Meanwhile in other sports - Printable Version

Meanwhile in other sports - Printable Version

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Meanwhile in other sports - Spiny_Norman - 09-09-2018

It was a great weekend for Stanford sports all around.

#1 Women's soccer knocked off Notre Dame 3-1 on Friday and just beat #2 UNC in overtime 2-1. Look for video of Catarina Macario's incredible individual effort to set up the game winner by Madison Haley. Spectacular play.

#4 Women's volleyball participated in the Big 10-P12 challenge at Maples. They defeated a young (but still #5) Penn State team 3-0 on Friday and #1 Minnesota today 3-1. Minnesota also lost Friday to Oregon. Stanford faces Texas on Tuesday at Maples and again next weekend in Austin before starting the P12 season.

The Men's soccer team got its first win of the season on Friday, 2-0 vs #16 USF.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - TheFarm07 - 09-09-2018

#4 Men's Water Polo also demolished their competition in New Jersey beating St. Francis Brooklyn, Johns Hopkins and Navy by a combined score of 59-15.

#20 Women's field hockey also bounced back from a 0-3 start to the season by sweeping all 3 games in Indiana outscoring the competition 20-2.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Griffins78 - 09-09-2018

Davidson and Xiao were both injured by North Carolina physical play.

WSoc: #Q#^$#. And F#*$ Anson Dorrance. - Viking_Guy - 09-09-2018

Spiny--

Watched the women's soccer game today, and the Notre Dame game on Friday.

The one thing you didn't report, and the reason for my header: late in the first half, Tierna Davidson gathered the ball under pressure, and tipped it wide toward the left of the box. Just as she tipped it, a Tar Heel,I think #47 Alex Kimball, comes sliding in. The tackle wasn't late, but she came in studs up with her foot 6 inches off the ground, and caught Tierna flush on the shin. Davidson went straight down and was lying on the ground sobbing, and I was afraid the tackle had broken her ankle. She had to be helped off the field and from the game.

The referee gave a yellow, but it was the only one he issued all day, as the game got progressively more chippy. I especially thought Madison Haley was getting hacked pretty regularly without drawing a call, much less a warning or a card.

Before that, Stanford had really been dominating the game pretty thoroughly. UNC had their best run of play as Stanford tried to recover in the opening 15 minutes or so of the second half, but the play was much more even without the best player in college anchoring our backline in her first game back from WNT duty. But a wonderful goal from Sophia Smith (a 21-yarder she launched after cutting from the left top of the box across, and curled in hitting the inside of the bottom of the far post) put Stanford up 1-0.

UNC tied it on a scramble off a free kick from about 40 yards out launched into the box, that pinballed a bit before falling onto the foot of Tar Heel Brianna Pinto, who blasted it home from about 13 yards to the left side through traffic in about the 80th minute. Both teams had half-chances late, but regulation ended in a tie.

Overtime, UNC took an early long shot that Jahansouz gathered in. Then Macario went to work. On the right side of the box, she beat one defender, cut around another, then beat the first defender again, working toward the endline about 10 yards off the post. On the endline, she held off two defenders, then hammered a ball on the ground through the inside defender's legs, finding Haley 3 yards off the front post, and Madison redirected just inside the near post over a sprawling goalie's foot.

The reason for my ire at Anson Dorrance? Goes back a long way, but his teams have always pushed the limits of physicality, and at times gone over them. His great success in the 80s and 90s was in part based on a rather ruthless approach - get big, physical players and train them to an edge in a Darwinian survival set of practices, then turn them loose on teams that were not as big, not as fast, and run them into the ground. In an era where there weren't that many players whose skills could overcome physicality, it worked really well.

My particular start on that story was a game against them in Moraga in 2002. Stanford had one player, Alisan Pabon, who was torching the Tar Heels from her right back position early in the match, and she was the one player who was a clear advantage to Stanford on the field. On 3 different possessions within 5 minutes, Tar Heels players lofted long balls into Pabon's corner, and, as she went to collect them, or shepherd them out of bounds over the touch or end lines, went clattering into her from behind hard, drawing a couple of fouls. But also taking Pabon's legs out from under her; she wasn't the same threatening player for the rest of the match.

Did Dorrance call for that play? Probably not. But did the mindset he instilled in his team lead to it, or to today's sliding through Davidson studs up? It certainly didn't stop it, that's for certain.

