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OL - old spanish trail - 09-07-2021

I recall reading a few weeks ago that the new OL coach was bringing in new techniques. Does anyone know what they were or if it happened? I thought last year's OL was really quite good, especially in the running game. This year Hinton replaces Sarell and Nugent takes over at center. Based on last year's play, Hinton should be an upgrade and Nugent probably not as he doesn't have  much experience at a position where experience matters. Maybe a wash? How do this year's techniques differ from last? Thanks.

RE: OL - OutsiderFan - 09-08-2021

Is Hinton still a Frosh by eligibility? I know he played in 2020, but did he play more than the 4 games before a year of eligibility is used up, or did anyone who played last year not have that year counted against their eligibility?

RE: OL - 82lsju - 09-08-2021

(09-08-2021, 06:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Is Hinton still a Frosh by eligibility? I know he played in 2020, but did he play more than the 4 games before a year of eligibility is used up, or did anyone who played last year not have that year counted against their eligibility?

Quote:As a Freshman (2020)
  • Most Outstanding Freshman Award

  • Played in four games on special teams and in extra offensive linemen packages primarily

https://gostanford.com/sports/football/roster/myles-hinton/17921

RE: OL - OutsiderFan - 09-08-2021

(09-08-2021, 07:46 AM)82lsju Wrote:  
(09-08-2021, 06:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Is Hinton still a Frosh by eligibility? I know he played in 2020, but did he play more than the 4 games before a year of eligibility is used up, or did anyone who played last year not have that year counted against their eligibility?

Quote:As a Freshman (2020)
  • Most Outstanding Freshman Award

  • Played in four games on special teams and in extra offensive linemen packages primarily

https://gostanford.com/sports/football/roster/myles-hinton/17921

IOW, Myles Hinton is a RS Frosh in terms of eligibility. And this would be his second year out of High School, so he would be eligible for the NFL draft after his RS Soph season.

RE: OL - BostonCard - 09-08-2021

(09-08-2021, 06:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Is Hinton still a Frosh by eligibility? I know he played in 2020, but did he play more than the 4 games before a year of eligibility is used up, or did anyone who played last year not have that year counted against their eligibility?

Correct, nobody used up a year of eligibility last year.

BC

RE: OL - Langdude - 09-08-2021

(09-08-2021, 06:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Is Hinton still a Frosh by eligibility? I know he played in 2020, but did he play more than the 4 games before a year of eligibility is used up, or did anyone who played last year not have that year counted against their eligibility?

All the listings on the chart under 2021 Stanford Football Personnel are accurate in terms of eligibility, I’m almost certain. As BC noted, last year didn’t count for anyone as a year of eligibility. Thus multiple sixth year players (which will possibly continue until the 2020 COVID season players have graduated).

-m.

RE: OL - Phogge - 09-08-2021

Hinton committed a holding foul. Rouse was flagged for holding and twice for false starts. All in all not a glorious day for the OT’s.

RE: OL - teejers1 - 09-08-2021

(09-07-2021, 11:53 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  I recall reading a few weeks ago that the new OL coach was bringing in new techniques. Does anyone know what they were or if it happened? I thought last year's OL was really quite good, especially in the running game. This year Hinton replaces Sarell and Nugent takes over at center. Based on last year's play, Hinton should be an upgrade and Nugent probably not as he doesn't have  much experience at a position where experience matters. Maybe a wash? How do this year's techniques differ from last? Thanks.

Not sure why you'd expect Hinton to be an upgrade over Sarell, particularly this season.
And Nugent (or anyone) would be a downgrade from Dalman (who was a complete stud).

I actually think the OL will be pretty good . . . eventually.  The time it takes to get there is the question and potential problem.

RE: OL - needle - 09-08-2021

I will cop to having outsize expectations for Hinton. He did really well last year in limited time.

RE: OL - fullmetal - 09-08-2021

Watching the game in person made it hard to see the whole picture, but I do remember Hinton giving up a sack on an inside spin move when he backed up too quickly, too far.  I saw the OL as a question mark coming into the season, and I guess I was right not to have high expectations.

RE: OL - old spanish trail - 09-08-2021

(09-08-2021, 10:07 AM)needle Wrote:  I will cop to having outsize expectations for Hinton. He did really well last year in limited time.

Ditto, Needle. Hinton was trucking linemen and linebackers both last year in short yardage formations, especially on the goal line.  I saw Hinton's hold and  it was obvious. Looked like he expected a different move and hopefully won't happen often.

 I also had outsize expectations for Sarrell. He proved to be strong but lead footed and an early leg injury didn't help. He was cut early by ?? this year. If he could train to become more nifty, he could make it. 

And, back to my first question, does anyone know anything about different techniques for the OL this year?

RE: OL - vataha - 09-08-2021

Ole' technique?

RE: OL - fullmetal - 09-09-2021

A cursory internet search revealed nothing insightful about the Buffalo Bills' OL philosophy, but I did find this excellent analysis from Ben Muth that was worth reading: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2020/word-muth-buffalo-stampede

Generally speaking though, where the OL started to fall apart over the last five years hasn't been a schematic fault so much as lack of health and strength/power.  We had too many OL starting recent seasons at less than 100%, and that accelerates the usual wear and tear that compounds over the course of the season.  Sometimes that makes recovery harder, and sometimes that also means high opportunity cost in lost training time where you might have to fight hard just to get back to where you were before the injury instead of fighting to improve.

