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Books vs. Movies - Renaissance Man - 08-12-2014

I arrived very late for the long movie thread.  Reading all the praise for The Edge of Tomorrow makes me want to mention that this is one of the rare times that I enjoyed the movie more than the book (Hiroshi Sakurazaka's All You Need Is Kill was a fun read, but I liked Edge much more than the novel).
I can think of two or three more examples (out of hundreds of adaptations that I could compare).  Anybody else with an example that comes to mind?

Re: Books vs. Movies - SUBuddha - 08-12-2014

My own would have to be The Short Timers by Gustav Hasford. I recall thinking the book was great (keep in mind I read it in 7th or 9th grade for a history project on American involvement in Vietnam). It was eventually made into the movie Full Metal Jacket. I thought the movie captured the first half or so of the book better than the book itself. I wish they had followed the whole book through.

Re: Books vs. Movies - Leftcoast - 08-12-2014

When I love a book I approach the movie guardedly.    How will the director envision the thing I love?  What plot elements will he necessarily change in order to transfer it to a different story-telling medium?  What role will the limitations in budget, film time, talent and movie technology play?

Anyone else love Dune and hate the movie?  How about Starship Troopers?  The Time Travelers Wife or Water for Elephants? Or more recently, Where the Wild Things Are and The Great Gatsby?  The jury is still out on the Hobbit trilogy but so far they have been disappointing.

For me Blade Runner and the Philip K. Dick novel it was based upon are rare examples of the movie surpassing the book.  I'd add The Godfather and, for a Stanford reference,  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest to that short list.  In each of these the director's vision added texture that I did not get from the books alone.

In the last two examples I read the book AFTER seeing the movie.  Does first exposure shade which creation you see as preeminent?  I suspect my kids prefer the Lord of the Rings movies they saw first to the books.  I regard the movies as well done in their own right but limited compared to Tolkien's world building vision that drove the seminal novels. 

Re: Books vs. Movies - Bruce Wang - 08-12-2014

There's a saying in Hollywood:  A good book makes a bad movie.  A bad book makes a good movie.

Re: Books vs. Movies - george - 08-12-2014

For me Stanley Kubrick accomplishes the trick multiple times.  I never read The Short Timers, so I can't speak to Full Metal Jacket, but I prefer Kubrick's The Shining (much to Stephen King's chagrin having been very public about his dislike of the adaptation.)  I may also be in the minority on this one, but I found the complexity and sinister overtones of his 2001 more enjoyable than the clear cut sci-fi of Arthur C Clarke's original. 

There's something to be said about seeing the movie first -- I enjoyed the girl with the dragon tattoo movie (swedish version) more than the book -- most likely because I saw it first.  And Lefty, I'm embarrassed to admit that I prefer Verhoevan's Starship Troopers to the book. 

As far as least favorite movie adaptation, it's a close call between Time Traveler's Wife and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Re: Books vs. Movies - Leftcoast - 08-12-2014

Oh My!  I'd forgotten about the unwatchable Garth Jennings version of Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  That was awful, awful, awful.

There needs to be a special Garth Jennings award given to directors who produce movies so bad they kill careers or destroy good books.  David Lynch deserves a Jennings Award for what he did to Dune.

Re: Books vs. Movies - dabomb1227 - 08-12-2014

To me the best example is Field of Dreams, which I found to be a much better movie then Shoeless Joe (the book by W.P. Kinsella)

Re: Books vs. Movies - washingtonismoney - 08-12-2014

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/05/great-books-are-great-at-being-books/57158/

Re: Books vs. Movies - terry - 08-12-2014

I think the book almost always is better than the movie, even when the movie is very good.

A few movies that I liked better than the book:

The Wizard of Oz
Mary Poppins
The Princess Bride
The Natural

A couple of movies that I've heard are better than the book, but I haven't read the book:

Jaws
Forrest Gump

Re: Books vs. Movies - terry - 08-12-2014

(08-12-2014, 12:20 PM)dabomb1227 link Wrote:To me the best example is Field of Dreams, which I found to be a much better movie then Shoeless Joe (the book by W.P. Kinsella)

Wow, I didn't have that reaction at all. I think Field of Dreams is good, but I think Shoeless Joe is really, really good.

