WBB: the NCAA tournament - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - joemontes - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 07:32 PM)standfan Wrote: Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.As Sue BIRD and Diana TAURASI said in their show, CLARK is BIRD+TAURASI in one player,
Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.
Iowa has hit 13 of 28 three-point attempts with 4 the starters having at least one made three pointers.
which is an uber superlative compliment, given that BIRD is considerd the greatest USA PG
of all time while TAURASI is arguably the greatest USA WBB player of all time.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - standfan - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 09:13 PM)joemontes Wrote:She was worth the price of admission. If we had made it to the Elite 8 and played Iowa, Clark would have been the Hawkeye's revenge for McCaffrey. And they have not forgotten him. In several conversations I had with Iowa fans at the arena, after I identified as a Stanford fan (he, him, Cardinal), the buckeyes almost immediately brought up the Rose Bowl and CMac.(03-26-2023, 07:32 PM)standfan Wrote: Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.As Sue BIRD and Diana TAURASI said in their show, CLARK is BIRD+TAURASI in one player,
Clark is lighting it up. She has 25 points and nine assist. It seems like there are a whole lot more Iowa fans than Louisville fans here.
Iowa has hit 13 of 28 three-point attempts with 4 the starters having at least one made three pointers.
which is an uber superlative compliment, given that BIRD is considered the greatest USA PG
of all time while TAURASI is arguably the greatest USA WBB player of all time.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 76lsjumb - 03-26-2023
Alas, Caitlin Clark is the player that I was hoping Haley Jones would become.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - chimera - 03-26-2023
The first game was miserable to watch, probably was to play too. WCBB seems to be going that direction more and more. I blame transfers causing many teams to lose cohesiveness on offense because the players have much less time to work together, and focus on being physical with very tough defense to compensate. This trend sucks.
The second game was not that close but was still enjoyable to watch. Both teams could score. Maybe the defenses were not that great. I'd rather see that than the opposite. Clark is a ton of fun to watch.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - martyup - 03-26-2023
It was fun watching HVL and Clark go at it. Both were very impressive, but Clark was phenomenal. I think Iowa will give SC a tough game.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-27-2023
(03-26-2023, 09:35 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: Alas, Caitlin Clark is the player that I was hoping Haley Jones would become.
She would have had to shrink an inch or two and lose some weight. Moreover, while both are super versatile, Clark is a guard who could play the 1, 2, or 3 positions, while Jones is a forward who is really a 3 or a 4, but could spell you some time at the 1. There is no comparison between them in long distance shooting, and I don’t think Jones was ever going to be that prodigious of a shooter (but I think we all hoped for something approaching her tournament shooting performance two years ago). OTOH, Jones brings some things that Clark doesn’t; I don’t think Clark would be great defending the paint or boxing out larger players.
BC
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Jskass - 03-27-2023
(03-26-2023, 09:58 PM)chimera Wrote: The first game was miserable to watch, probably was to play too. WCBB seems to be going that direction more and more. I blame transfers causing many teams to lose cohesiveness on offense because the players have much less time to work together, and focus on being physical with very tough defense to compensate. This trend sucks.So this one place we can also agree finally to also blame the refs. This would not be an effective strategy if they called the game tightly. For us in Seattle, there was a brobdingnagian difference in how they called the Iowa-Louisville game than say yesterday’s games (tOSU vs UConn and TN vs. VT) or even the day before when CO and Ole Miss were able to be chippy. Question tonight was whether these refs were just better, whether the NCAA got blowback esp after yesterday’s punch, or whether they protect Clark and her teammates.
The second game was not that close but was still enjoyable to watch. Both teams could score. Maybe the defenses were not that great. I'd rather see that than the opposite. Clark is a ton of fun to watch.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BobK - 03-27-2023
This is NIT news. Washington plays in the semis on Wednesday having beaten Oregon
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - crackpot - 03-27-2023
(03-26-2023, 09:58 PM)chimera Wrote: The first game was miserable to watch, probably was to play too. WCBB seems to be going that direction more and more. I blame transfers causing many teams to lose cohesiveness on offense because the players have much less time to work together, and focus on being physical with very tough defense to compensate. This trend sucks.
The second game was not that close but was still enjoyable to watch. Both teams could score. Maybe the defenses were not that great. I'd rather see that than the opposite. Clark is a ton of fun to watch.