The power run game used to work just fine until Stanford stopped being able to move defenders off the ball at the point of attack (bingo, for all the buzzwords).  I think the Duo blocking scheme that Carberry brought is certainly easier and requires a bit less technique (someone can correct me if wrong).  I didn't get time to carefully watch the KSU game, but I wish some Stanford OL alumni would write something about it.  The results speak for themselves though.  The strength and explosiveness are not back, and we are not making holes for Austin Jones.

From Muth's article, "Sometimes offensive line play is just about tossing fools around."  I didn't see that strength from the OL last week.  Won't matter what scheme we run if we can't toss fools around.

RE: OL - JohnR34231 - 09-09-2021

(09-08-2021, 04:04 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:  
(09-08-2021, 10:07 AM)needle Wrote:  I will cop to having outsize expectations for Hinton. He did really well last year in limited time.

Ditto, Needle. Hinton was trucking linemen and linebackers both last year in short yardage formations, especially on the goal line.  I saw Hinton's hold and  it was obvious. Looked like he expected a different move and hopefully won't happen often.

 I also had outsize expectations for Sarrell. He proved to be strong but lead footed and an early leg injury didn't help. He was cut early by ?? this year. If he could train to become more nifty, he could make it. 

And, back to my first question, does anyone know anything about different techniques for the OL this year?


Yeah, Sarrell was touted in HS as one of the, if not the top lineman in the nation. He got exposed a bit in the All American game by the quick D-lineman and dropped down in the rankings somewhat. His Stanford career was decent, but he certainly never lived up to his HS press clippings. Hopefully he can catch on with another NFL team and his pro career is not over before it started.

RE: OL - Goose - 09-09-2021

Quote:Yeah, Sarrell was touted in HS as one of the, if not the top lineman in the nation. He got exposed a bit in the All American game by the quick D-lineman and dropped down in the rankings somewhat. His Stanford career was decent, but he certainly never lived up to his HS press clippings. Hopefully he can catch on with another NFL team and his pro career is not over before it started.
I hope he gets another shot but I am not optimistic about the results. He was a bit too slow to be real effective at the college level. In the NFL the defenses are both strong AND quick. If they can go around you with quickness, they will. Sarrell just isn't quick enough.

RE: OL - bl82 - 09-09-2021

A duo blocking scheme primer:
https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/05/10/duo-concept/

RE: OL - old spanish trail - 09-09-2021

(09-09-2021, 08:51 AM)bl82 Wrote:  A duo blocking scheme primer:
https://weeklyspiral.com/2021/05/10/duo-concept/

Terrific analysis, Bl. Thanks. Maybe Jones didn't read the lb correctly, e.g., but looked to me like the plays were stuffed before he ever got there.

RE: OL - gailtate - 09-09-2021

Sometimes you just have to look at bigger piece of territory from a higher altitude to get the most concise analyis: in this case, the general decline of the program as seen from the perspective of O-Line injuries and inferior play. This facet of the team was arguably most affected by the departure of, again, Shannon Turley. Tom FitzGerald, erstwhile SFChronicle beat writer many years for Stanford football, wrote a piece not long before leaving the paper in which he reported several NFL scouts who were shaking their heads at the physically weaker offensive linemen at Stanford compared to the players of the early 20-teens--the Big Bowl squads. There's a straight line between (a) the generic, vanilla S&C program Stanford evidently runs today in the absence of Turley and (b) the decline of the larger football program. Anybody who will not (or cannot) see this is a Mr. Magoo.

RE: OL - CowboyIndian - 09-09-2021

(09-09-2021, 01:37 PM)gailtate Wrote:  There's a straight line between (a) the generic, vanilla S&C program Stanford evidently runs today in the absence of Turley and (b) the decline of the larger football program. Anybody who will not (or cannot) see this is a Mr. Magoo.

As I recall, there were a great number of injuries in Turley's next-to-last and last years as well. I know that doesn't resonate with your view but that's what I remember.

RE: OL - gailtate - 09-09-2021

(09-09-2021, 01:48 PM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  
(09-09-2021, 01:37 PM)gailtate Wrote:  There's a straight line between (a) the generic, vanilla S&C program Stanford evidently runs today in the absence of Turley and (b) the decline of the larger football program. Anybody who will not (or cannot) see this is a Mr. Magoo.

As I recall, there were a great number of injuries in Turley's next-to-last and last years as well. I know that doesn't resonate with your view but that's what I remember.

Point well taken. Still, Turley's absence, IMHO, has not helped to mitigate the steady and very apparent erosion of talent elsewhere in the program. My  gripe has been and continues to be simply this: what Shaw inherited has not been restored or replenished. For the sake of his legacy, he must reverse what's trending right now. If he doesn't, he will be forever be known as the guy who took what he inherited from his predecessor on to unprecedented heights -- before riding it straight into the ground.