Re: Books vs. Movies - dabomb1227 - 08-12-2014

(08-12-2014, 01:16 PM)terry link Wrote:[quote author=dabomb1227 link=topic=10346.msg94175#msg94175 date=1407871253]
To me the best example is Field of Dreams, which I found to be a much better movie then Shoeless Joe (the book by W.P. Kinsella)

Wow, I didn't have that reaction at all. I think Field of Dreams is good, but I think Shoeless Joe is really, really good.
[/quote]

To each his own.

I think one thing that distorts this discussion is the order in which you read the book/see the movie.  If you read it first, then you have a perception of what everything looks like and may be disappointed with the adaptation.  If you see the movie first then your impression is that of the director and then when you read the book you see the movie when envisioning the scenes (which you may have seen differently).

One of my favorite books (The Giver) is about to come out as a movie.  I will probably see it though the trailer makes me think I will not like it nearly as much as the book.

Re: Books vs. Movies - Leftcoast - 08-12-2014

Interesting  George that you preferred  the movie version of Starship Troopers. 

I grew up reading Heinlein and loved his readibility and optimism.  It didn 't hurt that geeky kids who became engineers were his typical heroes.  As an adult his flaws have become more jarring - particularly his preachiness and his unbelievable female characters.  I still love Heinlein at his Moon is a Harsh Mistress best while I wince at parts of "Friday" or "Glory Road".  To me the ST movie was almost TOO faithful to the book and seemed to rub my nose in the flaws of my childhood hero.

Have you read Forever War and Old Man's War?  Both seemed to me to be obvious authorial responses to Heinlein's vision in Starship Troopers.  You might even throw Ender's Game into that mix (another ho-hum movie adaptation, by the way).

Still, it speaks to the power of Heinlein's simple militaristic/humanistic "bug" story that 50 years later authors are reacting to it.

We now return you to your regular programming ....

Re: Books vs. Movies - george - 08-13-2014

(08-12-2014, 11:17 PM)leftcoast link Wrote:Have you read Forever War and Old Man's War?  Both seemed to me to be obvious authorial responses to Heinlein's vision in Starship Troopers.  You might even throw Ender's Game into that mix (another ho-hum movie adaptation, by the way).

Still, it speaks to the power of Heinlein's simple militaristic/humanistic "bug" story that 50 years later authors are still reacting to it.

I haven't read Forever War or Old Man's War, I'll have to check them out.  And I completely agree with your observation of Heinlein's Starship Troopers influence 50 years later.  You could even make an argument for Renaissance Man's thread inspiring "Edge of Tomorrow" as drawing influence from the ST tree. 

I refuse to watch Ender's Game as this was my favorite book through the better part of my teenage years and can't imagine any film adaptation not completely ruining it. 

My sci-fi tastes have now transferred to Neal Stephenson who seems largely immune to film adaptations by restricting his tomes to at least 1000 pages.

Re: Books vs. Movies - Leftcoast - 08-13-2014

George, good call on skipping Ender's Game.  They tried hard but key pieces such as the Battle Room and "gotcha" ending didn't translate well to film.

Do pick up Old Man's War and Forever War.  Both writers explicitly mention Heinlein as their formative influence and both targeted Starship Troopers with their books.  They are approachable quick reads with character driven story lines very much in the Heinlein mold.  They would be a good breather after a steady diet of Stephenson (and unlike Stephenson they actually have endings!).

Haldeman's Forever War approachs the base ST story from a Vietnam war vet's perspective complete with the jaundiced view that implies.  Political decision makers, home front support and attempts by vets to find purpose in a meaningless war are all dealt with.  Haldeman drew from his own experiences and his war didn't look much like the one described in his dogeared copy of Heinlein. 

