Outside Topic The Giants - Printable Version
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RE: The Giants - BostonCard - 07-28-2019
Giants win again, 7-6. That’s their seventh consecutive win by a single run. They’ve been out scored in their last three series, but still won each of them.
BC
RE: lex24 - Goose - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote: They can’t get much for Bum, Smith, Dyson and Watson? That I don’t agree with. Pitching sells.
Both Bum and Smith will be free agents. If you trade for them, you will have to sign them for next year. You can do that without a trade. If you want to "rent" them for two (hopefully three) months, you can. But, which team thinks it is just one of these guys away from the world series? I don't see one. Maybe somebody will make the trade if it is "cheap enough", but "cheap enough" doesn't help the Giants much. Nobody is going to give up a proven, young(ish) major league player unless they are really sold on the benefit, and I just don't see that happening. Class AA prospects, possibly, but that isn't necessarily a "good" deal for the Giants. Lots of risk there. Also, if they don't trade these guys, they can make them a qualifying offer and get a high draft pick in return. That may be almost as good as a prospect. There may be somebody out there who really wants those guys, but I doubt it.
Dyson and Watson are better trade prospects, but there is no need for teams to hurry there. Neither of them are the difference between also-ran and winning it all. Again, if the deal is "cheap" enough, maybe, but it isn't a "trade deadline" type transaction in my mind. A setup man isn't going to move anybody's meters.
RE: lex24 - Mick - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote: They can’t get much for Bum, Smith, Dyson and Watson? That I don’t agree with. Pitching sells.
The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend. The bigger issue is the starting pitching. Bum. But then... you have The Shark. Who has pitched fairly well, but how long will that last. Plus he’s a back end of the rotation guy. After that, three rookies.
The Mets have put Syndergaard on the block.
(07-28-2019, 07:03 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Giants win again, 7-6. That’s their seventh consecutive win by a single run. They’ve been out scored in their last three series, but still won each of them.
BC
They've won their last seven series in a row...Padres, Cubs, Mets, Rockies, Brewers, Cardinals and Padres again.
(07-28-2019, 07:40 PM)Goose Wrote: But, which team thinks it is just one of these guys away from the world series? I don't see one.
I wonder about that. In the NL, there are three teams tied for the last two playoff spots, and another four within 3.5 games of that last spot. The teams at the top have to play each other, and one of them will have to play the AL's best team.
In the AL, there are three teams fighting for the last playoff spot, four in front of them. That's 17 teams, slightly more than half, that need some help.
RE: lex24 - BostonCard - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 08:05 PM)Mick Wrote:(07-28-2019, 07:03 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Giants win again, 7-6. That’s their seventh consecutive win by a single run. They’ve been out scored in their last three series, but still won each of them.
BC
They've won their last seven series in a row...Padres, Cubs, Mets, Rockies, Brewers, Cardinals and Padres again.
I don’t think they were outscored in the first four of those series, though. I struggled with how to phrase it to emphasize that they’ve been outscored in three consecutive series, despite winning them.
BC
RE: lex24 - Goose - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 08:05 PM)Mick Wrote:These teams are all in basically the same position as the Giants. They are flawed teams that just maybe can sneak in to the playoffs. Having Bum or Smith would help them a bunch. However, given that they are flawed teams, what do they have to offer the Giants that would make a trade very attractive? If they have a good to great young major league player, they need to keep him to have a chance to make the playoffs. If they are flawed teams, are they going to give up even great prospects and mortgage their future? Maybe, but I doubt it.(07-28-2019, 07:40 PM)Goose Wrote: But, which team thinks it is just one of these guys away from the world series? I don't see one.
I wonder about that. In the NL, there are three teams tied for the last two playoff spots, and another four within 3.5 games of that last spot.
I think that our best bet would be a team that thinks it can get into the playoffs but needs a "push" to win it all. Atlanta and NY may be such teams. But what do they have to offer us that is compelling? AFAIK, nothing. I don't think we want a 30+ utility infielder bad enough to trade Bum. Again, we would want a young major league player. Who does Atlanta have that fills that bill? Do any of the AL teams think they need somebody? NY maybe, but only because money is not a big problem for them. But who do they give us?
RE: lex24 - Goose - 07-28-2019
(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote: The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend.You could be right. In the last 30 days, the Giants have six players (who actually play a lot) that are hitting over .300. One of them is Posey, who has hit .329 in the last 30 days. I must admit I hadn't noticed that level of improvement. Maybe he is "back"? Longoria hit .371, but in only 35 ABs. If he can come back soon and stay hot that will help a lot. Crawford is improved. He is hitting .260 in the last 30 days, lots better than the .230 before that. The key question is will this improved hitting continue? If it does, just maybe it is enough. Contrary to my perception, Pablo has only hit .234 in the last 30 days. He can't play every day. If Longoria isn't back soon, we aren't going to make it. Pablo has had a lot of important hits, but also lots of important Ks.
lex24 - lex24 - 07-28-2019
Mets traded for Stroman. Don’t know if that makes it more or less likely theybtrade Syndergaard. Wheeler will probably be traded.