Speaking of transfers...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DijonaiVictoria/status/1640250135455080450[/tweet]
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BosCard - 03-27-2023
Courtney Ogden will be in the McDonald’s All American game tomorrow. She was more of a team first player on the national team so I expect other players (E.g. Watkins) will be taking a lot more shots. But excited to see her play
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - petersalas - 03-27-2023
I seriously wish people would stop giving her credibility. Now she’s got people thinking she treats non white players bad. Candice Wiggins, Nneka, Chiney, Kiana are just a few non white that have said many wonderful things about Tara. DiJonai blocked me on Twitter because she didn’t like me asking questions about why she felt how she felt. I was completely respectful and trying to understand and when I defended the Stanford program she just blocked me.. she must be bitter the scholarship was offered to Anna, but that doesn’t give her a right to tarnish someone’s character or reputation especially in this cancel culture.
(03-27-2023, 08:54 AM)crackpot Wrote:(03-26-2023, 09:58 PM)chimera Wrote: The first game was miserable to watch, probably was to play too. WCBB seems to be going that direction more and more. I blame transfers causing many teams to lose cohesiveness on offense because the players have much less time to work together, and focus on being physical with very tough defense to compensate. This trend sucks.
The second game was not that close but was still enjoyable to watch. Both teams could score. Maybe the defenses were not that great. I'd rather see that than the opposite. Clark is a ton of fun to watch.
Speaking of transfers...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DijonaiVictoria/status/1640250135455080450[/tweet]
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BillBradley - 03-27-2023
A few thoughts on physicality in the women's game and pretty ball vs. ugly ball...
While I agree that pretty ball is more fun to watch, I do like that the women's game is getting more physical. All you have to do is look at how physical the men's game is (and has been for quite some time) and that's the evolution the women will go through. Long term I think it's a good thing that the women's game is evolving this way. Just like Steph, Ja, et al, there's a premium for guards who can attack, pass, and shoot it from deep, thereby making physical defenses less effective. It will be great fun to see if Clark can get it done against So Carolina, and to watch her and Bueckers next year.
This past season, as many have observed, Tara couldn't figure out a way to effectively compete against this defensive style of play given our personnel. Our natty team had Lexie and Kianna, 2 players who were much harder to contain and could combat the physicality with their skillset. I think Tara would be the first to say she would love to have a bunch of guards who could all shoot the 3, attack the basket and pull up from midrange. But really, the women's game has historically been dominated by bigger players and is still evolving from it. There are so many more hall of fame womens players like Leslie, Parker, Griner, Della-Donne, Stewart, etc etc. than Taurasi. The game is still developing and the pool of these elite guards is quite shallow. Stanford is dealt a much tougher hand when it comes to signing the few players that have these capabilities, so we often don't have them on our roster. But...it's going to change. 10 years from now, there will be many more of these guards because the Clarks and Bueckers will get rewarded and the younger players will model their game accordingly. With more of those type of guards in the game, we'll see less and less teams like Ole Miss. And so it will go...
I also really roll my eyes whenever I read a post about player safety, the refs better get control or someone's gonna get hurt, etc. when it comes to physical play. No one ever says that about a men's game where players are constantly being helped off the court. What would people think if the women's players and coaches whined about the game being "dangerous" at press conferences? "Oh, it's just the sissy women". These players are athletes and competitors and basketball is a contact sport. They aren't scared. They aren't whining. So why do some folks feel like they need to be protected?
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Leftcoast - 03-27-2023
I think it's possible you missed men's basketball as played in the 90s. That type of bully ball was rejected by many players and led to the rule changes that ALLOWED for Steph and the more free-wheeling basketball we see now. Far from allowing laissez-faire officiating, the sport ruling bodies stepped in hard to preserve the beauty of the game. In fact, a lot of players/coaches think the NBA in particular may have cracked down TOO hard on defense.
I don't think we support women's advancement in sport by allowing the modern equivalent of the Pat Riley coached 90s Heat.
(03-27-2023, 10:11 AM)BillBradley Wrote: I also really roll my eyes whenever I read a post about player safety, the refs better get control or someone's gonna get hurt, etc. when it comes to physical play. No one ever says that about a men's game where players are constantly being helped off the court. What would people think if the women's players and coaches whined about the game being "dangerous" at press conferences? "Oh, it's just the sissy women". These players are athletes and competitors and basketball is a contact sport. They aren't scared. They aren't whining. So why do some folks feel like they need to be protected?