Dorrance raised the level of women's soccer in the U.S., and won resources for the game through his team's success that have enabled its development. But I also think that style is where especially the women's national team is stuck. You can be successful as a team early in your development by being faster and more physical than the other side, and it's difficult for a player to develop technically when winning games up and down the age groups are what gets coaches paid. So we get a national side of fast, physical, and occasionally technically well-trained players, which wins us CONCACAF. But as the rest of the world starts to catch up in women's sports, soccer especially, that will not be enough. We're already seeing more technically proficient sides beat the U.S. in age-group competitions, and we've seen it start to take hold at the full national level - France, Japan, and other teams are at least equally technically to the U.S. at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. knocked out in the WWC next year in the semis or earlier.

Sorry if this is a bit one-sided, but watching that tackle (and the announcers' lack of reaction to a studs up high boot against one of the best players in the country) got me a bit... incensed.

VG

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - BobK - 09-09-2018

I was at all four of the WVB Games plus football of course. What a great weekend
Our volleyball team is outstanding
Plummer is the best in America. Come on out to watch

RE: WSoc: #Q#^$#. And F#*$ Anson Dorrance. - TheFarm07 - 09-09-2018

(09-09-2018, 07:49 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: Spiny--

Watched the women's soccer game today, and the Notre Dame game on Friday.

The one thing you didn't report, and the reason for my header: late in the first half, Tierna Davidson gathered the ball under pressure, and tipped it wide toward the left of the box. Just as she tipped it, a Tar Heel,I think #47 Alex Kimball, comes sliding in. The tackle wasn't late, but she came in studs up with her foot 6 inches off the ground, and caught Tierna flush on the shin. Davidson went straight down and was lying on the ground sobbing, and I was afraid the tackle had broken her ankle. She had to be helped off the field and from the game.

The referee gave a yellow, but it was the only one he issued all day, as the game got progressively more chippy. I especially thought Madison Haley was getting hacked pretty regularly without drawing a call, much less a warning or a card.

Before that, Stanford had really been dominating the game pretty thoroughly. UNC had their best run of play as Stanford tried to recover in the opening 15 minutes or so of the second half, but the play was much more even without the best player in college anchoring our backline in her first game back from WNT duty. But a wonderful goal from Sophia Smith (a 21-yarder she launched after cutting from the left top of the box across, and curled in hitting the inside of the bottom of the far post) put Stanford up 1-0.

UNC tied it on a scramble off a free kick from about 40 yards out launched into the box, that pinballed a bit before falling onto the foot of Tar Heel Brianna Pinto, who blasted it home from about 13 yards to the left side through traffic in about the 80th minute. Both teams had half-chances late, but regulation ended in a tie.

Overtime, UNC took an early long shot that Jahansouz gathered in. Then Macario went to work. On the right side of the box, she beat one defender, cut around another, then beat the first defender again, working toward the endline about 10 yards off the post. On the endline, she held off two defenders, then hammered a ball on the ground through the inside defender's legs, finding Haley 3 yards off the front post, and Madison redirected just inside the near post over a sprawling goalie's foot.

The reason for my ire at Anson Dorrance? Goes back a long way, but his teams have always pushed the limits of physicality, and at times gone over them. His great success in the 80s and 90s was in part based on a rather ruthless approach - get big, physical players and train them to an edge in a Darwinian survival set of practices, then turn them loose on teams that were not as big, not as fast, and run them into the ground. In an era where there weren't that many players whose skills could overcome physicality, it worked really well.

My particular start on that story was a game against them in Moraga in 2002. Stanford had one player, Alisan Pabon, who was torching the Tar Heels from her right back position early in the match, and she was the one player who was a clear advantage to Stanford on the field. On 3 different possessions within 5 minutes, Tar Heels players lofted long balls into Pabon's corner, and, as she went to collect them, or shepherd them out of bounds over the touch or end lines, went clattering into her from behind hard, drawing a couple of fouls. But also taking Pabon's legs out from under her; she wasn't the same threatening player for the rest of the match.

Did Dorrance call for that play? Probably not. But did the mindset he instilled in his team lead to it, or to today's sliding through Davidson studs up? It certainly didn't stop it, that's for certain.

