East Bay Stadium woes - Printable Version

East Bay Stadium woes - Printable Version

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East Bay Stadium woes - BrevinsBest - 06-07-2017

Besides the fact that there really weren't that many fan improvements to the stadium in the east bay, their stadium financing is going to sink the UC system (slight exaggeration).Â http://deadspin.com/cal-is-fucked-because-of-its-stupid-stadium-deal-1795896858

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - fullmetal - 06-07-2017

That is a lot of money though...!

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - Farm93 - 06-07-2017

Oh, a few hundred million is not THAT big of a deal.Â By FBS standards UCB (the school, not the UCB AD) has some resources.Â It is not what I want the UCs to spend money on, but funds exist to bail out yet another bad UCB AD choice.

The idea that UCB is unmatched by other public schools in the the combination of academics and athletics is pretty hard to accept.Â UCLA is as selective now with much better athletics.Â Michigan, Virginia and UNC are all pretty good schools with solid athletic departments, especially in "big-time" sports.

The one that really bothers me about UCB's situation is the belief that maintaining 30+ sports are needed to support donations to the school.Â Huh?Â

Stanford does a decent job at fundraising.Â I really don't think the idea that Stanford has a field hockey team or a men's volleyball team is a critical part of the university's fundraising effort.Â I don't think it is key to the AD's fundraising, but I am pretty confident the university's efforts would continue to thrive without those sports in the fold.

UCB AD needs some budget discipline.Â Best for them to ask their sister school for guidance.Â UCLA types are clearly much better at these things than UCBers understand.

Kal's football program is like melding... - Redrum - 06-07-2017

the Soviet Union's military responsibilities with the Netherlands' defense budget.Â How could they lose generation after generation of students >> alumni so detached from college athletics and Cal football in general?Â Now they've once again kicked the can down the road on how/what they're going to cut to get their athletics in line with their resources.Â It ain't going to be pretty and so far nobody wants to be the High Lord Executioner.

Ps: There but for fortune and Arrillaga go we.Â I remember that every time our rivals rag on our "tiny" stadium.

Re: Kal's football program is like melding... - 2006alum - 06-07-2017

(06-07-2017, 04:45 PM)Redrum link Wrote:How could they lose generation after generation of students >> alumni so detached from college athletics and ×ÉÉ football in general?Â

Re: Kal's football program is like melding... - CTcard - 06-07-2017

Wilner has a better article on the task force and the cal AD funding problems.
[And how often are those first five words ever written on this site].
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/06/college-hotline-on-cals-task-force-the-debt-vise-squandered-opportunities-donor-truth-and-the-future-of-the-athletic-department/

Another place to look to keep some cal AD issues in perspective is the annual USA Today survey of AD department budgets, reported as mandated by the NCAA. These figures come from FOI requests, so include only pubic schools.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
[This was published April 2016 and covers 2014-15. For some reason there hasn't been an updated version this year yet, at least as far as I can tell.]

Cal is listed as having the 17th smallest "subsidy" of their athletic program among the 231 Division 1 public school programs listed at $1.2 million. However, cal also has something that is very rare on this list - they actually report a significant operating deficit of $8.5 million. If you add those together, cal comes in something closer to 98th smallest subsidy. That is still better than halfway, but there aren't that many BCS programs worse (some that are higher include UVa, ASU ($19 million), Rutgers).Â

Of course that is scheduled to get worse as paying off the stadium debt progresses. Wilner says that in FY 2016 cal lost $22 million. It's tricky to figure out how that number lines up with those above, but certainly seems that a year after that USA Today survey things got much worse, though apparently still not worst in the country bad.

