Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct (/thread-23814.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct (/thread-23814.html)
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Mick - 02-23-2023
(02-23-2023, 06:04 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(02-23-2023, 03:25 PM)McKenwood Wrote:(02-23-2023, 09:11 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(02-22-2023, 11:44 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(02-22-2023, 10:48 PM)Mick Wrote: My point exactly. He's not from around here, and therefore does not fully grasp how crucial Stanford's D1 athletic program is to Stanford's overall brand.See Casper, Gerhard
BC
Persis Drell literally grew up on the Stanford campus and she seems to have trouble with this concept too.
As another Stanford faculty brat I apologize for Provost Drell. Both her management style and antipathy towards what differentiates (differentiated?) Stanford should have made her a non-starter for the Provost role. This result was forseen by those that knew her way back when.
Evidently not foreseen by the right people. This administration seems very, very research-oriented.
Perhaps they can research ways to produce perennial 10+ win football seasons...
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - 82lsju - 03-06-2023
another article from the Daily
https://stanforddaily.com/2023/03/06/mtl-knew-misconduct-allegations-independently-corroborated-in-private-correspondence-to-special-committee/?utm_content=Mar-06-2023%3Futm_campaign%3Ddigest&utm_content=Mar-06-2023
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - msqueri - 03-06-2023
Go Theo go, bring this jerk down!
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Mick - 03-06-2023
If MTL had a shred of honor, he would step down until successful completion of the inquiry. I don't know how he can look faculty members in the eye right now.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - dabigv13 - 03-06-2023
I noted earlier that it was interesting the small number of faculty who signed onto the letter of support for MTL. Now it seems clear most/all of those people who signed are friends of MTL or friends of friends.
Dissapointing BOT is still not decisive on this.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - TrumpCard - 03-07-2023
In the old days, I would have posted this with a dig at U$C, and a tiny tinge of worry that something like this could happen anywhere. Now, I’m clearly throwing a stone from a glass house:
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2023-03-06/book-of-animal-secrets-by-david-agus-usc-is-rife-with-plagiarism
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - OutsiderFan - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 09:21 AM)TrumpCard Wrote: In the old days, I would have posted this with a dig at U$C, and a tiny tinge of worry that something like this could happen anywhere. Now, I’m clearly throwing a stone from a glass house:
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2023-03-06/book-of-animal-secrets-by-david-agus-usc-is-rife-with-plagiarism
This is why the dude needs to be thrown out on his ass, pronto. How different from USC is Stanford, really?
Stanford's culture seems to be more about caring what others think about it than actually adhering to iron-clad values. Like so many institutions in the world that don't hold themselves accountable to high standards of truth and ethical behavior, Stanford has no moral high ground on which to stand on pretty much any issue now.
Theranos. FTX. MTL. Not exactly a credit to the brand, which is suppose to be....???
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - qwerty49 - 03-07-2023
I
(03-06-2023, 07:58 AM)82lsju Wrote: another article from the Daily
https://stanforddaily.com/2023/03/06/mtl-knew-misconduct-allegations-independently-corroborated-in-private-correspondence-to-special-committee/?utm_content=Mar-06-2023%3Futm_campaign%3Ddigest&utm_content=Mar-06-2023
Best comment below the article: “…He’s not the King of Stanford.”
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 03-07-2023
He should step aside while the investigation is ongoing, and the investigation has to be complete and thorough. However, a lot of what has been reported is "smoke", and I don't know that we have seen evidence that MTL is the source of the fire. Absolutely, if he has been the driving force for fraud, he should be fired not just as president of the university but as a faculty. But I think people are all too happy to see this person lose his job over allegations that have yet to be fully investigated.
BC
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - burger - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 12:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote: He should step aside while the investigation is ongoing, and the investigation has to be complete and thorough. However, a lot of what has been reported is "smoke", and I don't know that we have seen evidence that MTL is the source of the fire. Absolutely, if he has been the driving force for fraud, he should be fired not just as president of the university but as a faculty. But I think people are all too happy to see this person lose his job over allegations that have yet to be fully investigated.
BC
I seriously doubt there will ever be a smoking gun here--there rarely is in these sorts of cases. Plus people who might have that evidence or knowledge may be reluctant to speak out against someone as powerful as MTL. Who's gonna hire the lab tech who blew the whistle on a university president?
So while we're waiting for various investigations to play themselves out, Stanford's reputation continues to be damaged. The best thing is to just move on to a new president and forget this happened. I'm guessing that MTL's contract is written in such a way that he will not die in a poorhouse or anything close (and he probably doesn't need anything from Stanford regardless).
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - TrumpCard - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 11:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(03-07-2023, 09:21 AM)TrumpCard Wrote: In the old days, I would have posted this with a dig at U$C, and a tiny tinge of worry that something like this could happen anywhere. Now, I’m clearly throwing a stone from a glass house:
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2023-03-06/book-of-animal-secrets-by-david-agus-usc-is-rife-with-plagiarism
This is why the dude needs to be thrown out on his ass, pronto. How different from USC is Stanford, really?
Stanford's culture seems to be more about caring what others think about it than actually adhering to iron-clad values. Like so many institutions in the world that don't hold themselves accountable to high standards of truth and ethical behavior, Stanford has no moral high ground on which to stand on pretty much any issue now.
Theranos. FTX. MTL. Not exactly a credit to the brand, which is suppose to be....???