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 81alum - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 10:11 AM)BillBradley Wrote: A few thoughts on physicality in the women's game and pretty ball vs. ugly ball...You may well be right about the direction the game is going, but I don't believe it is a good thing. It is a very old debate about WBB that has never really been resolved--because it is fundamentally unresolvable--about whether WBB should strive to close the differences with MBB, or whether WBB should be a distinctive game in its own right. I'm in the latter camp--I think WBB has more to offer by being different than by being the same.
While I agree that pretty ball is more fun to watch, I do like that the women's game is getting more physical. All you have to do is look at how physical the men's game is (and has been for quite some time) and that's the evolution the women will go through. Long term I think it's a good thing that the women's game is evolving this way. Just like Steph, Ja, et al, there's a premium for guards who can attack, pass, and shoot it from deep, thereby making physical defenses less effective. It will be great fun to see if Clark can get it done against So Carolina, and to watch her and Bueckers next year.
This past season, as many have observed, Tara couldn't figure out a way to effectively compete against this defensive style of play given our personnel. Our natty team had Lexie and Kianna, 2 players who were much harder to contain and could combat the physicality with their skillset. I think Tara would be the first to say she would love to have a bunch of guards who could all shoot the 3, attack the basket and pull up from midrange. But really, the women's game has historically been dominated by bigger players and is still evolving from it. There are so many more hall of fame womens players like Leslie, Parker, Griner, Della-Donne, Stewart, etc etc. than Taurasi. The game is still developing and the pool of these elite guards is quite shallow. Stanford is dealt a much tougher hand when it comes to signing the few players that have these capabilities, so we often don't have them on our roster. But...it's going to change. 10 years from now, there will be many more of these guards because the Clarks and Bueckers will get rewarded and the younger players will model their game accordingly. With more of those type of guards in the game, we'll see less and less teams like Ole Miss. And so it will go...
I also really roll my eyes whenever I read a post about player safety, the refs better get control or someone's gonna get hurt, etc. when it comes to physical play. No one ever says that about a men's game where players are constantly being helped off the court. What would people think if the women's players and coaches whined about the game being "dangerous" at press conferences? "Oh, it's just the sissy women". These players are athletes and competitors and basketball is a contact sport. They aren't scared. They aren't whining. So why do some folks feel like they need to be protected?
To that end, I've heard Tara and various WBB analysts over the years speculate about rules changes that might open the game up and make it more offensive. The two that sound intriguing are 1) creating a larger, trapezoidal key, and 2) imposing a 3 second rule for all players in the key--not just offensive players.
The former has been done in some basketball leagues, but it would not be possible to do it for the women and not the men, given that they share the same gyms. The latter, however, seems to have real promise, and I think would be worth one of those "experimental" years.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - Card10Fan - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 10:05 AM)petersalas Wrote: I seriously wish people would stop giving her credibility. Now she’s got people thinking she treats non white players bad. Candice Wiggins, Nneka, Chiney, Kiana are just a few non white that have said many wonderful things about Tara. DiJonai blocked me on Twitter because she didn’t like me asking questions about why she felt how she felt. I was completely respectful and trying to understand and when I defended the Stanford program she just blocked me.. she must be bitter the scholarship was offered to Anna, but that doesn’t give her a right to tarnish someone’s character or reputation especially in this cancel culture.
(03-27-2023, 08:54 AM)crackpot Wrote:(03-26-2023, 09:58 PM)chimera Wrote: The first game was miserable to watch, probably was to play too. WCBB seems to be going that direction more and more. I blame transfers causing many teams to lose cohesiveness on offense because the players have much less time to work together, and focus on being physical with very tough defense to compensate. This trend sucks.
The second game was not that close but was still enjoyable to watch. Both teams could score. Maybe the defenses were not that great. I'd rather see that than the opposite. Clark is a ton of fun to watch.
Speaking of transfers...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DijonaiVictoria/status/1640250135455080450[/tweet]
I feel it needs to stop with the fans trying to speak for the players or make assumptions/conclusions based on incomplete information. Dijonai wanted to stay at Stanford and there was not a scholarship avaliable. Eventually a spot opened but by that time she had already made up her mind to transfer. We know all this from Dijonai herself.
The GoSWBB account shouldn't be speaking or speculating on Jana's situation or Jenna Brown for that matter. We don't know the reasons and unless Jana or Jenna want to speak on that matter, it's really not our business to make assumptions.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - BostonCard - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 11:23 AM)Card10Fan Wrote: The GoSWBB account shouldn't be speaking or speculating on Jana's situation or Jenna Brown for that matter. We don't know the reasons and unless Jana or Jenna want to speak on that matter, it's really not our business to make assumptions.