(06-07-2017, 05:50 PM)2006alum link Wrote:[quote author=Redrum link=topic=16961.msg194549#msg194549 date=1496879159]
How could they lose generation after generation of students >> alumni so detached from college athletics and ×ÉÉ football in general?Â

I really think folks are significantly underestimating how much the Berkeley administration drains morale and school spirit. ... It's hard to care about the school's sports when you resent the school itself.
[/quote]

I think there is a lot of underestimating how much cal students and alums identify with their school. On the topic at hand, it appears that cal does fairly well in raising donations, which is particularly notable because cal does not have a med school which is typically a major focus of such donations. [For example, see how high UCSF ranks in the surveys below, pretty amazing for being mostly just a med school.]Â

So, here is some data from press releases from Council for Aid to Education.

So, in donations collected, cal was
#18/#6 Public for 2014 http://cae.org/images/uploads/pdf/VSE-2014-Press-Release.pdf
#20/#5 Public for 2015 http://cae.org/images/uploads/pdf/VSE_2015_Press_Release.pdf
not top 20 for 2016 (6 public schools made the list) http://cae.org/images/uploads/pdf/VSE-2016-Press-Release.pdf

As for giving to athletics, the USA Today chart has some info if you click on a school, but it is not easily ranked.
So, donations for FY 15, FY 14, FY 13, all in millions:
CalÂ Â Â Â $22.6, $22.7, $26.1, and considerably less before that.
UCLAÂ Â $16.8, $16.2, $14.4
UWÂ Â Â Â $22.8, $24.0, $26.6
ArizonaÂ $21.9, $44.3 (!), $16.4
Colorado $10.3, $10.5, $12.7
UtahÂ Â Â $8.0, $10.0, $7.5
Doesn't seem that cal is particularly behind on the donation front.

Re: Kal's football program is like melding... - Mick - 06-08-2017

(06-07-2017, 05:50 PM)2006alum link Wrote:[quote author=Redrum link=topic=16961.msg194549#msg194549 date=1496879159]
How could they lose generation after generation of students >> alumni so detached from college athletics and ×ÉÉ football in general?Â

I really think folks are significantly underestimating how much the Berkeley administration drains morale and school spirit. It really doesn't even have much to do with athletics per se - it has to do with waitlists (and thus five-year majors to complete requirements), heartless and uncaring admins, archaic class registration systems, of exceedingly large proportions class sizes, limited direct faculty interaction, and decaying plant. It's hard to want to root and donate to a school that treats you like cattle being herded through four years of educational stockyards. Unfortunately for the AD, I think a substantial amount of this is entirely beyond his/her control, and it won't change simply because there's a more charismatic football coach. Just about every strong Stanford Athletics fan/alum I know also loved their experience at Stanford as a student. It's hard to care about the school's sports when you resent the school itself.
[/quote]

I make the following comments noting that as a non-Stanford alum, I have an inordinate amount of respect for C.al.Â I had one grandfather at Stanford, another at C.al.Â I appreciate the mission, and I fondly recall the days when the State of California invested in the future (the UC and CSU systems and the junior colleges) and not the past (various retirement and benefit packages).

Based upon the tours each of my sons took in their junior years, along with what they'd heard from their friends, they felt the same way as Redrum.Â I remember the slightly bizarre tour we took in 2009.Â The guide kept assuring the very large group that they would get enough to eat (good to know), but to count on five years until graduation with six years not uncommon and seven years not unheard of.Â Same comments on class sizes, administration, registration and housing.Â Impressions ranged from very dispiriting to a f'ing nightmare.Â Both of my boys told me that UC Berkeley would be, by far, their last choice (save for U$C, one of them told me they'd rather go to a juco for two years than U$C at all).

They didn't have anything against public education, UCLA was their choice after the Ivies.

