Outside Topic SF Giants 2024 - Printable Version
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RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-08-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702077796' Wrote: 1702077796[/url]']
Multiple Dodger sources are claiming that the final three were Blue Jays, Dodgers and Angels. SF Giants supposedly didn't make the final three.
No matter how it plays out, either you finish first or tied with twenty-eight other teams for second. There is no second or third step on this podium.
triangle2 - triangle2 - 12-09-2023
Sigh. 10 years, $700M to the Dodgers.
Although, at that price, that contract looks like a dead weight on the back end.
To put this in context, that’s twice the size of Spottrac’s estimate for the TOTAL payroll that cheapskate Fisher is paying for the A’s ($35.67M).
RE: triangle2 - cardcrimson - 12-09-2023
(12-09-2023, 01:16 PM)triangle2 Wrote: Sigh. 10 years, $700M to the Dodgers.Wow. That's a lot of money, indeed. Way over what the expectations were, I think. Time to go get three or four high calibre players, if the Giants can.
Although, at that price, that contract looks like a dead weight on the back end.
RE: triangle2 - old spanish trail - 12-09-2023
(12-09-2023, 01:21 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:(12-09-2023, 01:16 PM)triangle2 Wrote: Sigh. 10 years, $700M to the Dodgers.Wow. That's a lot of money, indeed. Way over what the expectations were, I think. Time to go get three or four high calibre players, if the Giants can.
Although, at that price, that contract looks like a dead weight on the back end.
Wow, Wow, Wow! I'm ok with the Gyros not biting...if they had the chance. He's made a home in LA, and by all reports likes it there.
RE: triangle2 - cardcrimson - 12-09-2023
(12-09-2023, 01:33 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(12-09-2023, 01:21 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:Wow, Wow, Wow! I'm ok with the Gyros not biting...if they had the chance. He's made a home in LA, and by all reports likes it there.(12-09-2023, 01:16 PM)triangle2 Wrote: Sigh. 10 years, $700M to the Dodgers.Wow. That's a lot of money, indeed. Way over what the expectations were, I think. Time to go get three or four high calibre players, if the Giants can.
Although, at that price, that contract looks like a dead weight on the back end.
Maybe the Dodgers can add Trout and wallow in mediocrity for years like the Angels have. . . .
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-09-2023
Was there ever any doubt? ;)
Who the heck thought he would even consider signing with Toronto???
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-09-2023
If it was $550 mms., I would be furious. At $600 mms., I would have been on the fence. At $700 million...there's just no way. He's only going to be a hitter for next year, and the back half of that contract will be a complete waste. And there's no guarantee that his pitching arm is going to come back. I'd have been fine with it at $550m. But $700m? Worth 2x Arson Judge? Not a chance.
That is, of course, assuming we get Blake Snell, Cody Bellinger, Yoshinobu Yamamoto and Jung Hoo Lee...I think those four could be had for $700 million. Maybe Lourdes Gurriel.
I also think we should be looking at the trade market.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-09-2023
Reviewing the particulars of the contract will be an interesting exercise. Per reports of the deal, a significant portion of the contract will be deferred in order to permit the Dodgers to pursue other players without blowing the annual budget. LA could be paying Ohtani for a considerable number of years after he retires (Bobby Bonilla redux).
In the long run, a smart move by both parties….
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-10-2023
I read that more than half of it is deferred. And if it weakens the Dodgers long-term, that's a good thing. It's interesting...Ohtani is only going to be a DH next season, because of his surgery on his pitching arm. And you have to wonder (a) will he come back as the same pitcher, now that he's had multiple surgeries on that arm and (b) even if he does, the traditional Japanese pitching regimen is one start per week (26 in a season versus 33), which apparently was Ohtani's demand. He's never had more than 28 starts in a season, and had that just once...in the other two seasons, he had 23 starts...and just 12 starts combined in 2018 and 2020.
