A bad microcosm - Printable Version
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A bad microcosm - OutsiderFan - 06-14-2020
When I went out kayaking Friday and to the Farmer’s Market Saturday morning, I felt good about the precautions being taken to limit virus spread. Then, Saturday night we got takeout from a restaurant in the city center and were both shocked by what we saw. There must have been two dozen tables outside, with most of them having 4 people at them. This didn’t count others walking down the sidewalk. Really tough to eat and drink while wearing a mask, but I didn’t think the tables were distanced any further apart than any other time of my life. This was just one restaurant of a couple dozen within a few blocks, and other scenes were as discouraging.
After seeing new case numbers drop for weeks in Hartford County, and no triple digit daily case increase since June 2, there were 136 reported yesterday (Sat. 6/13). Outdoor dining opened I believe on June 8. This was the first open weekend, and we are already seeing increases. Maybe when indoor dining opens on Wed. there will be more room to distance between outside and inside, but given no mask wearing, it seems restaurants are gonna be the greatest spread vector we have beyond offices (should people return to them), and other congregate workplaces.
There will be more people under 65 getting Covid and though there may not be as many deaths as a result, the hospitals are still going to get overwhelmed because too many people are not being cautious enough. I don’t know if there will be more shutdowns ordered, but Covid-19 illnesses are still going to be very problematic for economy. We have officially had 1/80 people in Hartford County infected to date, so still lots of dry brush to fuel spread of this virus fire.
Honestly don’t see how college campuses are going to have students back unless they are prepared for mass sickness and students are willing to get sick. This speaks to my greatest concern; the cavalier attitude about the virus when CFR starts dropping. We just don’t know enough about the long-term cost of Covid-19 to population health to be treating it like a flu that goes away and doesn’t do damage beyond initial impacts. This is especially risky for athletes who rely on being able to perform at a high level to earn money.
I’m not advocating for never going out of your house. I was out on Friday and Saturday. But it seems the continuum between stay locked inside and party like it’s 1999, has far too many at the 1999 end and not enough in the middle. This seems like a recipe for even worse outbreak than we have had to date, in most of the country.
RE: A bad microcosm - 2006alum - 06-14-2020
Yeah, it really does seem like both the populace, as well as the authorities in charge of them, have basically given up. This was NYC on Friday night:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/evgrieve/status/1271601468051767296?s=20[/tweet]
I was on a zoom call last night with grad school friends, some of whom have stayed in NYC and they said when they went out to get ice cream on Friday night it looked like people were at a rave for how many were packed into, and spilling out of, bars. And no one wearing a mask. And this was NYC, for pete's sake, where you would THINK folks would have experienced the trauma of COVID-19 firsthand.
The zoom call also had friends who live in Seattle - they think CHAZ is also a joke, but there's zero leadership in terms of resolving the situation, and their growing list of demands are essentially unanswerable by a single mayor. So there's that, too.
We all concluded that at the moment the U.S. is a de facto failed state where everyone essentially needs to look out for themselves. It's crazy how quickly things have unraveled.
RE: A bad microcosm - BobK - 06-14-2020
I am the babysitter for my grandkids but their parents went to Auburn Ca for Dunner. Plexiglass separations all with masks and their first dinner out in 3 plus months.
Sadly Placer county is increasing rapidly on new cases. Nothing like counties to the west in total but doubling in the past three weeks.
RE: A bad microcosm - Mick - 06-14-2020
None of this surprises me much. People are both social and creatures of habit. Neither enforced solitude, radical behavioral change, nor enforced economic destruction has much appeal for the average person, whatever the risks.
RE: A bad microcosm - OutsiderFan - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 08:28 AM)Mick Wrote: None of this surprises me much. People are both social and creatures of habit. Neither enforced solitude, radical behavioral change, nor enforced economic destruction has much appeal for the average person, whatever the risks.
Yes, this describes a failure of leadership. How many times did you want to run gassers in practice? How many times did you want to run the same play 50 times? Without anyone taking the reins to instill leadership over a group, you end up with the situation you describe, Mick.
But don't try to insinuate we are ungovernable as a people. We are only ungovernable when we aren't governed.
