Outside Topic SF Giants 2024 - Printable Version
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RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-12-2023
The Dodgers actually have a burgeoning deferred payment issue. It isn't just Ohtani. Here's the list:
Ohtani, $680 mms. to be paid in deferred money from 2034 to 2043.
Mookie Betts, $120 million in deferred money from 2033 to 2044.
Freddie Freeman, $57 million in deferred money from 2028 to 2040.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - cardcrimson - 12-12-2023
(12-10-2023, 02:00 PM)Giants Wrote: Agree 100%. The revenue potential of the signing is astronomical. Also, the beauty of the deferrals is they should be so far down the road, they will look like pocket change under the circumstances that exist at that time.
The deferrals are indeed a smart idea, though, as Mick pointed out, they have a lot of deferrals coming due in 10 years (hope we're still around to see the pain of that). Not so sure about the astronomical revenue potential. Where's it coming from? They already sell out most games and have a pretty lucrative TV deal. Raising ticket and beer prices?
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-12-2023
(12-10-2023, 11:47 AM)Giants Wrote: I will be very surprised if the Giants sign Yamamoto. The Yankees are putting a full court press on the guy and, as we know, the Yankees generally get what they want. I am not a big fan of Snell (Mr. Five Innings) and, thanks to Ohtani, Bellinger’s price tag just jumped to a level that is untenable for a guy with his background.
Quite frankly, this year is shaping up to be similar to last off-season. The Giants will spend a lot of money on a bunch of Tier 2 and 3 guys and hope for the best.
I am not optimistic………
I think you're right. Grant Brisbee said Snell is giving him "serious Barry Zito vibes when you look at the underlying metrics" and said metrics "are absolutely screaming at you that the ERA is a mirage."
Hate to say it, but I agree on Bellinger. He reworked his swing to cut down on both strikeouts (cut his strikeout rate in half) and power. His exit velocity is weak. Giants haven't had a 30 HR player since Bonds, and I don't think it would be Bellinger, though he'd give strong defense in CF and he's just 28.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-12-2023
cardcrimson dateline='[url=tel:1702400312' Wrote: 1702400312[/url]']
Giants dateline='[url=tel:1702242031' Wrote: 1702242031[/url]']
Agree 100%. The revenue potential of the signing is astronomical. Also, the beauty of the deferrals is they should be so far down the road, they will look like pocket change under the circumstances that exist at that time.
The deferrals are indeed a smart idea, though, as Mick pointed out, they have a lot of deferrals coming due in 10 years (hope we're still around to see the pain of that). Not so sure about the astronomical revenue potential. Where's it coming from? They already sell out most games and have a pretty lucrative TV deal. Raising ticket and beer prices?
From The Athletic…
Ohtani is, by far, the most marketable player in the game. He netted $40 million in endorsements in 2023, according to Sportico. The next highest was Trout, who earned $5 million.
It’s impossible to know exactly how much he’s worth to the teams that he plays for, but it is significant.
“It’ll pay for itself within six or seven years,” said one MLB evaluator. “He’s literally just a money factory. Even just on advertising alone. All the eyeballs from Japan. He’s like Michael Jordan to them. He’s like Taylor Swift.”
Ohtani’s presence instantly makes the team more internationally relevant. Every game will be broadcast live in Japan. And Japanese advertising made up a significant portion of the Angels’ stadium signage in recent years. His jersey was the most popular in the game. And fans traveled from half a world away to see him.
Simply put, the risk of this expensive contract is minimized by a guaranteed revenue stream that exists by having Ohtani on the roster.
—-
It’s not about beer sales in the park, it’s about monetizing his name throughout the Pacific Rim. The leadership of the Dodgers is the best in the game at being able to see the big picture. To quote Joe Lacob, they are “light years” ahead of the competition.
And, of course, I would imagine next time numbers are updated, the Dodgers will see a significant bump is the value of their franchise.