Let's not forget the Saloner scandal at GSB and Varsity Blues.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - fullmetal - 03-07-2023
And Lonsdale, Clinkle (Lucas Duplan), Tiger Woods, and the administrators who mishandled Katie Meyer's situation.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - dabigv13 - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 12:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote: He should step aside while the investigation is ongoing, and the investigation has to be complete and thorough. However, a lot of what has been reported is "smoke", and I don't know that we have seen evidence that MTL is the source of the fire. Absolutely, if he has been the driving force for fraud, he should be fired not just as president of the university but as a faculty. But I think people are all too happy to see this person lose his job over allegations that have yet to be fully investigated.
BC
He's not going to jail. He just doesn't get to be president of a world class research university.
Surely there is someone else out there who would be interested, who has the skills and experience for the job, who isn't defending themselves from a well deserved cloud of suspicion, who hasn't authored multiple papers with fraudulent data.
Has MTL's tenure been a distinguished one, worth suffering the reputational hit for his unique abilities and continued leadership?
If this was really nothing more than a nefarious postdoc who was wiley enough to fool MTL but not the rest of Genentech, I'm sure he'll find a fine job somewhere in industry. Maybe not Genentech though...
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 03-07-2023
Your position is fair, but there is a risk of rush to judgment as well. I think it would be a big setback to the people who work hard to uncover potential fraud if it resulted in the high profile dismissal of a still well-regarded scientist that later didn't pan out. I think you take the allegations seriously, and, in an ideal world, you have the leader step aside until everything is sorted out. But if all it takes to fire a university president is a cloud of suspicion, then you will live under constant fear that someone, somewhere, will find something in someone's past.
I've authored enough papers with enough people where if you put a gun to my head, I would not be able to tell you with 100% confidence that there is nothing problematic in any of them. The best I can offer is that I have not falsified any data, and that I did reasonable due diligence to make sure that everything added up. But part of working in a team of people with complimentary skills means that at some point, you have to trust that people with specialized skills that I don't possess are on the up and up. It's just a fact of life in complicated scientific projects these days.
BC
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - M T - 03-07-2023
In other times they called them witch hunts and lynch mobs.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - cardcrimson - 03-07-2023
Hyperbole aside, as this is a sports board, is MTL good for Stanford sports or not. If no, use this as an opportunity to nuke him.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - dabigv13 - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 10:40 PM)M T Wrote: In other times they called them witch hunts and lynch mobs.
Absurd to make that comparison. No one is lynching MTL. He should face the music for his past misconduct, which at worst means he gets a very comfortable retirement or likely a well remunerated position somewhere else.
What do you think is going on? A bunch (at least 6 I think) of his ex Genentech colleagues don't like the guy and conspired to lie to a Daily reporter?
BC I'm very sympathetic to your reasoning, though I have published much less than you I'm sure, but MTL was the direct supervisor to a postdoc who apparently fabricated his experiments, repeatedly. Experiments that were celebrated to great acclaim for some time. It's not just that he couldn't possibly know if a figure done by some lab across the country who he collaborated with was altered.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Jamesy - 03-07-2023
(03-07-2023, 11:02 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Hyperbole aside, as this is a sports board, is MTL good for Stanford sports or not. If no, use this as an opportunity to nuke him.
Not sure if this is a good thing or not, but he's also on the PAC-12 executive committee with the UW and WSU presidents.
(03-07-2023, 11:39 AM)qwerty49 Wrote: I(03-06-2023, 07:58 AM)82lsju Wrote: another article from the Daily
https://stanforddaily.com/2023/03/06/mtl-knew-misconduct-allegations-independently-corroborated-in-private-correspondence-to-special-committee/?utm_content=Mar-06-2023%3Futm_campaign%3Ddigest&utm_content=Mar-06-2023
Best comment below the article: “…He’s not the King of Stanford.”
Not just a random commenter either, that was written by Stanford Law Professor Michele Dauber.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - M T - 03-08-2023
Quote:The term lynch law refers to a self-constituted court that imposes sentence on a person without due process of law(britannica.com)
Some are calling to remove him from his position before an investigation is completed. You have clearly made up your mind about the outcome before that.
On December 5, I pointed out the (prior) PubPeer discussions on these issues. I don’t recall that others have ever mentioned them. Is all your information from the news media?
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Goose - 03-08-2023
As I have posted before, I am sympathetic to the idea that a PI can't necessarily "know" that one of his collaborators (whether "local" or "remote") is fabricating data. The Daily article does bring into question more than that however, at least as I understand it. The article says that others at Genentech were having trouble reproducing the result. This can happen for reasons other than fraud, but it does raise questions. The postdoc was asked to repeat the experiment. He allegedly did so and "reproduced" the result. Supposedly, the skeptics were suspicious. They then fiddled with his reagents so that a successful result would be impossible. They then asked for another repeat and the postdoc produced another "success". MTL was supposedly aware of all this, at least after the fact.
First, have I got this correct? Is that what is being reported by the Daily? If so, MTL really needed to retract the result. Not doing so would absolutely make him culpable. However, are those making the claims above willing to go "on the record" today? If not, are they credible at all? IMO once the accusation is at all public, you have to be willing to stand behind your accusation. Why would one go to all the trouble of fiddling with somebody else's reagents (a "not nice" thing to do) and yet be unwilling to stand up and say so at that time? I would imagine such a thing would have created a big "stir" even in a corporate setting. The idea that "the records may not be complete" may be true, but plenty of people would have known about it and NOBODY would have "forgot" it happened. This whole thing stinks in so many ways.
The first thing I want to know from an independent source: Is the data repeatable? Do we actually really know that (one way or the other), and if so, is their a citation? The second thing I want to hear is an "on the record" statement by a person with first hand knowledge of the subject that MTL knew it was not repeatable. The Daily seems to say such persons exist. Let them tell what they know on the record. If they will not, IMO they are not credible. At this point, MTL can't do anything to them.