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RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-25-2019

It seems a bit nuts to say, but after that 5-2 homestead, I think the Giants are fooling themselves thinking they are contenders. Moreover, the Rockies are on some kind of terrible stretch right now, and that 4-game sweep in Colorado is looking a little less impressive. The starting pitching is average and the offense is below average.  The bullpen helps close the gap, but not enough. They just do not have enough firepower in the lineup or the starting pitching quality to contend. I wonder if things would have been different if Longoria kept hot instead of getting injured, but it doesn't matter.

At this point it's politically impossible to trade Bumgarner, but I think they must deal Smith and anyone else for help at 2B and 1B, and failing that, prospects. Pretty sure they will let things ride with the current Outfield after totally changing it out already. Then it's pull from the minors from Aug. 1 onward.

If they can stay in the race, maybe Cueto helps in September, but the Nationals, Cardinals, Phillies, Brewers, maybe even D-Backs, appear better equipped to snare the 2 wild card spots.

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-25-2019

Lonnegan got stung by Butch and Sundance.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-25-2019

Let’s see what the weekend brings. They get swept in SD and everything changes. This thing is day to day. Kind of like a minor strained hamstring.

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-26-2019

Holland traded to the Cubs today. Loved him last year. For cash that’s it

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-26-2019

Dave Cash? Norm Cash?

RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-26-2019

59 games to make up 4. That’s a really tough row to hoe.

At least one of the teams ahead of them will play close to .600 down the stretch. 36-24 means SF has to go 40-20 to catch them, gulp.

I think Dickerson needs to play everyday for them to have a shot. But he might be slightly injured.

RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-26-2019

(07-26-2019, 01:34 PM)Phogge Wrote:  Dave Cash? Norm Cash?

Cold Hard Cash. Best player available in exchange for Holland.

RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-26-2019

Here are the Bovada odds for whom Mad Bum plays for after the trade deadline:

Giants -500 (i.e. 1:5)
Red Sox +650 (i.e. 6.5 to 1)
Yanks +650
Houston +750
Atlanta +1000

RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-27-2019

The Giants now have 4 Top 100 prospects according to the latest MLB rankings.  That ties them with the Dodgers.  

The Giants' best prospects are at the A level and lower. They are basically 2-3 years away from being Giants.  AA Richmond is a disaster of a team, last in the Eastern League in hitting, HRs, and runs scored.  At the same time, they are 2nd to last in team pitching. No wonder they are 38-64 this season. The Giants need more talent above the A level to fill in the gap that is the wretched AA level and the old guys playing in Sacramento.  

The Giants are not going to beat out two of the Cubs/Cardinals, Nationals, Phillies, Brewers, and D-Backs. They are fooling themselves thinking they are contenders in any way, shape or form. They are a slightly above average team.  Wasting the opportunity they have to infuse their system with more talent would be quite foolish.

As the trade deadline approaches the Giants are going to get better and better offers for their assets. I hope they are able to dispense with emotions about the current team and will make cold-blooded logical ones taking in the bigger picture future.

RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-27-2019

(07-27-2019, 09:02 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  As the trade deadline approaches the Giants are going to get better and better offers for their assets. I hope they are able to dispense with emotions about the current team and will make cold-blooded logical ones taking in the bigger picture future.

I also hope they make "cold-blooded" logical decisions. The piece we are all missing is what the Giants can actually get for what they have on offer. I suspect it is much less than we collectively believe. To my mind, the attraction of a "rent-a-player" type deal should be greater the longer the rental period. As the rental period gets shorter, the potential value goes down, not up. The only reason to wait to the last minute is if you are not sure your team is good enough that the rental player will matter or because you think the rental player will really help you in the post season (and you don't need him to get there). Not many teams in those catagories that have much to offer in trade.

There are some bullpen players that are on reasonably long contracts that may be attractive to other teams. However, these are not "game changers" that can attract a premium price. It just may be there are no real good trades out there for SF. Most of the possible position player trades are players that are not on particularly good contracts (e.g. Belt). Those guys will be hard to trade and probably not yield much.

RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-27-2019

Hey guys the 9.9 EQ can strike tomorrow. Go for it Farhan!

RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-27-2019

Goose you said it all. Thank you

RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-27-2019

Maybe they can sign Roy Hobbs.

RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-27-2019

(07-27-2019, 09:02 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The Giants now have 4 Top 100 prospects according to the latest MLB rankings.  That ties them with the Dodgers.  

The Giants' best prospects are at the A level and lower. They are basically 2-3 years away from being Giants.  AA Richmond is a disaster of a team, last in the Eastern League in hitting, HRs, and runs scored.  At the same time, they are 2nd to last in team pitching. No wonder they are 38-64 this season. The Giants need more talent above the A level to fill in the gap that is the wretched AA level and the old guys playing in Sacramento.  

The Giants are not going to beat out two of the Cubs/Cardinals, Nationals, Phillies, Brewers, and D-Backs. They are fooling themselves thinking they are contenders in any way, shape or form. They are a slightly above average team.  Wasting the opportunity they have to infuse their system with more talent would be quite foolish.

As the trade deadline approaches the Giants are going to get better and better offers for their assets. I hope they are able to dispense with emotions about the current team and will make cold-blooded logical ones taking in the bigger picture future.

Just for balance, let's include the fact that the Giants' AAA team, the Sacramento River Cats are first in the Pacific Coast League Pacific North division with a 57-48 record.  They're fourth of 16 teams in both batting and pitching.  Last year they were 12th in pitching and 7th in batting, finishing last in their division.  

Things are looking up everywhere but AA.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-28-2019

Minor league W-L records are irrelevant. It’s about player development. Prospects are what matter. According to Baseball America they have gone from either 29-30 (can’t remember) to 15 in less than one year under Farhan. That may be even more important than what they (he) have achieved at Major League level.

And I really wonder if all these guys are two or three years away. Things happen much faster today. There are a heck of a lot of players 23 and under who are big-time major-league players. So it could be a little quicker for a couple of these guys - Heliot Ramos especially. Nonetheless there is definitely a gap between the guys you see they brought up to the major leagues – who are in their late 20s or even early 30s and the talent that the Giants have at the High A and below level.

That is why before they went on this run the thought was that he was going to be selling to bridge that gap – looking at players who are ready now or next year. I still think he’ll make a couple deals along those lines and if they lose today and Tuesday then I think it’s possible he trades Bumgarner. That is a little complicated given his 8 team no trade clause.

Whatever happens I trust Farhan. Let him make the decision please. Larry Baer stay out of it.


(07-27-2019, 09:02 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  The Giants now have 4 Top 100 prospects according to the latest MLB rankings.  That ties them with the Dodgers.  

The Giants' best prospects are at the A level and lower. They are basically 2-3 years away from being Giants.  AA Richmond is a disaster of a team, last in the Eastern League in hitting, HRs, and runs scored.  At the same time, they are 2nd to last in team pitching. No wonder they are 38-64 this season. The Giants need more talent above the A level to fill in the gap that is the wretched AA level and the old guys playing in Sacramento.  

The Giants are not going to beat out two of the Cubs/Cardinals, Nationals, Phillies, Brewers, and D-Backs. They are fooling themselves thinking they are contenders in any way, shape or form. They are a slightly above average team.  Wasting the opportunity they have to infuse their system with more talent would be quite foolish.

As the trade deadline approaches the Giants are going to get better and better offers for their assets. I hope they are able to dispense with emotions about the current team and will make cold-blooded logical ones taking in the bigger picture future.


lex24 - lex24 - 07-28-2019

Why isn’t Posey hitting seventh? Putting him in the middle of the order is folly. He has no power, can’t run and hits into a ton of double plays. Further, this isn’t a situation anymore where he is going to find it. At least not this year. Maybe never. He simply caught too many games.