As a fan of their archrival, I have to tip my cap to them for developing a creative solution that puts the best player on their team, enables them to sign more top end talent and make tons of money all at the same time.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - magnus - 12-12-2023
Everyone's favorite baseball reporter has Jung Hoo Lee agreeing to a 6 year $113M deal with the Giants
https://x.com/JonHeyman/status/1734713898849259910?s=20
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-12-2023
Not gonna lie, pretty happy about this. Don't need Bellinger with "Grandson of the Wind" in CF. He's only 25. My guess is he bats leadoff. Giants scouted him heavily, and his former Heroes teammate Ha-Seong Kim broke out this past season.
SF Giants agree to $113 million deal with outfielder Jung-Hoo Lee
Highlights:
- 2022 KBO MVP
- .349 BA, .996 OPS, 23 HRs, 113 RBIs, 9.3 WAR
- Five straight Gold Gloves
- .342 career BA
- 6.5% strikeout rate.
- In the World Baseball Classic, Lee posted .429/.500/.571/1.071
Yaz/Slater platoon in RF, Conforto to LF.
I hear Yankees will land Yamamoto.
He's...enthusiastic.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1734715910001492412
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-12-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702426471' Wrote: 1702426471[/url]']
Not gonna lie, pretty happy about this. Don't need Bellinger with "Grandson of the Wind" in CF. He's only 25. My guess is he bats leadoff. Giants scouted him heavily, and his former Heroes teammate Ha-Seong Kim broke out this past season.
SF Giants agree to $113 million deal with outfielder Jung-Hoo Lee
Highlights:
- 2022 KBO MVP
- .349 BA, .996 OPS, 23 HRs, 113 RBIs, 9.3 WAR
- Five straight Gold Gloves
- .342 career BA
- 6.5% strikeout rate.
- In the World Baseball Classic, Lee posted .429/.500/.571/1.071
Yaz/Slater platoon in RF, Conforto to LF.
I hear Yankees will land Yamamoto.
He's...enthusiastic.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1734715910001492412
Is it ok to yawn quietly re: this signing? SF doesn’t need Tier 2 signees. The Giants need a guy who will light up the telephones in the ticket sales department. Lee is not that guy. Unfortunately, if Yamamoto signs elsewhere, there are no more Tier 1’s left on the table, assuming the signing of Lee precludes any further interest in Bellinger.
My hope now is trade an OF or two (Yaz, Slater, Haniger, Conforto???) for a SP.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - PAsportsfan - 12-12-2023
Looks like the Giants bid in the Ohtani sweepstakes came in.....you guessed it......second place!
Wow, the Giants....just missed out again....seems to happened every year.
Can't they come up with a new playbook???
HAHA HAHA
LOL
LOL
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39100773/giants-700m-offer-ohtani-identical-dodgers
RE: SF Giants 2024 - cardcrimson - 12-12-2023
(12-12-2023, 05:58 PM)Giants Wrote: My hope now is trade an OF or two
Too late. OF has been banned, though a trade may have been warranted.
Sincerely, an Old Crank. . . .
(12-12-2023, 08:21 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote: Looks like the Giants bid in the Ohtani sweepstakes came in.....you guessed it......second place!
Wow, the Giants....just missed out again....seems to happened every year.
Can't they come up with a new playbook???
HAHA HAHA
LOL
LOL
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39100773/giants-700m-offer-ohtani-identical-dodgers
Seriously. Why the LOL? The Giants offered more to Judge, and he wanted to be a Yankee. The Giants offered the same to Ohtani, and he wanted to be a Dodger. Whether Giants fans like it or not, those are the two most storied franchises in MLB, and in the two most important cities in the US. Can't blame the players. Can't blame the Giants for not offering stupid money to get them.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-12-2023
I think we need a starting pitcher...I don't think Yamamoto is in the cards, I think he's headed to the Yankees or the Dodgers -- the Dodgers also want Josh Hader, the top closer. I worry, ever so slightly, about Yamamoto's Japanese pitching schedule -- between 23 and 26 starts a year, versus 33 starts. For all the reasons enumerated elsewhere, I'd rather not get Blake Snell, though I think he'd thrive at Oracle Park...he has his fourth best ERA of any ballpark at Oracle.