Dorrance raised the level of women's soccer in the U.S., and won resources for the game through his team's success that have enabled its development. But I also think that style is where especially the women's national team is stuck. You can be successful as a team early in your development by being faster and more physical than the other side, and it's difficult for a player to develop technically when winning games up and down the age groups are what gets coaches paid. So we get a national side of fast, physical, and occasionally technically well-trained players, which wins us CONCACAF. But as the rest of the world starts to catch up in women's sports, soccer especially, that will not be enough. We're already seeing more technically proficient sides beat the U.S. in age-group competitions, and we've seen it start to take hold at the full national level - France, Japan, and other teams are at least equally technically to the U.S. at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. knocked out in the WWC next year in the semis or earlier.

Sorry if this is a bit one-sided, but watching that tackle (and the announcers' lack of reaction to a studs up high boot against one of the best players in the country) got me a bit... incensed.

VG

Ugh, that sucks. Didn't know that about the UNC coach. Hopefully Davidson's injury is not serious, though it sounds like it is...

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - oldalum - 09-09-2018

The center ref was horrible, had no control of the game. If he'd called some obvious fouls and given out a yellow card or two earlier, perhaps Davidson does not get hurt on that play. Boissiere was injured by UNC in her very first game 3 years ago and missed 2 years of soccer as a result. I can't think of another team we've played that has inflicted such injuries on us, and I don't think it's random or coincidental, it's the style of play.

I've been a non-fan of Dorrance since I saw an interview in which he was whining about how Stanford had an unfair recruiting advantage over UNC because of our Rodin sculpture garden!! I am not making this up, he was completely serious. As if UNC's low admission standards for athletes doesn't give him an advantage in recruiting a team of top players.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - fullmetal - 09-10-2018

Was the game at UNC? That sounds like some home cookin' shenanigans >:( Surely a game of this magnitude wouldn't have been staffed by inadvertently incompetent referees...

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - BostonCard - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 12:07 AM)fullmetal Wrote: Was the game at UNC? That sounds like some home cookin' shenanigans >:( Surely a game of this magnitude wouldn't have been staffed by inadvertently incompetent referees...

Game was at home. Here are the highlights (and injury lowlights; in addition to Davidson's injury, Zhao also looked like she may have hurt a knee).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bavg4ZqBxM

But that Macario play was better than advertised. She basically took on 4 defenders, in a sequence that would have made Messi proud.

BC

RE: WSoc: #Q#^$#. And F#*$ Anson Dorrance. - Mick - 09-10-2018

(09-09-2018, 07:49 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: Spiny--

Watched the women's soccer game today, and the Notre Dame game on Friday.

The one thing you didn't report, and the reason for my header: late in the first half, Tierna Davidson gathered the ball under pressure, and tipped it wide toward the left of the box. Just as she tipped it, a Tar Heel,I think #47 Alex Kimball, comes sliding in. The tackle wasn't late, but she came in studs up with her foot 6 inches off the ground, and caught Tierna flush on the shin. Davidson went straight down and was lying on the ground sobbing, and I was afraid the tackle had broken her ankle. She had to be helped off the field and from the game.

The referee gave a yellow, but it was the only one he issued all day, as the game got progressively more chippy. I especially thought Madison Haley was getting hacked pretty regularly without drawing a call, much less a warning or a card.

Before that, Stanford had really been dominating the game pretty thoroughly. UNC had their best run of play as Stanford tried to recover in the opening 15 minutes or so of the second half, but the play was much more even without the best player in college anchoring our backline in her first game back from WNT duty. But a wonderful goal from Sophia Smith (a 21-yarder she launched after cutting from the left top of the box across, and curled in hitting the inside of the bottom of the far post) put Stanford up 1-0.

UNC tied it on a scramble off a free kick from about 40 yards out launched into the box, that pinballed a bit before falling onto the foot of Tar Heel Brianna Pinto, who blasted it home from about 13 yards to the left side through traffic in about the 80th minute. Both teams had half-chances late, but regulation ended in a tie.

Overtime, UNC took an early long shot that Jahansouz gathered in. Then Macario went to work. On the right side of the box, she beat one defender, cut around another, then beat the first defender again, working toward the endline about 10 yards off the post. On the endline, she held off two defenders, then hammered a ball on the ground through the inside defender's legs, finding Haley 3 yards off the front post, and Madison redirected just inside the near post over a sprawling goalie's foot.

