the companies paying for these commercials actually believe they are selling product. OK, I can see getting your name out there, but after one commercial, what is the marginal benefit of the second one? I can't believe there is any. My suspicion it is one consultant assuring another consultant this is all a good marketing plan and nobody willing to say the emperor has no cloths. Hopefully some day somebody will and the madness will end.

[lex24]

The madness behind all this is that the companies paying for these commercials actually believe they are selling product. OK, I can see getting your name out there, but after one commercial, what is the marginal benefit of the second one? I can't believe there is any. My suspicion it is one consultant assuring another consultant this is all a good marketing plan and nobody willing to say the emperor has no cloths. Hopefully some day somebody will and the madness will end.

You don’t think advertising works?  I’d like a further explanation on that……

Before you answer that, if you live in Calif answer these three questions: 1. What is Prop 27. 2. Who do the “Yes” folks say. It benefits 3. Besides Prop 26 name any other prop on the ballot….. (You will be able to answer this I’m sure. Most Californians can’t)

[lex24]

The madness behind all this is that the companies paying for these commercials actually believe they are selling product. OK, I can see getting your name out there, but after one commercial, what is the marginal benefit of the second one? I can't believe there is any. My suspicion it is one consultant assuring another consultant this is all a good marketing plan and nobody willing to say the emperor has no cloths. Hopefully some day somebody will and the madness will end.

You don’t think advertising works?  I’d like a further explanation on that……

Before you answer that, if you live in Calif answer these three questions: 1. What is Prop 27. 2. Who do the “Yes” folks say. It benefits 3. Besides Prop 26 name any other prop on the ballot….. (You will be able to answer this I’m sure. Most Californians can’t)

[cardcrimson]

Besides Prop 26? How about Prop 27? ;-)

How about Prop 1? Or is simply mentioning it opening up political debate?

[cardcrimson]

Besides Prop 26? How about Prop 27? ;-)

How about Prop 1? Or is simply mentioning it opening up political debate?

[BostonCard]

The thing is we all have agency.  We dont  have to watch.

BC

[BostonCard]

The thing is we all have agency.  We dont  have to watch.

BC

[lex24]

Besides Prop 26? How about Prop 27? ;-)

How about Prop 1? Or is simply mentioning it opening up political debate?

Don’t know Prop 1. Certainly don’t want to open a political debate.  (Edit: Looked it up. Knew that was on the ballot. Didn’t know the number. Not getting NEAR it on this site. :)

I can outline all the “reasons”, however,  why I should vote “Yes” for 27 and “No” for 26.  Political campaigns don’t spend  a boatload of money for TV and Radio ads because they’re ineffective. Which of course is my point.

[lex24]

Besides Prop 26? How about Prop 27? ;-)

How about Prop 1? Or is simply mentioning it opening up political debate?

Don’t know Prop 1. Certainly don’t want to open a political debate.  (Edit: Looked it up. Knew that was on the ballot. Didn’t know the number. Not getting NEAR it on this site. :)

I can outline all the “reasons”, however,  why I should vote “Yes” for 27 and “No” for 26.  Political campaigns don’t spend  a boatload of money for TV and Radio ads because they’re ineffective. Which of course is my point.

[cardcrimson]

As for advertising, when was the last time you saw a Löwenbräu commercial? When was the last time you saw Löwenbräu in the beer aisle.

Then of course, there was the 70's Miller Lite commercials. Tastes great, less filling. . . ."Miller's heavy-advertising approach worked where the two previous light beers had failed, and Miller's early production totals of 12.8 million barrels quickly increased to 24.2 million barrels by 1977 as Miller rose to 2nd place in the American brewing marketplace." from wiki. 

Granted today is a different world, but a TV campaign tied to an effective social media campaign will move the needle. Look at the hard seltzer craze as a recent example.

[cardcrimson]

As for advertising, when was the last time you saw a Löwenbräu commercial? When was the last time you saw Löwenbräu in the beer aisle.

Then of course, there was the 70's Miller Lite commercials. Tastes great, less filling. . . ."Miller's heavy-advertising approach worked where the two previous light beers had failed, and Miller's early production totals of 12.8 million barrels quickly increased to 24.2 million barrels by 1977 as Miller rose to 2nd place in the American brewing marketplace." from wiki. 

Granted today is a different world, but a TV campaign tied to an effective social media campaign will move the needle. Look at the hard seltzer craze as a recent example.