I think the help is going through trade...and we have some decently tradeable players. We could also use upgrades at every field position and DH except catcher and CF, and maybe Flores at 1B.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - PAsportsfan - 12-12-2023
I find it comical the Giants ALWAYS just miss out on a top free agent. Everyone knows they don't want to spend the major bucks or they would have signed one by now.
Their playbook is to state they came in second for the FA. The one time they got "caught" and the free agent said yes they had to nix the signing with the phsyical cause (Correa).
Happens every year, over and over and over.
When Othani signed earlier in week with the dodgers I was gonna post...looks like the Giants just missed out. I didn't post it because the $ amount was a record high and fans would be like...sure spend $700 million Dodgers...good luck.
And now the giants come out stating they offered the same....
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-12-2023
It has never been about the money. SF has always been willing to spend. Recently, it was about legacy with one of the premier sports franchises in sports - Judge and the Yankees or making an indelible mark on the game in a geographical area in which he has become comfortable - Ohtani and the Dodgers.
I am disappointed but I have absolutely no complaints about how SF has handled the high stakes bidding process.
I really don’t care about second, third or thirtieth. Either you get the player or you don’t……
Aside to cardcrimson……. Well played, sir. Well played.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-13-2023
(12-12-2023, 09:27 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote: I find it comical the Giants ALWAYS just miss out on a top free agent. Everyone knows they don't want to spend the major bucks or they would have signed one by now.
Their playbook is to state they came in second for the FA. The one time they got "caught" and the free agent said yes they had to nix the signing with the phsyical cause (Correa).
Happens every year, over and over and over.
When Othani signed earlier in week with the dodgers I was gonna post...looks like the Giants just missed out. I didn't post it because the $ amount was a record high and fans would be like...sure spend $700 million Dodgers...good luck.
And now the giants come out stating they offered the same....
It's not about the money. The Giants are willing to spend. They offered the same as what the Dodgers did. Part of it is, as Giants said, winning tradition and opportunity to win the World Series. The Angels had Trout and Ohtani and never finished above .500, forget about the playoffs. Ohtani wanted to win. And I don't blame the Giants for not signing Correa to a very long term, very high dollar contract. My preference would have been to sign Dansby Swanson...gold glove winner, had hit 25 HRs, and would have been just 29 and was half the price of Correa at $179 mms.
The problem is in lesser part California, and in greater part San Francisco. California has the highest state tax rates in the land, so it's not as attractive for high earners. More to the point, San Francisco is, shall we say, an acquired taste. There's an article in The Athletic that quotes Buster Posey, who reflected on the unsuccessful courting of Judge, Correa, Harper, Lester, Stanton, etc.
Here's some specific reasons:
1) Oracle is a dead place for hitters. Which is why the Giants don't have too many problems attracting pitchers, but hitters don't want to come here. Bryce Harper went to Citizens Bank ballpark, where he cleans up. He does the worst at Oracle of any of the 18 ballparks where he's had at least 50 ABs (he's had 149 ABs at Oracle with an OPS of .646).
2) San Francisco scares wives, girlfriends and families with the filth, the crime, the drugs and the homelessness, and the players don't care for it much either. That's from Buster Posey (see link below). Same reason SF lost Suzuki (.842 OPS with Chicago).
So the Giants hugely overpaid for Jung Hoo Lee...as they needed to do. And they need, at minimum, a first-rate shortstop and another front line pitcher. BTW, I don't necessarily want Blake Snell, but I won't be unhappy if he comes here. He's a light-out pitcher at Oracle, with a 1.59 career ERA here, and a 0.00 ERA here in 2022 and 2023. Bring him on...
