Hall of Fame - Printable Version

Hall of Fame - Printable Version

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Hall of Fame - Phogge - 01-26-2022

No Bonds and no chance for Kent.

I think if Bonds didn’t cheat he might have hit .400. His pitch recognition was as good as Williams and he could have learned to bunt down the line. One of the greatest players ever but I wouldn’t have voted for him. Not because of PED’s but because I had many occasions to see how he treated people, me included more than five times. So yes, I think personal relations matter to voters. Maybe totally unfair but I don’t GAS. Clemens behavior was worse. Saw him go way, way out of his way to put a shoulder into a stillman just before the A’s playoff when he was tossed. Of course the CS producer buried the video cassette. May they burn in Hell.

RE: Hall of Fame - BobK - 01-26-2022

Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

RE: Hall of Fame - 82lsju - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

so what's your position on Pete Rose for the HoF?

RE: Hall of Fame - Giants - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

Agree. A good percentage of the current HOF members would not meet the standards in use today.

RE: Hall of Fame - BobK - 01-26-2022

Yes that’s a brobdingnagian question for me. But most hits ever for a baseball player. Yes he should be in. No I haven’t always thought that.

RE: Hall of Fame - Giants - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 10:54 AM)82lsju Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

so what's your position on Pete Rose for the HoF?

No. Betting on games in which you participate as a player, coach or manager is a no-go. And yes, I am sure there are guys in the HOF who were inveterate gamblers but unlike Rose none of them openly acknowledged this behavior.

RE: Hall of Fame - 82lsju - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 10:59 AM)Giants Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 10:54 AM)82lsju Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

so what's your position on Pete Rose for the HoF?

No. Betting on games in which you participate as a player, coach or manager is a no-go. And yes, I am sure there are guys in the HOF who were inveterate gamblers but unlike Rose none of them openly acknowledged this behavior.

well he acknowledged it after he lied about it....

RE: Hall of Fame - bl82 - 01-26-2022

I was curious about how much being an asshole hurt Ty Cobb in his voting. I did a little Googling and was surprised to see the results, including some of the names down the list:

Wednesday, November 19, 2003
Cobb tops first MLB Hall of Fame vote
By Larry Schwartz
Special to ESPN.com

Feb. 2, 1936

In the first voting for Baseball's Hall of Fame, a singles hitter beats out the sport's greatest slugger. Ty Cobb, who had 4,191 hits, receives 222 of 226 votes from players and writers. Babe Ruth, who bashed 714 home runs, and Honus Wagner are tied for second in the balloting, with 215 votes each.

Also elected to the Hall in Cooperstown, N.Y., are Christy Mathewson (205) and Walter Johnson (189). Among the players not getting the 75 percent of the total votes needed for election are Nap Lajoie (146), Tris Speaker (133), Cy Young (111), Rogers Hornsby (105) and Mickey Cochrane (80).

Cobb is uncharacteristically modest when told of his receiving the most votes. "I deeply appreciate the honor," says the Georgia Peach, interrupting a round of golf in San Francisco. "I am overwhelmed. I am glad they (the players and writers who elected him) feel that way about me. I want to thank them all."

Besides his hits record, Cobb also is No. 1 in games (3,034), at-bats (11,429), runs (2,245), batting championships (12) and most seasons hitting .300 (23).

RE: Hall of Fame - lex24 - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 10:56 AM)Giants Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

Agree. A good percentage of the current HOF members would not meet the standards in use today.

What “standards”?

RE: Hall of Fame - gailtate - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 09:31 AM)Phogge Wrote: No Bonds and no chance for Kent.

I think if Bonds didn’t cheat he might have hit .400. His pitch recognition was as good as Williams and he could have learned to bunt down the line. One of the greatest players ever but I wouldn’t have voted for him. Not because of PED’s but because I had many occasions to see how he treated people, me included more than five times. So yes, I think personal relations matter to voters. Maybe totally unfair but I don’t GAS. Clemens behavior was worse. Saw him go way, way out of his way to put a shoulder into a stillman just before the A’s playoff when he was tossed. Of course the CS producer buried the video cassette. May they burn in Hell.

What we know is that PEDs deliver an advantage that never existed before. While they inevitably destroy the body, they enable(d) extraordinary performance and quick recovery from intense, strength-building workouts and certain injuries. It was a significant competitive advantage enjoyed only by the users. We'll never really know what any given user could or could not have accomplished without the benefit of PEDs. But their stats are rightfully accompanied by asterisks that will be there forever. And in the case of the biggest names, PEDs will be noted in the first paragraphs of their obituaries. Fitting.

RE: Hall of Fame - Giants - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 10:56 AM)Giants Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

Agree. A good percentage of the current HOF members would not meet the standards in use today.

What “standards”?

“Standards” can be defined as - The personal opinion held by each voter regarding whether they think a player should be elected to the HOF.

A sample standard: I am not voting for player X because he never sat for an interview with me.

or

I am voting for Player X because he always took time to talk to me and dish the dirt on his colleagues.

