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Jonathan Martin Charged - DC 86 - 03-20-2018

Charged with four counts of making criminal threats and one count of carrying a loaded firearm.

The article says that he was in a mental health facility as of earlier this month, not clear if he remains there.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22844855/former-nfl-offensive-lineman-jonathan-martin-facing-charges-following-instagram-post-last-month



Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - JustAnotherFan - 03-20-2018

The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - stupac2 - 03-20-2018

(03-20-2018, 11:35 AM)JustAnotherFan link Wrote:  The IG post is "making criminal threats"? Please.

Filing these types of charges against someone who is already hurting and needs help is not the way to help them.

Isn't filing these types of charges often a way to prod someone into a treatment regimen that they might be resisting? I've read of cases where charges were filed with the encouragement of family. I obviously don't know if that's the case here, but it's not obviously absurd to me.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - JustAnotherFan - 03-20-2018

Prosecutors do not have a history of filing charges to help people. However, they do have a history of breaking people who are already on edge. I'd love to see how often this DA has dropped charges if the person entered into rehab.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - stupac2 - 03-21-2018

(03-20-2018, 08:25 PM)JustAnotherFan link Wrote:  Prosecutors do not have a history of filing charges to help people. However, they do have a history of breaking people who are already on edge. I'd love to see how often this DA has dropped charges if the person entered into rehab.

I mean, I was literally just reading an article about a mentally troubled guy who had this happen to him (his family encouraged the filling of charges to get him into treatment), but sure, it never happens.

I obviously don't know the system-wide percentages on intentions of charges in cases like these, and I understand if your prior is "the justice system is messed up and heartless", but I don't think a knee-jerk conclusion that harsh is justified.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - Trevmiesterj - 03-21-2018

Quote:Martin is due back in court April 25 for a preliminary hearing. If convicted as charged, he faces up to six years in custody.

Based on JMarts history of being bullied and taking in context the comment he made on Instagram I don't see enough criminal intent to warrant going to jail. 

Honestly, is prison a real possibility in this case?  The very idea of that seems incredibly excessive and downright sad.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - CornFed - 03-21-2018

I have been a volunteer in the drug and alcohol recovery and treatment sector in California for a dozen years or so.  I have met and talked to probably twenty people who were given a choice between jail time and 30-60 days of rehab.  Many of them have established meaningful sobriety.

It's not exactly the same as the issues with which Jonathan is coping, but it's certainly similar.  I'm sure it is case by case, and such decisions have all been issued by the judges in the cases with which I am familiar.  It would be an impressive individual who, as a prosecutor, could recommend treatment in lieu of prison.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - JustAnotherFan - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 04:38 PM)CornFed link Wrote:  I have met and talked to probably twenty people who were given a choice between jail time and 30-60 days of rehab.  Many of them have established meaningful sobriety.

As you suggest, that is not fully comparable here.

It is one thing to have someone in the system and work out a deal for them where they have an option to do treatment instead of prison, and it is another thing to issue a warrant for arrest because the prosecutor is on a mission to "help" a person.

More likely is the DA wanted to cover their ass if Jonathan ever did something so no one could ask them why they did not take the IG post seriously.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - CornFed - 03-21-2018

Just wanted to emphasize that all of those people were charged with felonies.  I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest that their situations differed from Jonathan's because they were "in the system".  I think the differentiation derives from the specific treatments available to those suffering purely emotional/ psychological afflictions vs. the possibility of directly treating the addiction.  The courts may be more comfortable (or accustomed) to the trade-off between prison and treatment when it relates to substance abuse.  Or not.  Maybe it is equally true of schitzophenia or other severe forms of psychological struggles.  I don't really know on that side of the issue.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - winflop - 03-21-2018

I think we should all take a breath and wait until more facts come out. For all we know, there could have been multiple conversations with Martin already about going to rehab and getting other help. Maybe he refused to do any of that, and left the DA with no choice but to charge him to protect others.

We just don't know. I just hope he get the help he clearly desperately needs.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - lex24 - 03-21-2018

Seriously?  Given what is happening I simply don’t understand the comment.  I’m sure he will get a psyche eval.  But threats such as he made can’t be ignored.


(03-21-2018, 08:55 AM)Trevmiesterj link Wrote:  
Quote:Martin is due back in court April 25 for a preliminary hearing. If convicted as charged, he faces up to six years in custody.

Based on JMarts history of being bullied and taking in context the comment he made on Instagram I don't see enough criminal intent to warrant going to jail. 

Honestly, is prison a real possibility in this case?  The very idea of that seems incredibly excessive and downright sad.


Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - JustAnotherFan - 03-21-2018

(03-21-2018, 07:50 PM)CornFed link Wrote:  Just wanted to emphasize that all of those people were charged with felonies.  I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest that their situations differed from Jonathan's because they were "in the system".  I think the differentiation derives from the specific treatments available to those suffering purely emotional/ psychological afflictions vs. the possibility of directly treating the addiction.  The courts may be more comfortable (or accustomed) to the trade-off between prison and treatment when it relates to substance abuse.  Or not.  Maybe it is equally true of schitzophenia or other severe forms of psychological struggles.  I don't really know on that side of the issue.

There is a brobdingnagian difference between someone who is (1) arrested, indicted, prosecuted, and convicted, versus (2) DA seeks out an indictment for from the grand jury without an arrest. Every indication from your prior post suggests that all of the people you know were already caught up in the system and the prosecutors were willing to work something out for the defendant. That clearly was not the case with Martin. He was not arrested. The DA had a warrant issued without a prior arrest. This was most likely a political move, as the DA is a political office.