RE: A bad microcosm - baymeadows3408 - 06-14-2020
My wife and I live in a Maine county that has had a low number of cases. Yesterday we visited a town about 40 minutes from home. I went into a pub to buy two four-packs of beer. We saw the pub was empty except for one other couple, and we decided to sit down and have a drink, the first time we had sit in a dining establishment since March. It felt adequately safe to us, given the lack of people inside and the tiny number of local cases. Well, about 20 minutes later another couple walks in. The man made a snide comment about masks as he entered. We overheard the couple talking about how they had just come up from Florida. The man coughed twice. We were probably 20 feet away from the couple. Yeah, the other couple probably didn't have the virus, and even if they did we were probably far enough away and our time probably did not overlap enough for us to get a large viral load, but we're still a little worried. Quarantine rules are a joke because there is no way of enforcing them and a large percentage of the population still thinks this disease is a hoax. We want to support local businesses, but we regret our decision to have a drink inside. We'll be going back to takeout exclusively.
RE: A bad microcosm - OutsiderFan - 06-14-2020
Speaking of restaurants, bars, and other congregate environments...
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article
Tweet summary:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1272080898306048000[/tweet]
lex24 - lex24 - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(06-14-2020, 08:28 AM)Mick Wrote: None of this surprises me much. People are both social and creatures of habit. Neither enforced solitude, radical behavioral change, nor enforced economic destruction has much appeal for the average person, whatever the risks.
Yes, this describes a failure of leadership. How many times did you want to run gassers in practice? How many times did you want to run the same play 50 times? Without anyone taking the reins to instill leadership over a group, you end up with the situation you describe, Mick.
But don't try to insinuate we are ungovernable as a people. We are only ungovernable when we aren't governed.
Ungovernable? Of course not. But skepticism of government is a major part of who we are.
There has also been a slew of incorrect information. Masks are a great example. Early of the Health leaders were saying not necessary. Now that’s changed. Mortality rate. Heard very high numbers early on. About 4.3 percent. Now looking like 0.2 to 0.4. Still higher than flu. But (fortunately) much less deadly. Transmission rate. Early on said 4 to 1. Now believed closer to 1 to 1. Transmission from objects - wipe down everything they said. Now, risk from surfaces very low.
The vast majority of people have followed the orders from their state and local officials. And it is only state and local that can issue such orders. So we were “governed”. And for the most part people complied.
Further, you apparently are in Connecticut. I suspect the governance there was different than in Calif. Perhaps I’m wrong on that. But I doubt it. Here, we have the state orders and each county, through their health directors, also issuing orders. I have not been a fan of unelected officials having the unfettered authority to issue orders that drastically impact all of our lives. Obviously they should be heavily involved in the process. But in the end, if you are going to differentiate by county (which is logical in a state the size of Ca) the orders should be coming from the Board of Supervisors. They are the County elected officials.
Finally, it’s pretty easy to scoff at the economic impact - when it doesn’t negatively impact you. A little tougher when you live paycheck to paycheck, struggle financially to begin with, you lose your job and your industry is facing major changes that will impact you moving forward.
(06-14-2020, 08:57 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote: My wife and I live in a Maine county that has had a low number of cases. Yesterday we visited a town about 40 minutes from home. I went into a pub to buy two four-packs of beer. We saw the pub was empty except for one other couple, and we decided to sit down and have a drink, the first time we had sit in a dining establishment since March. It felt adequately safe to us, given the lack of people inside and the tiny number of local cases. Well, about 20 minutes later another couple walks in. The man made a snide comment about masks as he entered. We overheard the couple talking about how they had just come up from Florida. The man coughed twice. We were probably 20 feet away from the couple. Yeah, the other couple probably didn't have the virus, and even if they did we were probably far enough away and our time probably did not overlap enough for us to get a large viral load, but we're still a little worried. Quarantine rules are a joke because there is no way of enforcing them and a large percentage of the population still thinks this disease is a hoax. We want to support local businesses, but we regret our decision to have a drink inside. We'll be going back to takeout exclusively.
Who thinks it’s a hoax? I’d love to see backup for that statement. There are those who believe it’s been overblown. But hoax?
(06-14-2020, 06:04 AM)2006alum Wrote: Yeah, it really does seem like both the populace, as well as the authorities in charge of them, have basically given up. This was NYC on Friday night:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/evgrieve/status/1271601468051767296?s=20[/tweet]
I was on a zoom call last night with grad school friends, some of whom have stayed in NYC and they said when they went out to get ice cream on Friday night it looked like people were at a rave for how many were packed into, and spilling out of, bars. And no one wearing a mask. And this was NYC, for pete's sake, where you would THINK folks would have experienced the trauma of COVID-19 firsthand.