He’s a great defensive catcher and in my mind a future HOF. But he’s no longer a middle of the order hitter. Not even close.

RE: lex24 - qwerty49 - 07-28-2019

(07-28-2019, 01:22 PM)lex24 Wrote:  Why isn’t Posey hitting seventh? Putting him in the middle of the order is folly. He has no power, can’t run and hits into a ton of double plays. Further, this isn’t a situation anymore where he is going to find it. At least not this year. Maybe never. He simply caught too many games.

He’s a great defensive catcher and in my mind a future HOF. But he’s no longer a middle of the order hitter. Not even close.

They simply don't have the sticks, haven't had them all year.  Belt leadoff?  Austin batting 2nd today?  If you look at Pillar, Crawford, Panik, Posey, Yaz, Belt -- there's 6 potential starters who in a decent lineup would never bat higher than 6th.

RE: lex24 - Goose - 07-28-2019

(07-28-2019, 01:41 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  They simply don't have the sticks, haven't had them all year.

That really says it all. Nobody on this team is hitting for any kind of average, and their "power" isn't doing much either. However, they have hung in. They have won more games than their hitting can really be expected to provide. I had hopes that Posey and Crawford would be returning to their career averages. Isn't happening. Given that, it is hard to imagine them getting a wild card spot. Yet, they are still there. I don't expect lots of trades by the Giants at the deadline, partly because they are still at least "in the hunt", but mostly because they can't get much that is good for what they have to trade. Making a "nothing" trade doesn't make sense especially if it pisses off the fans.

lex24 - lex24 - 07-28-2019

They can’t get much for Bum, Smith, Dyson and Watson? That I don’t agree with. Pitching sells.

The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend. The bigger issue is the starting pitching. Bum. But then... you have The Shark. Who has pitched fairly well, but how long will that last. Plus he’s a back end of the rotation guy. After that, three rookies.

(07-28-2019, 02:04 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(07-28-2019, 01:41 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  They simply don't have the sticks, haven't had them all year.

That really says it all. Nobody on this team is hitting for any kind of average, and their "power" isn't doing much either. However, they have hung in. They have won more games than their hitting can really be expected to provide. I had hopes that Posey and Crawford would be returning to their career averages. Isn't happening. Given that, it is hard to imagine them getting a wild card spot. Yet, they are still there. I don't expect lots of trades by the Giants at the deadline, partly because they are still at least "in the hunt", but mostly because they can't get much that is good for what they have to trade. Making a "nothing" trade doesn't make sense especially  if it pisses off the fans.


RE: lex24 - Phogge - 07-28-2019

(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote:  They can’t get much for Bum, Smith, Dyson and Watson? That I don’t agree with. Pitching sells.

The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend. The bigger issue is the starting pitching. Bum. But then... you have The Shark. Who has pitched fairly well, but how long will that last. Plus he’s a back end of the rotation guy.  After that, three rookies.

Bum is not going anywhere. I think Smith might. Watson and Dyson to close the last two months. Screw prospects, package Belt with Smith and eat his contract on an addition by subtraction trade. Get a bat for Smith. A now bat not some take a chance on an 18 year old kid like the Rays did today. Balls out Bob!

(07-28-2019, 02:04 PM)Goose Wrote:  
(07-28-2019, 01:41 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:  They simply don't have the sticks, haven't had them all year.

That really says it all. Nobody on this team is hitting for any kind of average, and their "power" isn't doing much either. However, they have hung in. They have won more games than their hitting can really be expected to provide. I had hopes that Posey and Crawford would be returning to their career averages. Isn't happening. Given that, it is hard to imagine them getting a wild card spot. Yet, they are still there. I don't expect lots of trades by the Giants at the deadline, partly because they are still at least "in the hunt", but mostly because they can't get much that is good for what they have to trade. Making a "nothing" trade doesn't make sense especially  if it pisses off the fans.