(07-28-2019, 08:05 PM)Mick Wrote:(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote: They can’t get much for Bum, Smith, Dyson and Watson? That I don’t agree with. Pitching sells.
The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend. The bigger issue is the starting pitching. Bum. But then... you have The Shark. Who has pitched fairly well, but how long will that last. Plus he’s a back end of the rotation guy. After that, three rookies.
The Mets have put Syndergaard on the block.
(07-28-2019, 07:03 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Giants win again, 7-6. That’s their seventh consecutive win by a single run. They’ve been out scored in their last three series, but still won each of them.
BC
They've won their last seven series in a row...Padres, Cubs, Mets, Rockies, Brewers, Cardinals and Padres again.
(07-28-2019, 07:40 PM)Goose Wrote: But, which team thinks it is just one of these guys away from the world series? I don't see one.
I wonder about that. In the NL, there are three teams tied for the last two playoff spots, and another four within 3.5 games of that last spot. The teams at the top have to play each other, and one of them will have to play the AL's best team.
In the AL, there are three teams fighting for the last playoff spot, four in front of them. That's 17 teams, slightly more than half, that need some help.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-29-2019
There is a lot of pressure on contending teams to improve their weaknesses, not just to secure a division or playoff spot, but to put them over the top to win a World Series.
It is a fact that no acquisition guarantees anything, but just because you never know, doesn’t mean you don’t try improving your team. Moreover, trading for capable players sends a message to the players on a team that they are going for it. It’s a sellers market when it comes to adding quality pitching.
I don’t understand the Mets acquiring Stroman and wanting to move Syndergaard, but I believe the Mets are better than the Giants. Fangraphs actually picks the Mets to finish ahead of the Giants right now, maybe in part because the Giants have the toughest remaining schedule of all the NL wild card contenders.
No single one guy is going to put anyone over the top for sure, but contending teams with expectations have a lot of pressure on them to improve or at least make it look like they are trying. The sellers don’t have any obligations to sell. The buyers are the desperate parties in most cases and need to make assets worth selling. The Giants and D-Backs are both in intriguing positions, with trade assets and also being threats to wild card teams if they aren’t weakened. They need good offers to sort of beg out of contention.
RE: lex24 - Mick - 07-29-2019
(07-28-2019, 09:36 PM)Goose Wrote:(07-28-2019, 04:39 PM)lex24 Wrote: The team has hit pretty well since June. Frankly, I think they have enough hitting and bullpen to contend.You could be right. In the last 30 days, the Giants have six players (who actually play a lot) that are hitting over .300. One of them is Posey, who has hit .329 in the last 30 days. I must admit I hadn't noticed that level of improvement. Maybe he is "back"? Longoria hit .371, but in only 35 ABs. If he can come back soon and stay hot that will help a lot. Crawford is improved. He is hitting .260 in the last 30 days, lots better than the .230 before that. The key question is will this improved hitting continue? If it does, just maybe it is enough. Contrary to my perception, Pablo has only hit .234 in the last 30 days. He can't play every day. If Longoria isn't back soon, we aren't going to make it. Pablo has had a lot of important hits, but also lots of important Ks.
I heard either Kruk or Kuip attribute Sandoval's weaker hitting to the fact that for a stretch he was playing every day. He's really just a role player right now. BTW, the entire team is dressing like Sandoval for the trip to Philadelphia; e.g., velvet loafers, large gold chains, white trousers, multicoloredshirts. It's Panda day...
The Panda's OPS is .821. Also in the .800s are Solano, Yastrzemski and Vogt, Dickerson leads the team at 1.237 and #2 is Stanford's very own Austin Slater at .907. Not too shabby. Posey's creeping up to an OBP of .329 (.335 is the major league average). The only one who has really started to deteriorate is Pillar.
RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-29-2019
Pillar plays a great CF. Hr still delivers key hits. He plays every day.
Slater has misplayed some balls in RF, especially a couple down the line at home. Yaz has been a revelation. Plus he can motor as can his OF mates.
Belt and Panik are the millstones. Not much can be done with either. If Smith is traded for an infielder Panik could be DFA'd.
Vincent DFA'd last night.
Belt owed $34 million for 2020-1. All that for his defense. A disaster.
RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-30-2019
With Cubs vs Cardinals tonight and ATL ahead of the Nats 9-0, the Giants had a chance to pick up a game on 3 teams ahead of them with a win tonight at Philly. And Philly's starting pitcher, Smyly had an ERA of 7.69 going into tonight.
So Smyly so far has thrown shutout ball, allowing only 4 hits through the first 6 innings on just 86 pitches.
I'm posting this to jinx Smyly, because the Giants obviously need voodoo to win clutch games.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-30-2019
Smyly was released by Texas because he had an 8+ ERA and allowed 19 HRs in 51 IP. So of course the Giants are completely neutered by him.
RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-31-2019
(07-30-2019, 07:14 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Smyly was released by Texas because he had an 8+ ERA and allowed 19 HRs in 51 IP. So of course the Giants are completely neutered by him.
I was at the game last night, sixth row back of the Giants dugout. Surprising amount of Giants fans there. Calm and polite Phillies fans. Decent park, below-average food.
For the effect he had on Giants' hitters, the 7.69 ERA Smyly looked like Carl Hubbell. Giants couldn't get anything going until Belt. They really looked overmatched, as did Beede. He could have easily given up twice as many runs but for his defense. By the sixth inning, I thought that if Farhan were watching this, he would be on the phone to the other 29 GMs this morning, begging teams to take Giants players.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
Ya, the honeymoon is over. It was a nice little run the team made, but they have been doing it with mirrors, and their last six wins are by one run. It's simply not a contending team by any means.
The Cardinals, Cubs, and Nats are demonstrably better. The D-Backs, Brewers, and Mets are better. Fangraphs even has the Reds finishing ahead of the Giants after the Bauer acquisition.
It's time to back up to truck and put everything on the Giants up for sale today. That doesn't mean they will sell, the price needs to be acceptable, but they should make every effort to cash in their assets for younger prospects with more upside.
There isn't a single solitary guy above A ball or on the 40 man roster I would label untouchable. The only untouchables are at the A level and lower.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-31-2019
Quitters beware. We shall prevail
RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 09:18 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's time to back up to truck and put everything on the Giants up for sale today. That doesn't mean they will sell, the price needs to be acceptable, but they should make every effort to cash in their assets for younger prospects with more upside.
I agree, but not just because I think they have a very small chance to make the wild card. The Giants offense is so bad that it will require a significant set of changes. Many of the players they have would be fine on a team that hit well enough to tolerate the relatively poor hitting of said player. However, right now, almost all of the Giants players are in that category. Dickerson and Solano have too small a sample size to know. The rest are "average" to below average at best. Posey could be coming back to his previous standard, but hasn't done so yet. That makes it difficult to get an acceptable price for any of the players. It is like having a monopoly on factory seconds. It is worth something, but not much.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
If I was in charge, my MO would be to move any Double A prospect or above for a competent MLB Second Baseman, like Whit Merrifield. Then I would trade some of my MLB relievers for prospects.
If a team offered a compelling prospect for Bumgarner, I'd move him. But I question if ownership would allow him to be traded unless the price was more than anyone is willing to pay.
RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 09:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If a team offered a compelling prospect for Bumgarner, I'd move him. But I question if ownership would allow him to be traded unless the price was more than anyone is willing to pay.
I don't think anybody is going to offer a compelling prospect, or even a real good prospect, to "rent" Bum for a few months. If such a move was viewed as a "key" to winning it all, maybe, but as I have said before, what contender is in that situation, or even anything close to that situation?
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 10:16 AM)Goose Wrote:(07-31-2019, 09:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If a team offered a compelling prospect for Bumgarner, I'd move him. But I question if ownership would allow him to be traded unless the price was more than anyone is willing to pay.
I don't think anybody is going to offer a compelling prospect, or even a real good prospect, to "rent" Bum for a few months. If such a move was viewed as a "key" to winning it all, maybe, but as I have said before, what contender is in that situation, or even anything close to that situation?
The Yankees would absolutely trade for Bumgarner and give up a top prospect for him.
RE: The Giants - ATLcardinal - 07-31-2019
I love the Giants and am truly enjoying this run. Classic Giants baseball from the past decade, beating better teams, everybody contributing, win the close ones, unexpected heroes. Lots of talk now about holding pat or buying instead of selling, and giving Bochy one more run at it. I am sympathetic, partially because I love this run plus I think their record will be worse next year even if they have a better team because new manager will be a crap shoot.
With all that said, yesterday they started a 1B with a .188 average and a 3B with a .154 average in the heat of a playoff race; and are starting three rookie pitchers. It ain't gonna happen. I'm selling if I can get good enough value tonight. (caveat: no fire sale, team has earned that)