At any rate, time for the Giants to move on. I'd be plenty happy if they can land Bellinger, Lee, Snell and Yamamoto. And I hope they're very active on the trade markets. I think they need upgrades across the board. They have good-to-poor players at all levels...Webb is the only player I would put in the "great" category. Players in bold are currently signed for 2024, per Spotrac. Others are still under team control through arbitration:
Flores had a good year., OPS of .832..but he's going to be 32. No other player had an OPS over .790. Now they all blamed Kapler (of course), but the fact remains that their position players are either good (Flores, Yaz, Wade, Bailey) or mediocre (Davis, Estrada, Conforto, Haniger, Fitzgerald, Sabol) or poor (Meckler, Schmitt, Luciano, Matos, Ramos, Wisely, Bart, Villar). They don't have a single great position player...not one. Personally, I'd like to see them keep Flores, Yaz, Wade, Bailey...they have to keep Haniger and Conforto. I think Estrada has strong skills. Slater and Yaz make one good platooned corner outfielder. They need half-a-dozen really good to great pro position players. There isn't a single field position that couldn't use an upgrade.
Pitching is not much better. I think Webb is the Giants' sole great player and Cobb is a legit starter. After that...well, they have to keep DeSclafani and Stripling and roll the dice. Kyle Harrison will be another starter. They could use at least two great starters...Yamamoto and Snell, anyone?
I'm still not sold on Doval as a great reliever. I don't like his body language on the mound. He had 39 saves and finished 60 games. The rest of the relievers are fairly strong. I like both Rogers brothers. I like Beck and Jackson and Winn and Junis and Brebbia. I think Ryan Walker is excellent. I think Scott Alexander, when healthy, is strong.
San Francisco Giants 2024 Salaries & Payroll Table | Spotrac
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-10-2023
I will be very surprised if the Giants sign Yamamoto. The Yankees are putting a full court press on the guy and, as we know, the Yankees generally get what they want. I am not a big fan of Snell (Mr. Five Innings) and, thanks to Ohtani, Bellinger’s price tag just jumped to a level that is untenable for a guy with his background.
Quite frankly, this year is shaping up to be similar to last off-season. The Giants will spend a lot of money on a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 guys and hope for the best.
I am not optimistic………
RE: SF Giants 2024 - old spanish trail - 12-10-2023
And, now that they have Ohtani, the Dodgers are going hard after Yamamoto. They played for the same team, I think.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 12-10-2023
$700,000,000. 50 years from now it may be viewed as one of the great bargains in the history of sports.
It is not just what Ohtani brings to the field. As considerable as that is. It’s the revenue he brings. And perhaps more importantly, the Dodgers will now have a foothold, if not a stranglehold in the Pacific Rim. A baseball rich region that promises to get richer.
Ohtani will be every baseball crazed kid in Japan’s idol. And their MLB team will be the Dodgers.
As a Giants fan, I find this particularly galling. The Giants as an organization has failed miserably in the Pacific Rim for decades. This from an organization that had Masonori Murakami, the first Japanese MLB player. In a city whose favorite son, Lefty O’Doul, is the father of baseball in Japan.
The Giants were at one time THE team in Japan. After all, it’s the Yomomuri Giants. They squandered the opportunity to exploit that opportunity. Long before Ohtani.
They won’t get that opportunity again.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-10-2023
(12-10-2023, 11:47 AM)Giants Wrote: I will be very surprised if the Giants sign Yamamoto. The Yankees are putting a full court press on the guy and, as we know, the Yankees generally get what they want. I am not a big fan of Snell (Mr. Five Innings) and, thanks to Ohtani, Bellinger’s price tag just jumped to a level that is untenable for a guy with his background.
Quite frankly, this year is shaping up to be similar to last off-season. The Giants will spend a lot of money on a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 guys and hope for the best.
I am not optimistic………
I don't know that I'd say I am optimistic or not optimistic...but the Giants' attendance is in the dumper, 2.5 million last year, and 2.486 million the year before, that's about 17th in MLB, but their increase was only 26th in MLB. The Giants needed a superstar to inject excitement and increase their audience base. Not getting Ohtani (and we weren't close, we weren't in the final three) is not a killer for the season, but it does mean we need to hit on most of the other key free agents. The good news is that we have room under the luxury tax to do so...and we'll probably have to go over and overpay for Snell, Yamamoto, Lee and Bellinger. We have to do it, or hope that we hit on an unnatural level of success for our second and third year players.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-10-2023
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1702239125' Wrote: 1702239125[/url]']
$700,000,000. 50 years from now it may be viewed as one of the great bargains in the history of sports.
It is not just what Ohtani brings to the field. As considerable as that is. It’s the revenue he brings. And perhaps more importantly, the Dodgers will now have a foothold, if not a stranglehold in the Pacific Rim. A baseball rich region that promises to get richer.
Ohtani will be every baseball crazed kid in Japan’s idol. And their MLB team will be the Dodgers.