[gailtate]

As for advertising, when was the last time you saw a Löwenbräu commercial? When was the last time you saw Löwenbräu in the beer aisle.

Then of course, there was the 70's Miller Lite commercials. Tastes great, less filling. . . ."Miller's heavy-advertising approach worked where the two previous light beers had failed, and Miller's early production totals of 12.8 million barrels quickly increased to 24.2 million barrels by 1977 as Miller rose to 2nd place in the American brewing marketplace." from wiki. 

Granted today is a different world, but a TV campaign tied to an effective social media campaign will move the needle. Look at the hard seltzer craze as a recent example.

---

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965.

[gailtate]

As for advertising, when was the last time you saw a Löwenbräu commercial? When was the last time you saw Löwenbräu in the beer aisle.

Then of course, there was the 70's Miller Lite commercials. Tastes great, less filling. . . ."Miller's heavy-advertising approach worked where the two previous light beers had failed, and Miller's early production totals of 12.8 million barrels quickly increased to 24.2 million barrels by 1977 as Miller rose to 2nd place in the American brewing marketplace." from wiki. 

Granted today is a different world, but a TV campaign tied to an effective social media campaign will move the needle. Look at the hard seltzer craze as a recent example.

---

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965.

[cardcrimson]

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965. 

Very true, and only for some products. When was the last time you saw 'Dave Lennox' selling heating and air conditioning? Carrier, Trane and Lennox spent millions and millions on consumer advertising until they realized nobody cares what brand of furnace or a/c they have, as long as it blows hot and cold air.

[cardcrimson]

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965. 

Very true, and only for some products. When was the last time you saw 'Dave Lennox' selling heating and air conditioning? Carrier, Trane and Lennox spent millions and millions on consumer advertising until they realized nobody cares what brand of furnace or a/c they have, as long as it blows hot and cold air.

[Phogge]

Crimson, where can I get San Miquel Dark? Last time I had one was at the pool of the Manila Hotel.

[Phogge]

Crimson, where can I get San Miquel Dark? Last time I had one was at the pool of the Manila Hotel.

[lex24]

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965. 

Very true, and only for some products. When was the last time you saw 'Dave Lennox' selling heating and air conditioning? Carrier, Trane and Lennox spent millions and millions on consumer advertising until they realized nobody cares what brand of furnace or a/c they have, as long as it blows hot and cold air.

Yeah, but you just named 3 HVAC companies.  Name recognition is part of the battle.

I am ashamed to admit this but I donated a car years ago. Who did I donate it to? Well the company that immediately came to mind is the one that has that incredibly obnoxious ad with the kids singing that I turn off as soon as I possibly can. But I remembered the freaking telephone number so I called them and donated my car. 

Obviously that’s an example of extreme laziness related to that donation choice, to which I plead guilty. But what can I say

[lex24]

"Advertising works. On some people".   --Don Draper, Partner and Creative Director, SCDP Advertising, 1965. 

Very true, and only for some products. When was the last time you saw 'Dave Lennox' selling heating and air conditioning? Carrier, Trane and Lennox spent millions and millions on consumer advertising until they realized nobody cares what brand of furnace or a/c they have, as long as it blows hot and cold air.

Yeah, but you just named 3 HVAC companies.  Name recognition is part of the battle.

I am ashamed to admit this but I donated a car years ago. Who did I donate it to? Well the company that immediately came to mind is the one that has that incredibly obnoxious ad with the kids singing that I turn off as soon as I possibly can. But I remembered the freaking telephone number so I called them and donated my car. 

Obviously that’s an example of extreme laziness related to that donation choice, to which I plead guilty. But what can I say

[cardcrimson]

Yeah, but you just named 3 HVAC companies.  Name recognition is part of the battle.

It helps that I've worked in the industry for 30+ years. I could rattle off all the small ones, too, as well as most of the commercial refrigeration (think supermarket cold cases) brands. It's a fun party trick. . . .

---

Crimson, where can I get San Miquel Dark? Last time I had one was at the pool of the Manila Hotel.

Great question. A quick internet search comes up empty locally. . . .

[cardcrimson]

Yeah, but you just named 3 HVAC companies.  Name recognition is part of the battle.

It helps that I've worked in the industry for 30+ years. I could rattle off all the small ones, too, as well as most of the commercial refrigeration (think supermarket cold cases) brands. It's a fun party trick. . . .

---

Crimson, where can I get San Miquel Dark? Last time I had one was at the pool of the Manila Hotel.

Great question. A quick internet search comes up empty locally. . . .