The zoom call also had friends who live in Seattle - they think CHAZ is also a joke, but there's zero leadership in terms of resolving the situation, and their growing list of demands are essentially unanswerable by a single mayor. So there's that, too.
We all concluded that at the moment the U.S. is a de facto failed state where everyone essentially needs to look out for themselves. It's crazy how quickly things have unraveled.
“De facto failed state”. Please. We are dealing with some tough situations. We will move past it. One of the major problems is we dwell constantly in the negative. Fueled by politicians, media and social media intent on dividing us. We’ve survived worse. Courage.
RE: A bad microcosm - OutsiderFan - 06-14-2020
I think "Failed State" is being used as an axiom by 2006. Whether true or not, depends on how you interpret the term, especially in a context of time.
I'm actually more optimistic about the future of the USA now more than I have been in a while. You must tear things down to rebuild, and we have certainly done a lot of tearing down over the last four years, and continue to do so. My favorite historian is Jon Meacham because he puts things in perspective so well. The history of America is to always improve. We will take steps back, but we always get better over the long haul. So while people may have freaked out about riots a couple weeks ago, thinking the country was coming apart, I looked at it in a wider context of history. As MLK said, the moral arc of history bends toward justice. And it does.
We will get past the ridiculous polarization dividing the country and train our collective fire where it belongs - on the most wealthy .01% of the population - in short order. History says it's just a matter of time.
RE: lex24 - baymeadows3408 - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 09:46 AM)lex24 Wrote: Who thinks it’s a hoax? I’d love to see backup for that statement. There are those who believe it’s been overblown.
Eric Trump suggested that it's a Democratic conspiracy to hinder his father's reelection chances.
Bexar County Republican Party Chair Cynthia Brehm: “All of this has been promulgated by the Democrats to undo all the good that President Trump has done for our country, and they are worried. So take off your masks, exercise your constitutional rights, stand up, speak up and vote Republican."
1 In 5 Adults In England Think The Coronavirus Is A Hoax
[/url]
[url=https://nationalpost.com/news/now-coronavirus-deniers-are-claiming-that-the-covid-19-pandemic-is-an-elaborate-hoax]Coronavirus deniers' say they can prove the pandemic is an elaborate hoax
You may not agree with the provocative use of the word "hoax." That's fine. I will say that there is substantial evidence that there are many people who are not taking this disease seriously and are not doing simple things like wearing masks when in public indoor spaces.
RE: A bad microcosm - BobK - 06-14-2020
Lex here is my elected county supervisor
https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0PKrFHid?pd=01ywZofc&s=i0
A complete moron
lex24 - lex24 - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 11:42 AM)BobK Wrote: Lex here is my elected county supervisor
https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0PKrFHid?pd=01ywZofc&s=i0
A complete moron
But at least you will have an opportunity to vote him out.
RE: lex24 - 2006alum - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 09:46 AM)lex24 Wrote: “De facto failed state”. Please. We are dealing with some tough situations. We will move past it. One of the major problems is we dwell constantly in the negative. Fueled by politicians, media and social media intent on dividing us. We’ve survived worse. Courage.
Let me clarify what I mean. When I think of a failed state, I think of a government that is unable to guarantee basic health and safety for its citizens, forcing all of us to seek out costly workarounds and non-optimal substitutes. Wikipedia says that "[t]ypically, the term means that the state has been rendered ineffective and is not able to enforce its laws uniformly or provide basic goods and services to its citizens." And indeed, that is precisely what I and my close friends and family have been experiencing over the past few months.
Here are a few examples I had in mind when I said this:
Our inability to control COVID-19 means that the start date for my new job -- one I was hired for over a year ago -- has been moved up and back three times in the past month because the organization has been adapting to do onboarding and training remotely. And at least I am fortunate enough (so far) to have a job - literally tens of millions have no immediate path to employment.
That wouldn't be too big of a deal but for the fact that, as a result of our government's inability to control the virus, I have had to buy a (used) car and plan to drive across the country, as I don't want to fly, and I don't want to have to rely on public transportation to get to my new job. So I've had to reschedule my hotels twice now as my estimated departure date shifts back and forth. These are all expenses I would not have to undergo if I felt it safe to get on a plane and access domestic travel.
