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OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Printable Version

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OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Snorlax94 - 06-05-2017

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/05/harvard-withdraws-10-acceptances-for-offensive-memes-in-private-chat/?utm_term=.4941116b7700

Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10 students for creating an offensive, private sub-group from the official Class of 2021 Facebook group.

According to one website, these are some of the posts:
https://thetab.com/us/2017/06/05/harvard-memes-rescinded-69413

Overall, I agree with the decision. For one, I think the bar for rescinding an offer of admission is quite low. I remember hearing that if a high school senior slacked off late during their senior year, their offer of admission could be canceled.

I'd like to think that Stanford admits fewer Brock Turners, Harvard soccer teams, and Duke lacrosse teams than other schools, but maybe that is just wishful thinking.

I can say I lived in the same dorm as many top athletes, and every one had excellent character as far as I saw (and you see a fair amount in a dorm).

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - dabigv13 - 06-05-2017

From the limited information I've read about this, I'm a bit troubled.

Relying on admissions officers to police the taste of memes shared by 17 and 18 year olds seems pretty fraught. I remember our academic team, which sent students to Stanford, MIT, the Naval Academy, amongst others, telling dead baby jokes which were pretty morbid and probably not that funny. Thank god some old person in an office wasn't listening and making decisions about our applications.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Mick - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 01:13 PM)dabigv link Wrote:From the limited information I've read about this, I'm a bit troubled.

Relying on admissions officers to police the taste of memes shared by 17 and 18 year olds seems pretty fraught. I remember our academic team, which sent students to Stanford, MIT, the Naval Academy, amongst others, telling dead baby jokes which were pretty morbid and probably not that funny. Thank god some old person in an office wasn't listening and making decisions about our applications.


Well, it's a politically correct world, and our children get to live in it.

I honestly don't think I said or did anything prior to college that would have rescinded my acceptance.  After I got there?  Oh yes, I can think of three situations off the top of my head in which I could have been booted, including twice where I did actually end up before a Dean.  Happily, one Dean had a sense of humor and the other recognized another student for inaccurate assessment of a situation (his comment to my opponent: "Why are you wasting my time with this?").

Still, it's a white knuckle ride, because you never know what's going to put a stake in your heart.  My last child is a senior next year.  Just crossing my fingers.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - winflop - 06-05-2017

There's a world of difference between dead baby jokes and what happened here (racist, sexist, and more). Harvard reached out to more than just these ten individuals and asked them to basically explain themselves (i.e., fight for your admission).

I don't say this often but good on Harvard for having a standard of conduct and enforcing it.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - dabigv13 - 06-05-2017

Without seeing the offending posts it's hard to say if they got it right or not. Funeral boners doesn't seem that egregious to me.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Farm93 - 06-05-2017

Their limited time with Harvard already taught them an important life lesson.  Now they know.  I suspect a number of future employers would likely have done a similar thing if they discovered these future employees had inappropriate content on Youtube, Instagram, Twitter or any other social media site. 

I suspect the remaining members of the Harvard Class of 2021 will have a unique perspective on the power of, and dangers associated with, social media.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Snorlax94 - 06-05-2017

As winflop pointed out, the admissions office gave students an opportunity to explain their actions. The admissions office also asked for a full list of a person's posts, which gave an opportunity to place a single joke in a larger context.

But I think the key fact is that this was a subgroup created from the official, university-sponsored Harvard Class of 2021 (admits) Facebook group. It's one thing to talk in a dorm room, or even in a private group of your friends. It's another thing to use the university-sponsored official admit group to advertise a private group, and require people to post something offensive to the broader group to get in.

I certainly wouldn't want admits creating and advertising a group like that on an official Stanford admits page, and I could see how it could reflect negatively on the university, create the impression of a lower standard of conduct for incoming students, and even dissuade students from matriculating.

And once again as for many of these off-topic items, I'm glad this particular mess is some other school's problem.


Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Mick - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 02:28 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:Their limited time with Harvard already taught them an important life lesson.  Now they know.  I suspect a number of future employers would likely have done a similar thing if they discovered these future employees had inappropriate content on Youtube, Instagram, Twitter or any other social media site. 

I suspect the remaining members of the Harvard Class of 2021 will have a unique perspective on the power of, and dangers associated with, social media.


I wonder what Harvard's reaction will be if one of them commits suicide and publicly cites Harvard's rejection?

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Farm93 - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 02:34 PM)Mick link Wrote:I wonder what Harvard's reaction will be if one of them commits suicide and publicly cites Harvard's rejection?
If they valued it that much, they should have respected Harvard a bit more before jumping into the social media muck.  If a theoretical suicide concern was the threshold for these decisions there would be no ability to hold people to any standard because that hypothetical worst case would be worse than the intended punishment and the infraction in almost all cases.

Can you imagine an appeal with your thought as the foundation?
"Don't kick me out of school....or...or I will commit suicide and blame you."
Doubt that would be a very persuasive appeal. 

I would think those that elect to keep living will work hard to imply they weren't one of THOSE 10 at all.
"I just decided the University of South Dakota was really my true dream school."  ;) 

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - CTcard - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 03:00 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:Can you imagine an appeal with your thought as the foundation?
"Don't kick me out of school....or...or I will commit suicide and blame you."
Doubt that would be a very persuasive appeal. 