As a Giants fan, I find this particularly galling. The Giants as an organization has failed miserably in the Pacific Rim for decades. This from an organization that had Masonori Murakami, the first Japanese MLB player. In a city whose favorite son, Lefty O’Doul, is the father of baseball in Japan.
The Giants were at one time THE team in Japan. After all, it’s the Yomomuri Giants. They squandered the opportunity to exploit that opportunity. Long before Ohtani.
They won’t get that opportunity again.
Agree 100%. The revenue potential of the signing is astronomical. Also, the beauty of the deferrals is they should be so far down the road, they will look like pocket change under the circumstances that exist at that time.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-10-2023
I'd be very much interested in why Ohtani not only didn't sign with the Giants, but why the Giants weren't in his final three.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-10-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702246253' Wrote: 1702246253[/url]']
I'd be very much interested in why Ohtani not only didn't sign with the Giants, but why the Giants weren't in his final three.
Since the money offered by all of the “finalists” was probably close, I would guess that he felt LA would give him the best chance to lock up his legacy as a “winner”. Everything I read about him indicated that he wants to be remembered as a one of the all-time greats who was also a champion. LA is best situated to give him that opportunity (of all teams outside NYC).
RE: SF Giants 2024 - old spanish trail - 12-10-2023
(12-10-2023, 03:48 PM)Giants Wrote:Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702246253' Wrote: 1702246253[/url]']
I'd be very much interested in why Ohtani not only didn't sign with the Giants, but why the Giants weren't in his final three.
Since the money offered by all of the “finalists” was probably close, I would guess that he felt LA would give him the best chance to lock up his legacy as a “winner”. Everything I read about him indicated that he wants to be remembered as a one of the all-time greats who was also a champion. LA is best situated to give him that opportunity (of all teams outside NYC).
Agree, Giants.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-11-2023
Per the Athletic, Ohtani is deferring $68 million of his $70 million annual salary each year of the ten year deal. The deferral payments will commence in 2034 and continue through 2043.
This lowers the Dodgers CBT charge to roughly $46 million per year (including benefits, etc.) for 10 years.
Also, I would assume this will help him save a ton on his CA state tax bill (by moving out of state following the end of his playing career).
Note: it is estimated he currently makes about $50 million/year in endorsement money so he should be in pretty good financial shape until the deferred payments kick in.
—-
Updated to correct error in initial post.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-11-2023
(12-11-2023, 04:23 PM)Giants Wrote: Per the Athletic, Ohtani is deferring $68 million of his $70 million annual salary each year of the ten year deal. The deferral payments will commence in 2034 and continue through 2043.
This lowers the Dodgers CBT charge to roughly $46 million per year (including benefits, etc.) for 20 years.
Also, I would assume this will help him save a ton on his CA state tax bill (by moving out of state following the end of his playing career).
Note: it is estimated he currently makes about $50 million/year in endorsement money so he should be in pretty good financial shape until the deferred payments kick in.
I think you're right about that. Current law holds that, even if you "earn" the funds in one year but they are paid in another year, they aren't taxed until they are "constructively available", Franchise Tax Board publication 1031. Same basic idea as with pensions and retirement funds...you pay the tax when you have access to the money. Not sure if that's true if he's moved back to Japan, definitely true if he moves to another U. S. state.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - cardcrimson - 12-11-2023
(12-11-2023, 04:52 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-11-2023, 04:23 PM)Giants Wrote: Per the Athletic, Ohtani is deferring $68 million of his $70 million annual salary each year of the ten year deal. The deferral payments will commence in 2034 and continue through 2043.
This lowers the Dodgers CBT charge to roughly $46 million per year (including benefits, etc.) for 20 years.
Also, I would assume this will help him save a ton on his CA state tax bill (by moving out of state following the end of his playing career).
Note: it is estimated he currently makes about $50 million/year in endorsement money so he should be in pretty good financial shape until the deferred payments kick in.
I think you're right about that. Current law holds that, even if you "earn" the funds in one year but they are paid in another year, they aren't taxed until they are "constructively available", Franchise Tax Board publication 1031. Same basic idea as with pensions and retirement funds...you pay the tax when you have access to the money. Not sure if that's true if he's moved back to Japan, definitely true if he moves to another U. S. state.
Oh CA will find a way to tax him on his earnings in LA when ever they occur. His taxes alone would put a dent in the recently announced budget shortfall.