WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - Printable Version
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WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - martyup - 03-14-2021
The women's basketball All-American players were named today by ESPN. There were no Stanford players on either the first or second teams. Okay. We'll see.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - petersalas - 03-14-2021
I do hope for motivation and 6 more wins to end the season.. AA is great, but I think it’s better to have a team with multiple weapons at each position than a team with an AA player.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - BostonCard - 03-14-2021
Just curious, who would you have included as an all-American?
We have no players in the top 50 in points per game, rebounds per game, or assists per game in the country. Cameron Brink is the only player who appears in a major stat (13th in the country in blocks).
We just have a team that is greater than the sum of its individual parts, without any superstars. Of our five starters, three were all-Pac-12, one was Pac-12 co-defensive player of the year, and Brink was on the all-Freshman and honorable mention team despite not starting for half the year.
No all-American players is not a slight.
BC
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - 81alum - 03-14-2021
Williams is the obvious candidate for second team but her unselfishness probably doomed her. Jones was one of the "also considered" but frankly she has been a bit inconsistent. Brink will probably get this several times over the course of her career but she did not get enough minutes her freshman year to dominate the stats. Lexie was a little off compared with last year. And so it goes.
Yes, our weaker teams like the one led by Chiney clearly promoted an All American by relying heavily on just one or two people. A well balanced team makes it harder.
I have a hunch that Brink and Jones will BOTH be all Americans next year.
By the way, has anyone else noticed that Tara frequently points out that Jones is basically a freshman, and then with Brink she points out that Brink "never played like a freshman"?
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - TheFarm07 - 03-14-2021
I agree that I don't think it was a snub that none of our players were named All-Americans. I could see Kiana as a second or third team, though.
Kiana, Haley and Cameron all have All-American talent and they have had All-American kind of games this season, but they haven't strung together enough games deserved of a season's award.
Kiana has been too streaky in her career. If I had a nickel every time someone has wondered on this forum where her shot has gone or if something more serious has affected her accuracy over the last four years, I would be a bit richer. Fortunately, she's on one of her hot streaks right now and I hope that it continues into the NCAA tournament.
Haley needs to be more selfish, IMO. I feel like a lot of her turnovers are her forcing the ball to teammates, most of them when they were not in a necessarily better position than she was. She needs to remember she was the #1 recruit in the country for a reason. She has the strength and shiftiness to drive to the basket, she has touch on those teardrop shots and she has accuracy on her midrange jumpers. She needs to learn how to take over a game, which I think she can do.
Cameron's propensity to foul is what is currently holding her back, even when she doesn't foul out, Tara is not hesitant to pull someone if they pick up an early foul. Plus she did not start a game until halfway through the season and I don't think you can name a player as an All-American if they only started half of their team's games unless they have an extraordinary, record-setting second half and although Cameron has had a very fine end to the regular season, she didn't have enough standout games to warrant an award this season. If Cameron can learn how to defend without fouling as much, the sky is the limit for her, especially if she picks up a few more shooting lessons from Dell Curry and be a more consistent outside shooter.
(03-14-2021, 08:56 PM)81alum Wrote: By the way, has anyone else noticed that Tara frequently points out that Jones is basically a freshman, and then with Brink she points out that Brink "never played like a freshman"?
What do you make of it, 81alum? IMO, Tara is alluding to the silly head-scratching turnovers Haley makes and the fearlessness and aggression Cameron plays with, in her comments. Though Cameron still needs to adjust to the fouling situation, she has played with confidence and assuredness that makes you think this wasn't her first collegiate season.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - bl82 - 03-14-2021
(03-14-2021, 10:41 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote: Haley needs to be more selfish, IMO. I feel like a lot of her turnovers are her forcing the ball to teammates, most of them when they were not in a necessarily better position than she was. She needs to remember she was the #1 recruit in the country for a reason. She has the strength and shiftiness to drive to the basket, she has touch on those teardrop shots and she has accuracy on her midrange jumpers. She needs to learn how to take over a game, which I think she can do.
Good comments about Haley. It seems as if she often tries to make the perfect low probability thread-the-needle pass when being selfish is likely to get much better results.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - martyup - 03-15-2021
When a team is highly ranked and hasn't lost in a long time, you find motivation wherever you can. I agree that becoming an AA probably requires a degree of selfish play. We don't have selfish players. But we do have players that are arguably better than some of those named as AAs. I'm confident that the coaching staff will milk this for all the motivational juice it will give.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - IM in OC - 03-15-2021
(03-15-2021, 07:42 AM)martyup Wrote: When a team is highly ranked and hasn't lost in a long time, you find motivation wherever you can. I agree that becoming an AA probably requires a degree of selfish play. We don't have selfish players. But we do have players that are arguably better than some of those named as AAs. I'm confident that the coaching staff will milk this for all the motivational juice it will give.