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - 2006alum - 06-08-2017

Thanks, Mick. Yes, that was my impression from the undergraduates I taught at Berkeley and, frankly, my own experience as a C.al student. Berkeley as a graduate student is a very different experience, and I have no regrets whatsoever about my choice, but boy oh boy, it definitely made me realize how different the Stanford vs. Berkeley student experience is. Notwithstanding very close connections with faculty there, there is no love lost between me and the administration, and I can't imagine ever donating to any sort of general fund at Berkeley in any capacity. I suspect the vast majority of alums feel similarly, and the fact that the University of Arizona - with a far less successful and wealthy alumni body - can generate greater donations than C.al suggests something about whether C.al alums enjoyed their experience with the administration enough to want to support it.Â

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - stupac2 - 06-08-2017

Speaking of "why would you SAY that?" during a tour at Cal, when my wife was visiting to check out the grad school they guide would not stop comparing everything (campus, facilities, etc) to Stanford. Meanwhile, the next week at Stanford, no one said a thing about Cal...

Re: Kal's football program is like melding... - BostonCard - 06-08-2017

(06-07-2017, 10:16 PM)CTcard link Wrote:Wilner has a better article on the task force and the ×ÉÉ AD funding problems.
[And how often are those first five words ever written on this site].

Actually, Wilner writes good articles about the financial aspects of college athletics.Â Everything from the Cal debt debacle to the P12Nets to the financial health of the various conferences, Wilner puts in the work, does the analysis and does a good job explaining news items at the intersection of business and sports.

Where he really struggles is on actually covering the sport.Â It's almost as if he was a business reporter who drew the sports beat.

BC

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - fullmetal - 06-08-2017

It does seem that he likes to stray from conventional wisdom a lot, to poor effect.Â But his peers seem to think he's a good writer: https://the5thdown.com/2013/11/04/san-jose-mercury-news-jon-wilner-named-fwaa-beat-writer-of-the-year/

I think that he's just doing what any journalist these days needs to do -- generate clicks and views, and sometimes controversial opinions do just that.

Re: Kal's football program is like melding... - CTcard - 06-08-2017

(06-08-2017, 08:50 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:Actually, Wilner writes good articles about the financial aspects of college athletics.Â ...
Where he really struggles is on actually covering the sport.Â

I agree, and have stated just that several times on this forum.

Up above I was trying to give a nod towards the general tenor of the board ... and be a little humourous.

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - ColoradoTree - 06-08-2017

(06-08-2017, 08:44 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:Speaking of "why would you SAY that?" during a tour at ×ÉÉ, when my wife was visiting to check out the grad school they guide would not stop comparing everything (campus, facilities, etc) to Stanford. Meanwhile, the next week at Stanford, no one said a thing about ×ÉÉ...

This seems right on, and I'll follow it up with a comment on the Stanford-cal rivalry in general.Â Once the fervor of freshman year subsided, and I started to meet more Berkeley students and start thinking about what would be next for me after undergrad, I kept being surprised at how intense the dislike was for Stanford.Â At that point, I'd reached the "obviously I want Stanford to win, and it particularly sucks to lose to Cal, but I'd go to grad school there, no problem" stage of the Stanford-Cal rivalry.Â I really wanted to win, and that win meant a great deal, but I didn't hate Cal folks.Â But the Berkeley students I met simply could not let it go.Â Their fervor never seemed to subside, and the fact that we didn't seem to hate them as much as they hated us seemed to make their hate burn even hotter.Â

That said, I hope Berkeley can right its fiscal ship, though the situation sure seems dire.Â As much as Cal's mediocre performance has diminished Big Game in recent years, we are better served by Cal football existing and Cal athletics existing in as many of our sports as possible.Â Every Stanford team should get to experience the joy of that rivalry, even when we're not always on the winning side of it.Â Unfortunately, it looks like cutting sports is inevitable.Â

I know that baseball, men's and women's gymnastics, women's lacrosse, and rugby were on the chopping block last time around.Â If sports are to be cut at Cal, what would be the most/least painful cuts, both from Cal's perspective and from Stanford's perspective?Â Selfishly, I hope the Cal women's tennis team survives--our matches with them are almost always incredible drama with both teams having national ambitions.Â And the swimming program is useful for our country's Olympic hopes.Â What do you folks think?Â

The Weenies need a new stadium sponsor. - SUBuddha - 06-09-2017

http://www.dailycal.org/2017/06/08/memorial-kabam-pulls-name-football-field/

No more Kabam field.