Prosecutors or defense attorneys are encouraged to jump in here.

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - pefloresjr - 03-21-2018

Let me start by saying that my sincere hope is that Jonathan Martin gets the help he needs to work his way through difficult times. 

As Winflop points out, there is no way for us to know the true details of the decision making process that went into the filing of charges.  I can say as a 22 year California prosecutor at the county and state level that it is not at all unusual for defense attorneys to be in contact with the prosecution prior to the filing of charges.  The defense attorney is typically providing information to the charging deputy about the mental health status of the suspect, the treatment that they are getting, and the ongoing treatment they intend to get.  The prosecutor will consider all the information given but is obviously not solely focused on the best treatment options for the defendant.  The protection of the public and the goal of holding all suspects accountable for their conduct would have higher priority but treatment for the defendant is typically considered in the evaluation of what charges or plea conditions might be needed to protect public safety. 

"Politics" always plays a role in the charging decision because of the responsibility that elected district attorneys have to try to keep the public safe.  The timing of Martin's post is a big factor here because it came within weeks of 17 deaths at the Parkland school shooting in Florida.  Many legitimate questions have been raised about the failure of law enforcement to intervene when they had prior information and contact with the school shooter.  Every prosecutor would be wary of making a decision to do nothing in the face of Martin's post that included a weapon and comments that shut down an LA high school because of the perceived threat. 

When I first saw Martin's post, I assumed that he would be arrested and charged.  The fact that he was not arrested when the police first contacted him because they determined that there was no immediate danger bodes well for him but is only one fact in a complex situation.  When I read that he was charged, my assumption was, and still is, that he will likely be offered a deal that gives him the opportunity to avoid jail time and the possibility of having his charges dismissed or reduced to misdemeanors.  Mental health treatment is often included in the conditions for release on bail, in a pre-plea diversion program, and/or in post plea probation conditions.  Regardless of whether there is a pre or post plea deal, the courts, probation department, and prosecutor, would have regular updates and assurance that Martin is following the program recommended by a mental health professional.  That will satisfy the prosecutor's duty to keep the public safe while also considering the defendant's need for mental health treatment.  Martin should have the resources to pay for private treatment but many California counties offer Mental Health Court for low income defendants that provide the same opportunity. 

It is important to realize that four counts of felony threats under California Penal Code section 422 carry very serious potential consequences for Martin.  A felony 422 is considered a serious felony and is a strike for purposes of any future felony convictions that are serious or violent.  If the defense can get a deal reducing the charges to misdemeanors after successful completion of 3 to 5 years of probation and treatment, Martin should take it.  Any misdo conviction would not count as a strike prior and would not  need to be disclosed in most job applications. 

The defense has some pretty good arguments on their side in this case but a defendant can be found guilty in a criminal threat case in California even if the defendant had no actual intent or ability to carry out the threat.  If the defendant intended to issue the threat of great bodily harm and the target was in actual, reasonable sustained fear that the threat would be carried out, the defendant can be convicted.  We would need to know many more facts to truly go through the elements of the crime to determine if there is sufficient evidence to support a reasonable probability of getting a conviction. 

One final note, as a career prosecutor, I have never sought to break people who are on edge but have tried to find the best balance possible that considers public safety, the specific facts of each alleged crime, and the full background of the defendant.  It is impossible to know and predict the future or the perfect course of action in the criminal context.  I hope Martin gets a fair deal and succeeds in a robust mental health program. 

Cheers,
Pete F. 

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - needle - 03-22-2018

Thanks for the post, Pete!



Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - Leftcoast - 03-22-2018

That was a much appreciated window into a prosecutor's world view - Thanks, Pete. 

Re: Jonathan Martin Charged - CornFed - 03-22-2018

Yes, thank you Pete.  Your explanation provided great insight to the issues to be weighed.  I'm grateful that the process tries to balance protection of the community with efforts to guide people with mental health issues into treatment.  I hope Jonathan's case is resolved in a way that helps him find peace.

RE: Jonathan Martin Charged - Hurlburt88 - 05-24-2018

And now I see that Mr. Martin's nemesis, one Ritchie Incognito, is in psychiatric detention for throwing a dumbbell at someone in a gym.

RE: Jonathan Martin Charged - OutsiderFan - 05-24-2018

(05-24-2018, 08:35 AM)Hurlburt88 Wrote:  And now I see that Mr. Martin's nemesis, one Ritchie Incognito, is in psychiatric detention for throwing a dumbbell at someone in a gym.

"What if I told you an NFL player bullied a teammate to the point he was traded, both players later were diagnosed with mental illness and came back together to help others deal with this little talked about disease?  ESPN films presents "Tears of toughness" a 30-30 film by Spike Lee."

Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see this happen a few years from now?  It would appear both Incognito and Martin have some mental illness issues, and it seems like it might be a good idea for them to get together with mental illness doctors to share their stories and try to help each other, as they both need help.

RE: Jonathan Martin Charged - Hurlburt88 - 05-24-2018

With you on this.   The latest I read is that Incognito thinks the feds are following him.   A lot going on...

RE: Jonathan Martin Charged - JustAnotherFan - 05-24-2018

(05-24-2018, 09:05 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Seriously, would anyone be surprised to see this happen a few years from now?  It would appear both Incognito and Martin have some mental illness issues, and it seems like it might be a good idea for them to get together with mental illness doctors to share their stories and try to help each other, as they both need help.

While this may make for a good movie, this sounds like a terrible idea, IMHO. Bringing a victim and abuser together for anything other than some form of restorative justice sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.