I have specifically had that appeal to a poor grade.


And what would happen if they were enrolled and then... - Redrum - 06-05-2017

...one or more had "gone Baylor"  among the Harvard community?  It's a private university.  They have no rights to protected free speech when it comes to acceptance into that community. Nor do they have the right to attend.  Stupid.  Stupid is what kids do.  If they are as gifted as a nod from Harvard admissions portends, after this they are already even smarter.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Farm93 - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 03:02 PM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=16954.msg194452#msg194452 date=1496700035]
Can you imagine an appeal with your thought as the foundation?
"Don't kick me out of school....or...or I will commit suicide and blame you."
Doubt that would be a very persuasive appeal. 

I have specifically had that appeal to a poor grade.
[/quote]
I hated kids (HS and college) that would try to lobby the teacher for a better grade for all kinds of reasons not related to the quality of their work in the class.  I always thought that appeal should include some risk.  It could go higher...or it could go lower.  That movement would then be based on the merit of the appeal.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - stupac2 - 06-05-2017

(06-05-2017, 01:21 PM)Mick link Wrote:Well, it's a politically correct world, and our children get to live in it.

I wish the term "political correctness" would die, it's like "hipster", no one knows what it means any more.



Looking through the examples on that page, I can see why Harvard rescinded some offers. A lot of those posts were well past "tasteless". Some of it seemed like edgelord tryharding, as it were, and I think it behooves an institution like Harvard to nip that shit in the bud. It's easy to look from our perspectives and say "well I did worse shit and turned out fine" but there's lots and lots of research that says this stuff festers and we end up with a worse society if we tolerate it (ie racist jokes increase tolerance for racism, etc).

Sure, those who wear the "shitlord" label gleefully will be irate, but screw them. You can't make an ideology based on flaunting the rules of polite society then get mad when you're not accepted by it.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - fullmetal - 06-05-2017

I agree with others that the material posted crosses boundaries, as did the "dark group" encouragement of member recruitment by posting R-rated memes in the main official c/o '21 page.  Furthermore, the group used the Harvard name--imagine how badly that would have looked if Harvard didn't do anything about it and the contents of the group leaked years later.  The tacit approval of silence would have been excoriated in the court of public opinion.

(This material would have violated the Fundamental Standard, I think.)

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - BostonCard - 06-05-2017

Setting aside the issue that Harvard is a private institution, "freedom of speech" does not mean freedom of consequences from your speech.

BC

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - dabigv13 - 06-05-2017

All I can say is that if I havent heard of edgelord tryharding, there must be some messed up corners of the Internet that I thankfully haven't stumbled upon.

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Mick - 06-06-2017

(06-05-2017, 03:00 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:Can you imagine an appeal with your thought as the foundation?
"Don't kick me out of school....or...or I will commit suicide and blame you."
Doubt that would be a very persuasive appeal. 


Agreed.  I wasn't talking about people who threaten suicide to drive a specific decision.  I had a girlfriend do that once when I was 19 when I broke up with her.  I called emergency services and rushed over myself.  A cop comes out of her apartment building and said "Yeah, she was really surprised that we were there."

It's not a persuasive appeal, but I wasn't referring to people who make threats.  I'm talking about a specific response to a specific action, bad reactions, off-the-ledge tragedies.  I wonder if Harvard could survive the social media scrutiny and subsequent liability, e.g., were all students treated the same, what about staff, what about professors?

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - Mick - 06-06-2017

(06-05-2017, 03:36 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16954.msg194441#msg194441 date=1496694101]Well, it's a politically correct world, and our children get to live in it.

I wish the term "political correctness" would die, it's like "hipster", no one knows what it means any more.
[/quote]

From Merriam Webster:

Definition of politically correct :
  conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated
—
political correctness
noun

Now you know what it means... ;D

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - CTcard - 06-06-2017

(06-06-2017, 06:44 AM)Mick link Wrote:I wonder if Harvard could survive the social media scrutiny and subsequent liability, e.g., were all students treated the same, what about staff, what about professors?

Do you mean you wonder if there will still be a Harvard after this?
Have to say I think so.


While it does often seem that anything goes with lawsuits (especially filing them), I think it is pretty well established that private universities have wide latitude to determine who gets in and who stays in based upon whatever criteria they choose. I suppose the students might have a breach of contract clause. my understanding is that these can often lead to tuition refunds - though in this case presumably the students haven't paid any yet. I guess they could get their deposits back.

I don't really know however. Does anyone here know of private universities being successfully sued over this sort of disciplinary action? For what remedy?

Re: OT: Harvard rescinds offer of admission to 10+ students - BostonCard - 06-06-2017

Well, on the far extreme, there is this case:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/us/suicide-texting-manslaughter-trial.html

Quote:Armed with reams of text messages, prosecutors have argued in court filings that Ms. Carter essentially caused Mr. Roy’s suicide, saying she pressured him to kill himself on numerous occasions and even discussed the best methods. They have pointed to phone records and other text messages that suggest the couple were talking on the phone even as Mr. Roy was in the car just before his death. Citing another message she sent to a friend, the prosecutors say she even told him to get back in the car at one point when he climbed out of it and was having second thoughts. If it wasn’t for Ms. Carter, the prosecutors say, Mr. Roy would not have killed himself.


BC