Re: The Weenies need a new stadium sponsor. - OutsiderFan - 06-09-2017

Dumbest naming rights deal I've ever seen.Â Ca.l is lucky Kabam decided to forego its remaining year.Â They still get the money, plus can get a new, more appropriate sponsor.

Wilner - Redrum - 06-09-2017

(06-08-2017, 08:50 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=CTcard link=topic=16961.msg194555#msg194555 date=1496898960]
Wilner has a better article on the task force and the ×ÉÉ AD funding problems.
[And how often are those first five words ever written on this site].

Actually, Wilner writes good articles about the financial aspects of college athletics.Â Everything from the ×ÉÉ debt debacle to the P12Nets to the financial health of the various conferences, Wilner puts in the work, does the analysis and does a good job explaining news items at the intersection of business and sports.

Where he really struggles is on actually covering the sport.Â It's almost as if he was a business reporter who drew the sports beat.

BC
[/quote]

I think, despite his gift at the peripheral business aspects of the sport,Â Wilner just seemed to have a stick up his bum on the subject of Stanford sports.Â For me, Wilner's wacky, obsessive manufacture of the Harbaugh-office-shower-remodel-cost "scandal" pretty much sums up his golden years as a Merc sportswriter.Â There was another manufactured issue about the wording of a sign along El Camino, the details of which I have, mercifully perhaps,Â forgotten.

If he is providing insights into to larger world of the nation's sports machine, good.Â May his niche always be far from Stanford football.

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - Nan3cy - 06-09-2017

I am repeating myself, for which I apologize, but 15 or so years ago some good friends of mine went to the C.al-UCLA football game in Berkeley (it was Parents' Weekend and their son was a frosh.) They were incredulous at how much of the conversation around them focused on how much the speakers hated Stanford. This was at a C.al-UCLA game! Can you imagine being at a Stanford-U$C game and spending the game talking about the weenies?

Re: Wilner - CTcard - 06-09-2017

(06-09-2017, 10:20 AM)Redrum link Wrote:I think, despite his gift at the peripheral business aspects of the sport,Â Wilner just seemed to have a stick up his bum on the subject of Stanford sports.Â

Of course the berkleyites believe that stick is on the subject of cal sports, and that Wilner is unrelentingly Stanford biased.

My own take is that Wilner ...
bends over backwards to not be a homer,
wants to take unconventional positions,
wants to be more than a sports writer.

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - Farm93 - 06-09-2017

(06-09-2017, 10:22 AM)Nan3cy link Wrote:I am repeating myself, for which I apologize, but 15 or so years ago some good friends of mine went to the C.al-UCLA football game in Berkeley (it was Parents' Weekend and their son was a frosh.) They were incredulous at how much of the conversation around them focused on how much the speakers hated Stanford. This was at a C.al-UCLA game! Can you imagine being at a Stanford-U$C game and spending the game talking about the weenies?

It seems like UCB needs this rivalry to take a certain tone as an easy call to action for students and alums.

They have used that anti-Stanford thing for a few decades now.Â And since they use it so consistently at every turn the people at UCB must just come to accept that everyone at UCB has a similar view.Â Those that are turned off by that type of obsessive need to compare to some other entity likely do not become part of that community.Â Leaving a community of like minded individuals that yearn to compare their school to Stanford.

Re: East Bay Stadium woes - Nan3cy - 06-09-2017

(06-09-2017, 03:32 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:[quote author=Nan3cy link=topic=16961.msg194622#msg194622 date=1497028978]
I am repeating myself, for which I apologize, but 15 or so years ago some good friends of mine went to the C.al-UCLA football game in Berkeley (it was Parents' Weekend and their son was a frosh.) They were incredulous at how much of the conversation around them focused on how much the speakers hated Stanford. This was at a C.al-UCLA game! Can you imagine being at a Stanford-U$C game and spending the game talking about the weenies?