It also wouldn't be too big of a deal if I didn't have to liaise with building management of my old employer to find a limited, 4-hour window to get into the building where my old office is located. It's been completely shut for over three months now, and no one has been allowed in, so I have been unable to freely and legally access my own possessions.
I will also be working from (my new) home for the foreseeable future, as my organization has mission critical employees who are older and high risk. This means I needed to get a nicer new housing situation than I would ordinarily seek out for a time-limited gig, as I anticipate I'll be spending 23 hours a day there between work and living. I opted to trade up to a larger apartment with a den/home office. So that's another unanticipated expense. Again, I do not feel comfortable trusting public transportation.
Meanwhile, my spouse, who will not be able to easily fly across the country to visit me for the foreseeable future, is worried about the threat of rolling blackouts because PG&E is so inept that their only solution to increased wildfire & downed powerline risks is to shut off transformers entirely. We are investigating buying a generator because we can't rely on the state to provide us with power.
Meanwhile, relatives who live in a more rural part of California are in a community with an aquifer that is nearly tapped. When it goes, which they are predicting will be in the next year or two, they will have to have all water transported to them from outside the community. So water, too, is something the state is not able to provide to its citizens. (To say nothing of Flint, etc.).
Last week, my pharmacy was completely shuttered for three days because of risks from protests/rioting/looting. As was my local target. So the state could ensure security for businesses to a sufficient degree that they feel comfortable staying open. As a result, I was unable to access prescription medicines for several days, and I couldn't have them refilled elsewhere because they had already been filled but were stuck in the barricaded pharmacy.
My friends in Seattle live 6 blocks from CHAZ. Their local grocery store, Trader Joes, cannot get deliveries because the trucks need to run through the CHAZ route and have been blocked. It will run out of food imminently if something doesn't change.
Another family friend who lives in Seattle lives on one side of the West Seattle Bridge. She is an ICU nurse who works at a hospital on the other side of the bridge. The bridge shut down in March due to serious concerns that it could collapse. What used to be a 45-minute commute is now 1.5 hours, as she has to drive far south and then back north due to the closure. Given her already long work hours, this is a big burden for her, so she considered buying an electric bike. But then she realized the bike bridge runs beneath the West Seattle Bridge, so instead of collapsing with her, it would collapse on and around her. (Strangely, the bike bridge has remained open. So the state has also failed to provide safe and adequate infrastructure.
One of my best friends from undergrad has had to postpone his wedding twice: first, from this spring to this summer, and now, from this summer to sometime next year TBD. Both sides have international relatives and with travel restrictions and COVID-19, they cannot reliably promise their families that they can safely attend (to say nothing of possible international travel restrictions).
So, to recap: My family and close friends have had to doubt their safety on public transportation, basic road infrastructure, domestic travel, and international travel because the state has been unable to manage this pandemic and maintain safe public infrastructure. We/they have been concerned about maintaining access to safe groundwater and power, because the state has been unable to safely provision basic public utilities. And we have had food and prescription drug supply chains significantly disrupted because the state cannot provide sufficient security and public access for those businesses to remain open.
I will be the first to admit that any one of these things alone is really not a big deal. And we've been rolling through most of them with relatively minimal complaints. But these are all symptoms of a failed state.
Finally, I'm hardly the only person to have said this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1252283857136750594?s=20[/tweet]
RE: A bad microcosm - Mick - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 08:36 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(06-14-2020, 08:28 AM)Mick Wrote: None of this surprises me much. People are both social and creatures of habit. Neither enforced solitude, radical behavioral change, nor enforced economic destruction has much appeal for the average person, whatever the risks.
Yes, this describes a failure of leadership. How many times did you want to run gassers in practice? How many times did you want to run the same play 50 times? Without anyone taking the reins to instill leadership over a group, you end up with the situation you describe, Mick.
But don't try to insinuate we are ungovernable as a people. We are only ungovernable when we aren't governed.