This!
BC
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - 81alum - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 02:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote:Agreed. So long as the players remain unpaid amateurs they should not be subjected to the kind of celebrity-gossip that has become endemic in our country. They should be left alone to be students and human beings, with their only public facing side being what they do on the court and the occasional sports-interview.(03-27-2023, 11:23 AM)Card10Fan Wrote: The GoSWBB account shouldn't be speaking or speculating on Jana's situation or Jenna Brown for that matter. We don't know the reasons and unless Jana or Jenna want to speak on that matter, it's really not our business to make assumptions.
This!
BC
I am not as sympathetic about respecting player privacy for those who choose to sell their names, images, and likenesses, and make money off of their celebrity status. I think at that point they have made a choice to cultivate a public persona, and it is understandable that others will want to know more about such a person. That does not really apply to Carrington, Brown, or JVG so far as I know, but the line between private amateurs and professional celebrities will become fuzzier and fuzzier.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - chimera - 03-27-2023
Carrington is a pro athlete in the WNBA. I agree that it is not fair to post assumptions about why a player transferred or how it has gone for her. I don't think trashing your former program is a great look either. Every program has players who are not happy with some aspect of the program. I mean, we have 9 zillion transfers, which says it all.
Stanford has had much fewer than other programs, which I am glad is the case. I'm not sure how I would feel if a big chunk of the team I rooted for transferred out every season and another batch transferred in. Kinda hard to get attached to players when you know many of them won't stick around. If I was a UA fan, for example, I would be cautious about being emotionally attached to the team. A lot of the fun of college sports for me has been watching players on our team and other teams develop, watching teams adjust as players improve and stars graduated after four years, all that stuff. Musical chairs is not very appealing to me.
The transfers and NIL bring college sports perilously close to pro sports but without the contracts and rules that restrict where pro players can go. I've been watching more and more of the WNBA. The league is light years better than it was in the early days. The level of basketball is much higher than college. Hate missed bunnies? Much fewer of those in the pros. If college basketball is just going to be quasi pro basketball but with insane player movement, I might as well just go ahead and watch the pros. The basketball is higher quality and player movement makes sense in that fans can follow their team, the roster, the salary cap, trades, etc., and enjoy that aspect rather than an unregulated mess like college transfers are now.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - WBB fan - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 03:33 PM)chimera Wrote: Carrington is a pro athlete in the WNBA. I agree that it is not fair to post assumptions about why a player transferred or how it has gone for her. I don't think trashing your former program is a great look either. Every program has players who are not happy with some aspect of the program. I mean, we have 9 zillion transfers, which says it all.
Stanford has had much fewer than other programs, which I am glad is the case. I'm not sure how I would feel if a big chunk of the team I rooted for transferred out every season and another batch transferred in. Kinda hard to get attached to players when you know many of them won't stick around. If I was a UA fan, for example, I would be cautious about being emotionally attached to the team. A lot of the fun of college sports for me has been watching players on our team and other teams develop, watching teams adjust as players improve and stars graduated after four years, all that stuff. Musical chairs is not very appealing to me.
The transfers and NIL bring college sports perilously close to pro sports but without the contracts and rules that restrict where pro players can go. I've been watching more and more of the WNBA. The league is light years better than it was in the early days. The level of basketball is much higher than college. Hate missed bunnies? Much fewer of those in the pros. If college basketball is just going to be quasi pro basketball but with insane player movement, I might as well just go ahead and watch the pros. The basketball is higher quality and player movement makes sense in that fans can follow their team, the roster, the salary cap, trades, etc., and enjoy that aspect rather than an unregulated mess like college transfers are now.
So well put. Hear, hear! One reason I've fallen in love with the Stanford WBB program is following the players over their years on the team, seeing how they develop. If the team becomes a revolving door, it will lose me as a fan.
RE: WBB: the NCAA tournament - OCcardinal - 03-27-2023
(03-27-2023, 03:03 PM)81alum Wrote: I am not as sympathetic about respecting player privacy for those who choose to sell their names, images, and likenesses, and make money off of their celebrity status. I think at that point they have made a choice to cultivate a public persona, and it is understandable that others will want to know more about such a person. That does not really apply to Carrington, Brown, or JVG so far as I know, but the line between private amateurs and professional celebrities will become fuzzier and fuzzier.
According to this website JVG has an NIL deal. Not a big one, but part of a large deal for Baylor athletes. Jana Van Gytenbeek - NIL Deals