Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - Printable Version
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RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - teejers1 - 03-17-2022
(02-21-2022, 09:40 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I think I joined in the fall of 1999, my first year of medical school when a classmate and friend told me about this Stanford sports website he was helping to run. This while he was still in grad school, I think.
BC
(02-21-2022, 11:52 AM)BobK Wrote: The fax first then on line Dec 1998. Thanks to a current poster who said the on line is fun all these Drs and lawyers arguing about how they would coach the football team.
Lol, some things never change.
BC
And bringing the drift back . . .
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33529775/amid-protests-pennsylvania-swimmer-lia-thomas-becomes-first-known-transgender-athlete-win-division-national-championship
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - BostonCard - 03-17-2022
Congratulations to Thomas.
Ledecky’s record is safe; Thomas’ time was 9 seconds behind Ledecky’s.
BC
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - newguy - 03-17-2022
relieved that our alumna's record holds.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - teejers1 - 03-17-2022
(03-17-2022, 08:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Congratulations to Thomas.
Ledecky’s record is safe; Thomas’ time was 9 seconds behind Ledecky’s.
BC
Well, I'm sure Ledecky cares about that; I'm not sure the other competitors in the pool care as much about that. But whatever, a deceased horse can only be beaten so many times . . .
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - BostonCard - 03-17-2022
I only pointed it out because it was the subject of this thread. I don’t know whether Ledecky cares or not. I assume she knows her record will be broken someday, and I have no idea whether it would stick her craw more if the woman who did it were trans gendered than if she were cis gendered.
BC
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - DC 86 - 03-19-2022
At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - JustAnotherFan - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 08:46 AM)DC 86 Wrote: At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
Was this a signal of protest or was it just three young women who knew each other coming together for a photo? Yes, Brooke moved to the 3rd place platform for the photo, but Emma didn't move to her left to stand on the 1st place platform, and the third place swimmer didn't move at all. I seriously doubt that Brooke, of all people, based on her prior remarks, was trying to make a statement.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - teejers1 - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 10:01 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote: Was this a signal of protest or was it just three young women who knew each other coming together for a photo? Yes, Brooke moved to the 3rd place platform for the photo, but Emma didn't move to her left to stand on the 1st place platform, and the third place swimmer didn't move at all. I seriously doubt that Brooke, of all people, based on her prior remarks, was trying to make a statement.
I agree. Brooke was "honored" to finish off the podium. Good for her.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - DC 86 - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 10:01 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:(03-19-2022, 08:46 AM)DC 86 Wrote: At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
Was this a signal of protest or was it just three young women who knew each other coming together for a photo? Yes, Brooke moved to the 3rd place platform for the photo, but Emma didn't move to her left to stand on the 1st place platform, and the third place swimmer didn't move at all. I seriously doubt that Brooke, of all people, based on her prior remarks, was trying to make a statement.
Well, Lia Thomas was standing on the first place platform so I doubt that Emma Weyant would move there (to push her off?) It's hard to determine the meaning of the post-race photo but it's awkward looking and unusual. Especially given the boos that Thomas received it seems like a conscious choice to move away from her to take a photo without her, but that's just my interpretation.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - JustAnotherFan - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 11:09 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(03-19-2022, 10:01 AM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:(03-19-2022, 08:46 AM)DC 86 Wrote: At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
Was this a signal of protest or was it just three young women who knew each other coming together for a photo? Yes, Brooke moved to the 3rd place platform for the photo, but Emma didn't move to her left to stand on the 1st place platform, and the third place swimmer didn't move at all. I seriously doubt that Brooke, of all people, based on her prior remarks, was trying to make a statement.
Well, Lia Thomas was standing on the first place platform so I doubt that Emma Weyant would move there (to push her off?) It's hard to determine the meaning of the post-race photo but it's awkward looking and unusual. Especially given the boos that Thomas received it seems like a conscious choice to move away from her to take a photo without her, but that's just my interpretation.
I get that interpretation. I don't agree with it though. I think the photographer was shrewd in cutting off the rest of the placers (in the article I saw with that picture). FYI, I don't think that Brooke made a conscious choice to move away from the 5th place girl for the photo any more than she made a conscious choice to move toward Lia.
Sakibomb25 - Sakibomb25 - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 08:46 AM)DC 86 Wrote: At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
No protest straight from the horses’ mouth. Just three good friends wanting to take a picture with each other. Sad that these three athletes were unwillingly brought into this controversy.
https://swimswam.com/erica-sullivan-says-there-was-no-podium-protest-after-500-freestyle-at-ncaas/
RE: Sakibomb25 - DC 86 - 03-19-2022
(03-19-2022, 01:48 PM)Sakibomb25 Wrote:(03-19-2022, 08:46 AM)DC 86 Wrote: At the ceremony following the 500 Free (won by Lia Thomas), the second place finisher (Emma Weyant) moved to the third place podium away from Thomas and was joined by Stanford's Brooke Forde, who had finished fourth (but presumably was viewed as the legitimate third place finisher who should be on the podium).