Writers have always held grudges against certain players or had particular favorites but I think today’s voting is influenced by these factors more so than in the past.

RE: Hall of Fame - TrumpCard - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 10:56 AM)Giants Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

Agree. A good percentage of the current HOF members would not meet the standards in use today.

What “standards”?

"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election.

RE: Hall of Fame - CowboyIndian - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 07:14 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election.

Similar criteria for the College Football Award that shall not be mentioned. And look what that got Andrew, Toby, Christian and Bryce.

lex24 - lex24 - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 07:14 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 10:56 AM)Giants Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:38 AM)BobK Wrote: Well I think the Hall of Fame is for great baseball players not great people not great personalities but baseball
Ok we can arm wrestle over this if we ever get lunch again

Agree. A good percentage of the current HOF members would not meet the standards in use today.

What “standards”?

"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played." https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election.

Sorry, sarcasm doesn’t play well on a board. Standards are supposed to be evenly applied. These aren’t standards. They are empty words.

RE: Hall of Fame - BillBradley - 01-26-2022

It's all for naught anyway. Yes, the Baseball Writers have passed on Bonds and Clemens 10 times, so they won't get in via that ballot. Instead, they will have to wait until...December of this year. That's when the "Today's Game" committee meets and votes. That committee is comprised of people who were actually involved in competition (hall of fame players, managers, umpires, etc.) and a handful of senior writers. They won't be as focused on the character piece (or the "he was a jerk to me and never gave me stuff to write about" piece) and will almost certainly vote both of them into the HOF in December. Highly doubtful they keep a 7 time MVP and a 7 time Cy Young winner out of the hall. The voting situation is way different than Rose, where he was kicked out of baseball and thus can't appear on any of these ballots.

p.s. It's crazy to look at Bonds stats on https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml. His big year (2001) where he broke the record and hit 73 homers sticks out like a sore thumb. The years right before and immediately after 2001 were very close in numbers. His numbers after they instituted steroid testing were crazy good. A$$hole and cheater, but an unbelievable baseball player.

RE: Hall of Fame - Phogge - 01-26-2022

I’m not talking about not sitting for an interview. I’m talking about boorish behavior, name calling, threatening language and during the ill fated interlude of his “reality show” stepping on toes and getting in the way of other people’s job responsibilities.

He had the right to be non co-operative, he didn’t have the right to abuse people.

Great hitter however. FYI I root against Tiger too. Just me.

RE: Hall of Fame - BillBradley - 01-26-2022

(01-26-2022, 09:34 PM)Phogge Wrote: I’m not talking about not sitting for an interview. I’m talking about boorish behavior, name calling, threatening language and during the ill fated interlude of his “reality show” stepping on toes and getting in the way of other people’s job responsibilities.

He had the right to be non co-operative, he didn’t have the right to abuse people.

Great hitter however. FYI I root against Tiger too. Just me.

Other than his infidelity, which I admit is enough, are there other reasons you root against Tiger? I'm just curious, because so many people root against him. But I don't put him anywhere near the same level as Bonds on the despicable scale.

RE: Hall of Fame - DC 86 - 01-27-2022

(01-26-2022, 09:52 PM)BillBradley Wrote:
(01-26-2022, 09:34 PM)Phogge Wrote: I’m not talking about not sitting for an interview. I’m talking about boorish behavior, name calling, threatening language and during the ill fated interlude of his “reality show” stepping on toes and getting in the way of other people’s job responsibilities.

He had the right to be non co-operative, he didn’t have the right to abuse people.

Great hitter however. FYI I root against Tiger too. Just me.
Other than his infidelity, which I admit is enough, are there other reasons you root against Tiger? I'm just curious, because so many people root against him. But I don't put him anywhere near the same level as Bonds on the despicable scale.

He is known as a notoriously bad tipper, which isn't cool.

I met him one-on-one (after making a donation to his foundation, which obviously influenced his demeanor) and he was charming and reminisced fondly about his Stanford years. But he is known to be standoffish and moody, although he has so many people pulling at him 24/7 that I understand that he's had to develop a hard shell around himself. I don't know Phogge's experience with him but I sympathize with trying to live with his level of fame and the constant demands on him.

RE: Hall of Fame - Spiny_Norman - 01-27-2022

Re: Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose. They are still on the MLB list of people banned from the game. The BBWAA and the Veterans Committee has said that they will not consider anyone on the Banned List. So it is a moot point to discuss their cases unless/until they are reinstated by MLB. The advocates for Shoeless Joe Jackson presented the case for reinstatement to Rob Manfred shortly after he became commissioner. He rejected it.

There is one player who was added to the Banned List AFTER he was inducted into the Hall of Fame - Robbie Alomar. But the Hall of Fame has said that they will not remove him.

All of the steroid era players are eligible. They have never been accused as far as I know of violating any MLB rules with regard to PEDs.

RE: Hall of Fame - JJJ - 01-27-2022

I have no dog in this fight, but I found this amusing.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/extrabaggs/status/1486477282898186240?s=20&t=V-1Q6d-SPHC9Y9DmBE-ecw[/tweet]