The reason for my ire at Anson Dorrance? Goes back a long way, but his teams have always pushed the limits of physicality, and at times gone over them. His great success in the 80s and 90s was in part based on a rather ruthless approach - get big, physical players and train them to an edge in a Darwinian survival set of practices, then turn them loose on teams that were not as big, not as fast, and run them into the ground. In an era where there weren't that many players whose skills could overcome physicality, it worked really well.

My particular start on that story was a game against them in Moraga in 2002. Stanford had one player, Alisan Pabon, who was torching the Tar Heels from her right back position early in the match, and she was the one player who was a clear advantage to Stanford on the field. On 3 different possessions within 5 minutes, Tar Heels players lofted long balls into Pabon's corner, and, as she went to collect them, or shepherd them out of bounds over the touch or end lines, went clattering into her from behind hard, drawing a couple of fouls. But also taking Pabon's legs out from under her; she wasn't the same threatening player for the rest of the match.

Did Dorrance call for that play? Probably not. But did the mindset he instilled in his team lead to it, or to today's sliding through Davidson studs up? It certainly didn't stop it, that's for certain.

Dorrance raised the level of women's soccer in the U.S., and won resources for the game through his team's success that have enabled its development. But I also think that style is where especially the women's national team is stuck. You can be successful as a team early in your development by being faster and more physical than the other side, and it's difficult for a player to develop technically when winning games up and down the age groups are what gets coaches paid. So we get a national side of fast, physical, and occasionally technically well-trained players, which wins us CONCACAF. But as the rest of the world starts to catch up in women's sports, soccer especially, that will not be enough. We're already seeing more technically proficient sides beat the U.S. in age-group competitions, and we've seen it start to take hold at the full national level - France, Japan, and other teams are at least equally technically to the U.S. at this point, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. knocked out in the WWC next year in the semis or earlier.

Sorry if this is a bit one-sided, but watching that tackle (and the announcers' lack of reaction to a studs up high boot against one of the best players in the country) got me a bit... incensed.

VG

Do you feel the same way about Jerry Smith?

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - BobK - 09-10-2018

I've been mad at North Carolina since the great trackster and soccer player Keri Sanchez went from San Jose HS to North Carolina. BTW she's an assistant at Texas now after a long head coachng job at D 2 in SoCal

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2018/09/09/cardinal-wins-battle-of-top-ranked-teams-in-womens-soccer

More on the injured two

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Viking_Guy - 09-10-2018

Mick--

I don't feel the same way about Jerry Smith. I don't enjoy having to play the Broncos every da*n year in the NCAAs, because of the nonsensically justified NCAA travel rules (for those of you who don't remember, the "regionalization" policy was imposed and sold as a "security" measure because of the danger of terrorists taking over airline flights after September 11, and had absolutely nothing to do with saving money on smaller revenue sports (eyeroll).

But that's mostly because of competitive balance reasons - it's the same way I feel about Penn State in WVB and UConn in WBB - they always get an opening foursome of themselves and three tiny colleges in the northeast who barely won their conferences, while in women's soccer, Stanford, Santa Clara, C.al, St. Mary's, almost always end up in the same octant of the bracket, and their seeds often seem to get mysteriously adjusted to make sure they do so. I always do a comparison of the brackets in various sports and their RPIs and other rankings, and it's amazing how often teams in the west are underseeded to their RPIs to match them against regional foes early on.

More generally, and with respect to Jerry, I don't think he's had the kind of influence over USSoccer development on the women's side that Dorrance had in the 1980s, 90s, and early 2000s. I would've preferred that, because I like Jerry's style more than Anson's, although the guy I would've really preferred would've been Clive Charles, whose Portland teams always seemed to be a bit more techically oriented, only to get blown up by Anson's "bigger, faster, more aggressive" sides.

The analogy that comes to mind is Dorrance and Geno Auriemma. Brash, abrasive coaches who run extremely dog-eat-dog styles of practice and team building (hyper-competitive practices and roster choices, my way or the highway coaching styles, not reticent about banishing, benching, or berating their players). Who have also benefited from outside institutional support serendipity (Anson through his early success leading to and then being reinforced by his influence over USSoccer and the national team feeder programs, Geno from the promotional advantages of ESPUconN.) In both cases, I appreciate what they've done for the sport, in terms of building their public presence. But I don't like their styles.