No protest straight from the horses’ mouth. Just three good friends wanting to take a picture with each other. Sad that these three athletes were unwillingly brought into this controversy.
https://swimswam.com/erica-sullivan-says-there-was-no-podium-protest-after-500-freestyle-at-ncaas/
Fair enough, thanks. It's understandable that the picture has spread widely and apparently been misinterpreted, but that explanation is a reasonable one.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - oldalum - 04-21-2022
an interview with an exercise physiologist who has been involved in the trans athlete controversy; I find his thoughts on "natural advantage" and the irreconcilability of competition and inclusion to be well-reasoned.
interview
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - Genuine Realist - 04-22-2022
I do believe this apparently inconsequential issue is going to have enormous political effects.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - 82lsju - 06-19-2022
Quote:Fina, swimming's world governing body, has voted to stop transgender athletes from competing in women's elite races if they have gone through any part of the process of male puberty.
The new policy requires transgender competitors to have completed their transition by the age of 12 in order to be able to compete in women's competitions.
Fina will also aim to establish an 'open' category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different than their birth sex.
The policy was passed with 71% of the vote from 152 Fina members
https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/61853450?at_custom4=5FFA7C4C-EFE5-11EC-95E3-9FCC923C408C&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D
and
Quote:Cycling's governing body, the UCI, has toughened its rules on transgender eligibility by doubling the period of time before a rider transitioning from male to female can compete.
Previous regulations required riders to have had testosterone levels below five nanomoles per litre (nmol/L) for a 12-month period prior to competition.
The UCI has changed the permitted level to 2.5 nmol/L for a 24-month period.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/61832420
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - Genuine Realist - 06-19-2022
(06-19-2022, 08:41 AM)82lsju Wrote:This only makes common sense.Quote:Fina, swimming's world governing body, has voted to stop transgender athletes from competing in women's elite races if they have gone through any part of the process of male puberty.
The new policy requires transgender competitors to have completed their transition by the age of 12 in order to be able to compete in women's competitions.
Fina will also aim to establish an 'open' category at competitions for swimmers whose gender identity is different than their birth sex.
The policy was passed with 71% of the vote from 152 Fina members
https://www.bbc.com/sport/swimming/61853450?at_custom4=5FFA7C4C-EFE5-11EC-95E3-9FCC923C408C&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D
and
Quote:Cycling's governing body, the UCI, has toughened its rules on transgender eligibility by doubling the period of time before a rider transitioning from male to female can compete.
Previous regulations required riders to have had testosterone levels below five nanomoles per litre (nmol/L) for a 12-month period prior to competition.
The UCI has changed the permitted level to 2.5 nmol/L for a 24-month period.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/61832420
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - BostonCard - 04-06-2023
The administration has weighed in:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-administration-proposes-new-rules-for-transgender-athletes-303f9399?mod=djemwhatsnews
(may be behind a paywall)
Quote:Under the proposed regulation, schools wouldn’t be permitted to adopt “one-size-fits-all” policies that categorically ban transgender students from participating on teams consistent with their gender identity, federal officials said.
But schools would have the ability to develop team-eligibility criteria that ensure fairness in competition or prevent sports-related injury.
...
According to Education Department officials, the new rule would allow schools to adopt policies that limit transgender students’ participation in instances of “competitive high school and college athletic environments” so long as they promote “an important educational objective, such as fairness in competition.”
The rule has to go through the formal rule making process, including public comment.
BC
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - dabigv13 - 04-06-2023
The fact that the left and right have both been critical of the rule might mean it could actually be reasonable IMHO.
Also today, SCOTUS seems uninterested in wading into this issue at the moment.
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1165133771/trans-law-west-virginia-supreme-court
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - M T - 06-14-2024
https://apnews.com/article/swimming-transgender-rules-lia-thomas-8a626b5e7f7eafe5088b643c4d804c56
Quote:The Court of Arbitration for Sport panel of three judges dismissed Thomas’ request for arbitration with the World Aquatics governing body, in a ruling released Wednesday.
World Aquatics banned transgender women who have been through male puberty from competing in women’s races. It also created an “open” category for which transgender athletes would be eligible.
Thomas had asked the sports court in Switzerland to overturn the rules approved in 2022 that she said were invalid, unlawful and discriminatory.
RE: Ledecky's NCAA record at risk. Should it be? Too Controversial of a Topic? (merged) - cardbored - 06-18-2024
No, Ledecky's NCAA record should not be at risk to men, whether those men dress as women, are castrated or otherwise genitally mutilated, or attempt to modify their circulating hormone levels. None of those initiatives truly makes a man into a woman, and one must deny reality to believe otherwise.
We divide women and men into separate competitions for good reason. In mixed competitions, men would win almost all the time. In certain competitions, men would tend to inflict injuries upon the women, sometimes gruesomely so. It is unmanly and ungentlemanly for men to seek to defeat women in elite sports competitions. Certainly there is nothing wrong with men and women competing for recreational purposes.
As for RT, I check its website almost daily and read reports of interest there. Its news reporting regularly includes views critical of the Russian government, and is more faithful to standards of good journalism than the most prominent U.S. and U.K. outlets. Anyone who believes that the most prominent Western media are independent of state—and fascist corporate—control is delusional. That anyone would dismiss (or remove) a video merely because a Russian outlet produced it is childish.