I will never have a problem having a team of Karlies.
https://elperimetro.es/2021/03/10/la-energia-que-ayuda-a-las-estrellas-a-brillar/
Every good car needs its gasoline, and players like Karlie Samuelson or Andrea Vilaró are the clear example of helping the stars that accompany them shine with great intensity. They are fundamental pieces in the puzzle of Avenida and their constant energy on the field is noticed.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - magnus - 03-16-2021
Chantel Jennings of The Athletic predicts Baylor to win it all with Stanford going down to Georgia in the Elite Eight.
https://theathletic.com/2454892/2021/03/16/2021-ncaa-tournament-chantel-jennings-picks-her-entire-march-madness-bracket/
She has no #1s making the Final Four. I don't believe that's ever happened in WBB (though i haven't followed the seeds closely in the last decade).
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - WBB fan - 03-16-2021
In case you haven't see it, here's the write-up on Stanford in the Alamo region from "The Next." I question the comment about not turning the ball over very much, no mention of the brobdingnagian value of Anna or how good Stanford's defense is, but otherwise . . . seems to have a good fix on the team.
The NCAA’s top seed: Can anyone top Stanford?
Need a primer on the Cardinal? They’re good at… well, everything. They won their three Pac-12 Tournament games by an average of 31 points, which included a 34-point win over Oregon State (an 8-seed in the Hemisfair region) and a 20-point win over UCLA (a 3-seed in the Hemisfair) in the title game. Stanford was considered a great team a month ago — the team is playing historically dominant basketball right now.
Stanford shoots the three-ball at one of the best clips in the country. They pound you on the boards and can score inside better than almost any other team, and certainly better than the teams that utilize guards at the rate they do. Their ball movement is a beauty. They don’t turn the rock over. They’ve been on the road for most of its season — it might be a boon to the roster to finally have a chance to settle down in San Antonio. If you think anyone is favored against Stanford, you’re wrong. They’re the top squad for a reason.
Guards Kiana Williams, Haley Jones and Lexi Hull make up a backcourt trio that could lead their team to the Elite 8 just on the weight of their individual strengths. Luckily for Stanford and head coach Tara VanDerveer, they don’t have to — the Cardinal loves to run out lineups that are chock-full of these versatile guards. There isn’t a deeper rotation in the country. Where else is Fran Belibi only playing 15 minutes per game?
Enough about the backcourt, though. In the frontcourt you’ll find freshman sensation and X-factor Cameron Brink. Monday night, Sue Bird said Brink could help bring Stanford to the title game. That’s true — if the freshman can stay on the floor. Brink can get anything she wants in the paint, but she also commits 2.7 fouls per game despite playing just 18.1 minutes per contest. Referees swallow the whistle a little more in March, but Brink will still need to vet up quickly.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - BostonCard - 03-16-2021
It's really hard to get worked up about being disrespected when you've been named the overall number one team in the country. I think it is deserved, but I don't think I'd have gotten too worked up about any of the top regional seeds.
Now it's up to the team to execute as we know we are capable of.
BC
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - petersalas - 03-16-2021
It’s like the stars are all aligned for this to be the year... they just have to have 6 more wins to cap of an amazing season! I even had all my time off requests approved, which normally doesn’t happen so quickly or easily, to be home in time for tournament games.. and I hope Stanford is on the winning end of 6 of those games... I’ve been a fan since the 1997, and feel we’ve been on the wrong side of history for far too long! Tara is the leader in wins and what a great year to finally get over the championship drought.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - BostonCard - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 04:27 PM)petersalas Wrote: It’s like the stars are all aligned for this to be the year... they just have to have 6 more wins to cap of an amazing season! I even had all my time off requests approved, which normally doesn’t happen so quickly or easily, to be home in time for tournament games.. and I hope Stanford is on the winning end of 6 of those games... I’ve been a fan since the 1997, and feel we’ve been on the wrong side of history for far too long! Tara is the leader in wins and what a great year to finally get over the championship drought.
1997 was a great year, but that loss to Old Dominion still stings 24 years later.
BC
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - petersalas - 03-16-2021
Oh it sure does.. I can remember it so clearly... I became a fan while channel surfing and catching the game Kate Starbird broke the scoring record... and that was before I even knew the meaning of what an NCAA tournament really was.. hope this is the year all those bad memories are somewhat erased!
(03-16-2021, 04:49 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-16-2021, 04:27 PM)petersalas Wrote: It’s like the stars are all aligned for this to be the year... they just have to have 6 more wins to cap of an amazing season! I even had all my time off requests approved, which normally doesn’t happen so quickly or easily, to be home in time for tournament games.. and I hope Stanford is on the winning end of 6 of those games... I’ve been a fan since the 1997, and feel we’ve been on the wrong side of history for far too long! Tara is the leader in wins and what a great year to finally get over the championship drought.
1997 was a great year, but that loss to Old Dominion still stings 24 years later.
BC
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - M T - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 03:41 PM)WBB fan Wrote: I question the comment about not turning the ball over very much....
Stanford is #30 in their own turnovers per game.
(Other teams recently mentioned:
NC State #27
So. Carolina #72
UConn #90
Baylor #205
Georgia #240)
#19 in Assist/Turnover
I know it seemed like a lot. Also consider how much time we had the starters out.
Stanford's 4 players averaging 20+ minutes/game averaged 27 minutes/game.
UConn had 7 players averaging 20+ m/g. The top 5 averaged 29.9 min/game.