Scalzi's Old Man's War is more optimistic but still has the skepticism vets everywhere have for the guys calling the shots.  Scalzi attempts a synthesis between the WWII viewpoint of Heinlein and the Vietnam Era veiw of Haldeman.  Don't expect the dense prose of Neal Stephenson - this is more a fun jaunt with enough SF themes to make you stop and think without getting in the way of a rollicking good plot. 

As a SF reader you may have heard of the two books.  FW won both the Nebula and Hugo awards back in the day and OMW placed second in Hugo voting to SPIN in 2006 (tough year) but nonetheless is often listed as the most important SF novel of 2000-2009.  I'm not sure it deserves that high praise but it did bring a lot of people into the SF fold with its likeable characters, expansive story and interesting takes on future tech. 

Both books have been optioned and are subject to periodic film rumors.  Ridley Scott of Blade Runner fame has the rights to Forever War.  (See I can bring my forgettable bit of thread drift back to the original off topic topic.)

Re: Books vs. Movies - Spiny_Norman - 08-13-2014

Given recent events, I thought that I would chime in on this thread about The World According To Garp.  I think John Irving's book is terrific and much too dense or rich to be contained within a 2 hour movie.  But George Roy Hill did a really nice job on the movie which I very much enjoyed.  The screenplay is credited to Steve Tesich who also wrote Breaking Away.  TWATG was Robin Williams' first semi-dramatic role.  I thought he perfectly captured the complex character of Garp.  I cannot imagine another actor doing as well.

The movie includes this bittersweet observation from Garp's mother (played by Glenn Close) - "You know, everybody dies. My parents died. Your father died. Everybody dies. I'm going to die too. So will you. The thing is, to have a life before we die. It can be a real adventure having a life."

Re: Books vs. Movies - oman - 08-13-2014

So if I thought Field of Dreams was a truly awful, cloying flick, should I give Shoeless Joe a try to turn my pathetic and angry life around?

"No way that is Shoeless Joe" scene in Eight Men Out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Field  of Dreams Where Amy Madigan's Obnoxious Character is Buried

Here is Jessica:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJVLV-Zf01k

Re: Books vs. Movies - TreeWeird - 08-13-2014

I'm hoping for a movie version of Rags to Roses. 

Who plays JH?

Re: Books vs. Movies - Bruce Wang - 08-14-2014

(08-13-2014, 07:05 PM)TreeWeird link Wrote:I'm hoping for a movie version of Rags to Roses. 

Who plays JH?

He should play himself.  The guy has acting chops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuKrcjskQiU

Re: Books vs. Movies - yvonne - 08-14-2014

[Image: 10610833_842589475760044_423748986362211...582848b7a6]

Great posts, George - Mick - 08-15-2014

(08-13-2014, 02:11 PM)george link Wrote:[quote author=leftcoast link=topic=10346.msg94196#msg94196 date=1407910673]
Have you read Forever War and Old Man's War?  Both seemed to me to be obvious authorial responses to Heinlein's vision in Starship Troopers.  You might even throw Ender's Game into that mix (another ho-hum movie adaptation, by the way).

Still, it speaks to the power of Heinlein's simple militaristic/humanistic "bug" story that 50 years later authors are still reacting to it.

I haven't read Forever War or Old Man's War, I'll have to check them out.  And I completely agree with your observation of Heinlein's Starship Troopers influence 50 years later.  You could even make an argument for Renaissance Man's thread inspiring "Edge of Tomorrow" as drawing influence from the ST tree. 

I refuse to watch Ender's Game as this was my favorite book through the better part of my teenage years and can't imagine any film adaptation not completely ruining it. 

My sci-fi tastes have now transferred to Neal Stephenson who seems largely immune to film adaptations by restricting his tomes to at least 1000 pages.
[/quote]

By that, I mean taht I feel exactly the same way as you do.  I do like Stephenson, and I don't see any realistic translation of his books to movies, save for a lengthy miniseries.

Stephen King didn't much like The Shining movie.  The Shining was the first King book I read and still among my favorites, but I thought that the movie was at least its equal, perhaps for different reasons.  King himself said that movies fit more to the structure of novellas (100 pages or so) like the movie Stand by Me which was adopted from King's novella The Body.