I think we're a lot less governable than you think we are. And I don't think we toe the line in the way that certain other countries do. We were founded in governmental skepticism. We lionize the individual. Across the world, "cowboy" is a slur, a term of opprobrium. In the good ol' U. S. of A., it's a term to be admired. America venerates the individual effort, often over the dictates of an uncaring and unknowing state. It's why President Knucklehead gets so much mileage out of "deep state." It's why Governor Handsome says "If we don't start reducing the barriers to societal and economic return, the people will do so unilaterally."
We're governable, to a point. Ask the Fascist Anti-Fascist Antifa how governable we are. Or the owners of 300 million guns, take your pick. Or the looters or the protestors or the founders/citizens of C.H.A.D. who are apparently unopposed and untroubled by authority. In other countries, all of those people and groups would be staring down the barrel of a gun. Not this one, where resistance to police and authority are sacrosanct.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 11:05 AM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:(06-14-2020, 09:46 AM)lex24 Wrote: Who thinks it’s a hoax? I’d love to see backup for that statement. There are those who believe it’s been overblown.
Eric Trump suggested that it's a Democratic conspiracy to hinder his father's reelection chances.
Bexar County Republican Party Chair Cynthia Brehm: “All of this has been promulgated by the Democrats to undo all the good that President Trump has done for our country, and they are worried. So take off your masks, exercise your constitutional rights, stand up, speak up and vote Republican."
1 In 5 Adults In England Think The Coronavirus Is A Hoax
[/url]
[url=https://nationalpost.com/news/now-coronavirus-deniers-are-claiming-that-the-covid-19-pandemic-is-an-elaborate-hoax]Coronavirus deniers' say they can prove the pandemic is an elaborate hoax
You may not agree with the provocative use of the word "hoax." That's fine. I will say that there is substantial evidence that there are many people who are not taking this disease seriously and are not doing simple things like wearing masks when in public indoor spaces.
Sure. There are many people doing all sorts of things. That’s what happens when you are a country of 350,000,000 that live in a society that champions individual thought and choice. We can focus on those that don’t comply Or we can focus on the vast majority that are following directives.
Part of the mask problem is the narrative. changed. First, we heard they don’t make much difference. Then it moved to they may make some difference. Now they have become a key element. (But even now it’s somewhat confusing- as some Ca counties have changed the outdoor specifications, first saying if exercising not needed. Now if exercising and within 30 feet, you are to wear it.
So I do get, to a point, why some are confused if not skeptical. Personally, I’ll wear a mask as long as it’s suggested and whenever it’s suggested. It’s a pretty easy thing to do.
(06-14-2020, 11:49 AM)2006alum Wrote:(06-14-2020, 09:46 AM)lex24 Wrote: “De facto failed state”. Please. We are dealing with some tough situations. We will move past it. One of the major problems is we dwell constantly in the negative. Fueled by politicians, media and social media intent on dividing us. We’ve survived worse. Courage.
Let me clarify what I mean. When I think of a failed state, I think of a government that is unable to guarantee basic health and safety for its citizens, forcing all of us to seek out costly workarounds and non-optimal substitutes. Wikipedia says that "[t]ypically, the term means that the state has been rendered ineffective and is not able to enforce its laws uniformly or provide basic goods and services to its citizens." And indeed, that is precisely what I and my close friends and family have been experiencing over the past few months.
Here are a few examples I had in mind when I said this:
Our inability to control COVID-19 means that the start date for my new job -- one I was hired for over a year ago -- has been moved up and back three times in the past month because the organization has been adapting to do onboarding and training remotely. And at least I am fortunate enough (so far) to have a job - literally tens of millions have no immediate path to employment.
That wouldn't be too big of a deal but for the fact that, as a result of our government's inability to control the virus, I have had to buy a (used) car and plan to drive across the country, as I don't want to fly, and I don't want to have to rely on public transportation to get to my new job. So I've had to reschedule my hotels twice now as my estimated departure date shifts back and forth. These are all expenses I would not have to undergo if I felt it safe to get on a plane and access domestic travel.
It also wouldn't be too big of a deal if I didn't have to liaise with building management of my old employer to find a limited, 4-hour window to get into the building where my old office is located. It's been completely shut for over three months now, and no one has been allowed in, so I have been unable to freely and legally access my own possessions.
I will also be working from (my new) home for the foreseeable future, as my organization has mission critical employees who are older and high risk. This means I needed to get a nicer new housing situation than I would ordinarily seek out for a time-limited gig, as I anticipate I'll be spending 23 hours a day there between work and living. I opted to trade up to a larger apartment with a den/home office. So that's another unanticipated expense. Again, I do not feel comfortable trusting public transportation.