Probably more than you wanted to know. Hoping for good news on Tierna and Michelle (and to be fair, the Xiao injury was more of a mischance than an intentional play - a Tar Heel grabbed at her as she went past, and that threw her off balance and contributed to an awkward splaying of Michelle's legs as she went to the ground.)

VG

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Robbie - 09-10-2018

(09-09-2018, 11:27 PM)oldalum Wrote: ...I've been a non-fan of Dorrance since I saw an interview in which he was whining about how Stanford had an unfair recruiting advantage over UNC because of our Rodin sculpture garden!! ...

At this point one should make a joke about UNC's recruiting advantage because of its 'Silent Sam' statue, but that would be too political, so I won't.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - 2006alum - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 10:28 AM)Robbie Wrote:
(09-09-2018, 11:27 PM)oldalum Wrote: ...I've been a non-fan of Dorrance since I saw an interview in which he was whining about how Stanford had an unfair recruiting advantage over UNC because of our Rodin sculpture garden!! ...

At this point one should make a joke about UNC's recruiting advantage because of its 'Silent Sam' statue, but that would be too political, so I won't.

If anything, their recruiting advantage is their Silent Sham of fake classes and write-it-for-me tutors who hand out As like candy because the "student" part of student-athlete at UNC is basically a euphemism. My loathing for the Tar Heels is nearly as great as for Notre Lame, Puke, and the Toejams. Anyone got any good nicknames for them?

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Spiny_Norman - 09-10-2018

I just noticed that UNC played another game on their west coast trip. Santa Clara (Stanford's opponent this Sunday) defeated UNC 1-0 on Friday evening.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Viking_Guy - 09-10-2018

Spiny--

Yep, UNC schedules a two-game swing on the West Coast every couple of years. In 2016, they played the Bruins and the Toejams.

The game against Santa Clara was almost a carbon copy of the Stanford game - the Tar Heels very nearly equalized late off a scramble in the box following a free kick. In that case, the sideline official pulled the ball out of the back of the net with a very tight/questionable offsides call with about 25 seconds left in the game.

The lead referee in the Stanford game was, well, shall we say liberal in his view of physical contact. But also the AR running the sideline by Stanford's bench seemed very content to let things go. I will say I saw Paul much more in the ear of the fourth official than in other recent matches, even close matches. He was not happy with the foul on Davidson. And not all on UNC, either; DiBiasi dropped Taylor Otto at the close of regulation, in a way that I was wondering if it was retaliatory.

And the officials saw (or at least whistled) nothing.

VG

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Spiny_Norman - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 03:34 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: DiBiasi dropped Taylor Otto at the close of regulation, in a way that I was wondering if it was retaliatory.

And the officials saw (or at least whistled) nothing.

VG

VG - Did I see that DiBiasi drew blood? And yet still no foul.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - Mick - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 03:34 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: The game against Santa Clara was almost a carbon copy of the Stanford ga

#12 SCU Broncos are 6-1 with wins over #2 UNC, C.al, SJSU, Notre Dame, North Texas and a loss to Texas A&M. Scoreless first half, let in a goal at 48 minutes, then scored three more goals in the space of four minutes. Bad game, delayed two hours by lightning. SCU has to play TCU on Thursday before Stanford on Sunday.

Near as I can tell, SCU would have to play a nearly perfect match to beat Stanford. Stanford's season goals for/goals against ration is 19:5. SCU's is 13:8.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - oldalum - 09-11-2018

I wonder if it is worth us scheduling UNC pre-conference, because the injuries to Boissiere (3 years ago) and Davidson (on Sunday) were not worth the benefit we get from playing them, and I would not bet against them injuring someone else in our next game--especially with a random bad ref like the one we had on Sunday. I'd guess there are other top 10 teams that would be happy to play us home-and-home, and we are able to easily travel long distance before fall quarter begins.

I am taking a small comfort in remembering UNC's loss to Princeton at home in the NCAA tournament last year.

RE: Meanwhile in other sports - fullmetal - 09-12-2018

Stanford WVB swept Texas tonight: 25-12, 25-22, 32-30. Texas gets a rematch this Friday when Stanford visits Austin. (Let me know if you're coming to that game!)