Shohei Ohtani turned down Giants’ $700M offer. Buster Posey reflects on team’s ‘free-agent slump’ - The Athletic
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-13-2023
Some interesting elements of Ohtani's contract have come to light:
- The Dodgers have to put $44 million annually into an escrow account to fund the deferrals. Therefore, the total value of Ohtani's contract when accounting for the deferrals is $437,830,563. That's...less than I would have thought, TBH.
- The Dodgers' annual charge toward their competitive balance payroll tax will still be about $46 million.
- He has a no-trade clause.
- He can opt out if owner Mark Walter or Pres/Baseball Ops Andrew Friedman are no longer with the team.
- He gets a suite at Dodger Stadium for all regular season and postseason games.
- He will donate up to 1% of his deal to the team's charitable foundation (standard free agent language)
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Giants - 12-13-2023
I do not believe the CA tax rate has anything to do with attracting free agents. Teams based in CA address the matter by offering a tax differential during the negotiating process. The Padres and Dodgers have proven that players will come to CA regardless of the tax rate.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-14-2023
Rumor is that the Giants are dropping from Yamamoto pursuit and focusing on Blake Snell. Which would be fine with me, he's brutally tough at Oracle.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-15-2023
Other rumor is that the Giants will miss out on Bellinger and give Rhys Hoskins a one year "prove it" contract...which would be in keeping with Farhan's penchant for signing formerly great players who were out for a year with injury...in Hoskins' case, an ACL which kept him out all of 2023. In 2022, the 6'4", 245 pound Hoskins hit 30 HRs. His OPS is generally in the .800 to .900 range, and he'll be 31 next season. I'd actually rather pay him $15 mms., than Bellinger $180 million.
Rhys Hoskins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Phillies' Former Slugger Predicted To Join Giants
RE: SF Giants 2024 - lex24 - 12-15-2023
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702568990' Wrote: 1702568990[/url]']
Rumor is that the Giants are dropping from Yamamoto pursuit and focusing on Blake Snell. Which would be fine with me, he's brutally tough at Oracle.
From whom? Rumors also had Ohtani signing with Blue Jays.
Mick dateline='[url=tel:1702665999' Wrote: 1702665999[/url]']
Other rumor is that the Giants will miss out on Bellinger and give Rhys Hoskins a one year "prove it" contract...which would be in keeping with Farhan's penchant for signing formerly great players who were out for a year with injury...in Hoskins' case, an ACL which kept him out all of 2023. In 2022, the 6'4", 245 pound Hoskins hit 30 HRs. His OPS is generally in the .800 to .900 range, and he'll be 31 next season. I'd actually rather pay him $15 mms., than Bellinger $180 million.
Rhys Hoskins Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Phillies' Former Slugger Predicted To Join Giants
Jim Bowden. I think he was right once. But can’t remember when.
RE: SF Giants 2024 - Mick - 12-15-2023
Susan Slusser reported that the Giants' rivals think the Giants have the inside track on Yamamoto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APz18yntrPM
Incidentally, Jung Hoon Lee faced off against Yamamoto in both the 2020 Olympics (played in 2021) and the 2019 Premier12 Classic. Lee went 2 for 4 with a double, a single and two strikeouts against Yamamoto.
https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/jung-hoo-lee-matchups-yoshinobu-yamamoto-giants-18554536.php
RE: SF Giants 2024 - cctop - 12-15-2023
(12-13-2023, 09:12 AM)Mick Wrote: 2) San Francisco scares wives, girlfriends and families with the filth, the crime, the drugs and the homelessness, and the players don't care for it much either. That's from Buster Posey (see link below). Same reason SF lost Suzuki (.842 OPS with Chicago).
This one was really curious to me.
The blocks around Oracle Park are nicer than a lot of other ballparks including Dodger Stadium.
And it's not like the ballplayers' wives and families live anywhere near the ballpark anyway.
To me this sounded like an excuse by Posey for losing the bidding war, unless he's saying he's fighting the perception of SF as portrayed in some national media, which would seem to be easy to combat by saying, "Come take a look and let me show you around".