Meanwhile, my spouse, who will not be able to easily fly across the country to visit me for the foreseeable future, is worried about the threat of rolling blackouts because PG&E is so inept that their only solution to increased wildfire & downed powerline risks is to shut off transformers entirely. We are investigating buying a generator because we can't rely on the state to provide us with power.
Meanwhile, relatives who live in a more rural part of California are in a community with an aquifer that is nearly tapped. When it goes, which they are predicting will be in the next year or two, they will have to have all water transported to them from outside the community. So water, too, is something the state is not able to provide to its citizens. (To say nothing of Flint, etc.).
Last week, my pharmacy was completely shuttered for three days because of risks from protests/rioting/looting. As was my local target. So the state could ensure security for businesses to a sufficient degree that they feel comfortable staying open. As a result, I was unable to access prescription medicines for several days, and I couldn't have them refilled elsewhere because they had already been filled but were stuck in the barricaded pharmacy.
My friends in Seattle live 6 blocks from CHAZ. Their local grocery store, Trader Joes, cannot get deliveries because the trucks need to run through the CHAZ route and have been blocked. It will run out of food imminently if something doesn't change.
Another family friend who lives in Seattle lives on one side of the West Seattle Bridge. She is an ICU nurse who works at a hospital on the other side of the bridge. The bridge shut down in March due to serious concerns that it could collapse. What used to be a 45-minute commute is now 1.5 hours, as she has to drive far south and then back north due to the closure. Given her already long work hours, this is a big burden for her, so she considered buying an electric bike. But then she realized the bike bridge runs beneath the West Seattle Bridge, so instead of collapsing with her, it would collapse on and around her. (Strangely, the bike bridge has remained open. So the state has also failed to provide safe and adequate infrastructure.
One of my best friends from undergrad has had to postpone his wedding twice: first, from this spring to this summer, and now, from this summer to sometime next year TBD. Both sides have international relatives and with travel restrictions and COVID-19, they cannot reliably promise their families that they can safely attend (to say nothing of possible international travel restrictions).
So, to recap: My family and close friends have had to doubt their safety on public transportation, basic road infrastructure, domestic travel, and international travel because the state has been unable to manage this pandemic. We/they have been concerned about maintaining access to safe groundwater and power, because the state has been unable to safely provision basic public utilities. And we have had food and prescription drug supply chains significantly disrupted because the state cannot provide sufficient security and public access for those businesses to remain open.
I will be the first to admit that any one of these things alone is really not a big deal. And we've been rolling through most of them with relatively minimal complaints. But these are all symptoms of a failed state.
Finally, I'm hardly the only person to have said this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1252283857136750594?s=20[/tweet]
I’m sure your not. Nor am I the only to disagree. We spend an inordinate amount of time in this country picking scabs. We routinely ignore the positive focusing almost completely upon the negative.
We got hit with a pandemic. And I really don’t want to get into the political argument of who did what to who at what time. When this is all said and done we will have plenty of time to cast blame and I’m sure they’ll be plenty to go around.
We will climb our way out of this. The one thing I’ve always had a lot of faith in is the American people. I continue to have that faith.
RE: lex24 - 2006alum - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 12:01 PM)lex24 Wrote: We spend an inordinate amount of time in this country picking scabs. We routinely ignore the positive focusing almost completely upon the negative.
I guess we'll have to disagree, but I don't think I'm "picking scabs" worrying about businesses having the security to stay open and have the free movement to receive deliveries, bridges closed because they are risk of collapsing, rolling brownouts, and having access to potable water. None of those issues are direct results of the pandemic. It kinda feels like you didn't even read what I wrote, because you'd prefer fact-free "hope" to recognizing some really dire symptoms of a failing state on the ground. And that's to say nothing of our existential issues with access to voting (did you see the lines in Georgia?) and the community's acceptance of law enforcement, not to mention the fact that both major political parties seem to think the strongest attack on the other guys candidate is that he's senile and mentally infirm. What leadership!