So. Carolina had 5 players averaging 20+ m/g. They averaged 28.9 m/g.
NC State had 6 players averaging 20+ m/g. The top 5 averaged 30.2 m/g.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - CompSci87 - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 02:18 PM)magnus Wrote: Chantel Jennings of The Athletic predicts Baylor to win it all with Stanford going down to Georgia in the Elite Eight.
https://theathletic.com/2454892/2021/03/16/2021-ncaa-tournament-chantel-jennings-picks-her-entire-march-madness-bracket/
She has no #1s making the Final Four. I don't believe that's ever happened in WBB (though i haven't followed the seeds closely in the last decade).
She's been a bit down on Stanford all year. Always lower in her power rankings than in the AP poll or NET.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - CompSci87 - 03-16-2021
(03-16-2021, 03:41 PM)WBB fan Wrote: In case you haven't see it, here's the write-up on Stanford in the Alamo region from "The Next."
It's preferable to link instead of copy/pasting a big chunk from another site.
https://thenext.substack.com/p/ncaa-tournament-preview-stanford
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - mbdude - 03-17-2021
Five teams that could win the NCAA women's basketball tournament, and 10 players who could ignite a title run (espn.com)
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - warren65 - 03-17-2021
Going back to the theme of the no-Stanford-All-Americans, there are a number of factors at play.
As some have noted, an unselfish and sharing team is less likely to have one or two players stand out. Beyond that, it is a question of the team's depth and balance. Stanford has both. When players like Belibi, Lacie Hull, Jump, and Prechtel are coming off the bench, there's not much drop off in performance, so the starters tend to get less time. A great example was the USC tournament game, when those four bench players got lots of minutes, scoring 47 points and grabbing 22 rebounds.
And dominance. Stanford's 25 point average margin was the second highest ever for Stanford. When a team dominates, the starters are likely to be out of the game for a substantial part, or all, of the fourth quarter. Kiana Williams averaged 31.7 minutes per game. No other Stanford player reached the 28 minutes per game average. I'm betting that most of the all-american disignees were high up into the 30 minute range.
Recall Lexie and Lacie Hull's dominant high school team. If I remember correctly, neither of them were named high school all-americans, yet their team was dominant, losing just one game in the last two seasons and winning that illustrious post season tournament in NYC. Along the way, they defeated teams that did have high school all-americans. In most of their games, the Hulls did not see much time in the fourth quarter, so their numbers were less impressive. Here's hoping that this year's Stanford team can do what the Hulls' high school team did.
Should the All-American selection process be altered to allow a player like Kiana Williams a better chance to be selected? One way this might be done is to pay more attention to points, boards, and assists on a per minute basis, and less on the per game average. That might provide a better measurement of quality.
(03-14-2021, 10:41 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote: I agree that I don't think it was a snub that none of our players were named All-Americans. I could see Kiana as a second or third team, though.
Kiana, Haley and Cameron all have All-American talent and they have had All-American kind of games this season, but they haven't strung together enough games deserved of a season's award.
Kiana has been too streaky in her career. If I had a nickel every time someone has wondered on this forum where her shot has gone or if something more serious has affected her accuracy over the last four years, I would be a bit richer. Fortunately, she's on one of her hot streaks right now and I hope that it continues into the NCAA tournament.
Haley needs to be more selfish, IMO. I feel like a lot of her turnovers are her forcing the ball to teammates, most of them when they were not in a necessarily better position than she was. She needs to remember she was the #1 recruit in the country for a reason. She has the strength and shiftiness to drive to the basket, she has touch on those teardrop shots and she has accuracy on her midrange jumpers. She needs to learn how to take over a game, which I think she can do.
Cameron's propensity to foul is what is currently holding her back, even when she doesn't foul out, Tara is not hesitant to pull someone if they pick up an early foul. Plus she did not start a game until halfway through the season and I don't think you can name a player as an All-American if they only started half of their team's games unless they have an extraordinary, record-setting second half and although Cameron has had a very fine end to the regular season, she didn't have enough standout games to warrant an award this season. If Cameron can learn how to defend without fouling as much, the sky is the limit for her, especially if she picks up a few more shooting lessons from Dell Curry and be a more consistent outside shooter.
(03-14-2021, 08:56 PM)81alum Wrote: By the way, has anyone else noticed that Tara frequently points out that Jones is basically a freshman, and then with Brink she points out that Brink "never played like a freshman"?
What do you make of it, 81alum? IMO, Tara is alluding to the silly head-scratching turnovers Haley makes and the fearlessness and aggression Cameron plays with, in her comments. Though Cameron still needs to adjust to the fouling situation, she has played with confidence and assuredness that makes you think this wasn't her first collegiate season.
RE: WBB: DISRESPECT = MOTIVATION - WBB fan - 03-17-2021
(03-17-2021, 07:40 AM)mbdude Wrote: Five teams that could win the NCAA women's basketball tournament, and 10 players who could ignite a title run (espn.com)
On the subject of motivation -- note that in this article, 2 of the 10 players specifically mentioned "who could ignite a title run" are Cameron and Lexie. And Kiana gets a big nod in the part of the article that specifically about Stanford.