I agree that we'll survive, just as many quasi-failed states have and do. But I'm failing to see where your sense of optimism and hope is coming from. Please point me to some facts because believe me, I'd really like to feel better about how things are likely to be going in the months ahead...
lex24 - lex24 - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 01:26 PM)2006alum Wrote:(06-14-2020, 12:01 PM)lex24 Wrote: We spend an inordinate amount of time in this country picking scabs. We routinely ignore the positive focusing almost completely upon the negative.
I guess we'll have to disagree, but I don't think I'm "picking scabs" worrying about businesses having the security to stay open and have the free movement to receive deliveries, bridges closed because they are risk of collapsing, rolling brownouts, and having access to potable water. None of those issues are direct results of the pandemic. It kinda feels like you didn't even read what I wrote, because you'd prefer fact-free "hope" to recognizing some really dire symptoms of a failing state on the ground. And that's to say nothing of our existential issues with access to voting (did you see the lines in Georgia?) and the community's acceptance of law enforcement, not to mention the fact that both major political parties seem to think the strongest attack on the other guys candidate is that he's senile and mentally infirm. What leadership!
I agree that we'll survive, just as many quasi-failed states have and do. But I'm failing to see where your sense of optimism and hope is coming from. Please point me to some facts because believe me, I'd really like to feel better about how things are likely to be going in the months ahead...
I don’t mean to be dismissive of your thoughts. Obviously we have a lot of issues we need to deal with I’m not suggesting otherwise. And for what it’s worth my picking scabs comment was not directed to you. It was just a general statement. But I really can’t respond without getting into a full-blown political discussion and frankly I like the fact that the board doesn’t do that so I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do.
RE: A bad microcosm - BostonCard - 06-14-2020
I have bemoaned the state of the government's response at many levels to COVID-19, but we are far from a failed state.
The examples you give are notable because they are exceptions to the rule. Given the magnitude of the disruption of COVID-19, I actually find it impressive how well the country has adapted and continued to meet most of its citizens' basic needs.
The food supply suffered minor hiccups as thousands of schools and restaurants closed and millions of people started to make food from home, and the virus descended on meatpacking plants. Yes, there are stories of farmers who have no place to take their milk and are pouring it down the drain, and of shortages of meet, but by and large the food supply has held up remarkably well. Most supermarkets are adequately stocked, and while some stores may be out of select items, we are not talking about what you would see in a failed state where people queue up for hours at the store. Your friends who live close to CHAZ might be inconvenienced because their local Trader Joes can't stock up but there are two Safeways and two Whole Foods within five blocks of that TJs.
The water supply has held up really well. What happened in Flint is, of course, an abomination, but the vast majority of the country can turn on the tap and get clean water on demand. And while we have issues long term, I am also confident that we will solve them.
Your choice not to fly is understandable, but is also your choice. I too have avoided travel since the pandemic started, but if I had to travel cross country (say because of the imminent death of a relative), I could and would.
We have underinvested in infrastructure, sure. But truth be told most dams, bridges, tunnels and freeways are functioning, and we will always have to close parts of our infrastructure off to update, maintain, expand, or build new. There is no way that we can freeze a city in amber and not have construction somewhere at some time that will inconvenience somebody.
Anyway, I get the sentiment that we've all been severely impacted by things. But maybe its because I actually lived in a developing country for much of my early life that I view a lot of what you discussed as "first world problems". Say what you want, but in these times when the system has been severely stressed by the coronavirus, food is still available, the water pipes and sewers are still functioning, the garbage is still being picked up, you can still get to another part of the country if you have to, most of our roads, bridges, tunnels, train tracks, etc., are still working, and society has held up remarkably well. I am most heartened by the fact that the protests against police violence have continued and by and large have been almost uniformly peaceful. There was a period a couple week ends ago when you could have imagined that streets boiling over and an overly militarized response resulting in a full fledged confrontation between protesters and law enforcement. And yet, virus aside, I would feel completely comfortable taking my kids to the local protests. For all the pent up anger and frustration, life has actually continued more or less as we expect.
BC
RE: lex24 - terry - 06-14-2020
(06-14-2020, 04:00 PM)lex24 Wrote: I really can’t respond without getting into a full-blown political discussion and frankly I like the fact that the board doesn’t do that so I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do.
Agreed, better to not go down that road.
Leftcoast - Leftcoast - 06-14-2020
Personally, I was impressed by how well people listened and responded to the call to shutdown in the Bay Area. It was unexpected and breathtaking.