Outside Topic The Giants - Printable Version
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RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
The Giants do what I wanted, actually even better than I thought they could, with just one trade:
Drew Pomeranz and Ray Black for Milwuakee's 3rd rated prospect, 2b Mauricio Dubon. He is hitting .297/.333 /475/.809 with 16 HRs in Triple A.
So the plan looks like it is to bring this guy up to play 2B in place of Panik. Farhan Zaidi doing EXACTLY what the Giants need, trading some MLB assets for high level prospects at position of need at MLB level.
RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 11:39 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Giants do what I wanted, actually even better than I thought they could, with just one trade:
Drew Pomeranz and Ray Black for Milwuakee's 3rd rated prospect, 2b Mauricio Dubon. He is hitting .297/.333 /475/.809 with 16 HRs in Triple A.
So the plan looks like it is to bring this guy up to play 2B in place of Panik. Farhan Zaidi doing EXACTLY what the Giants need, trading some MLB assets for high level prospects at position of need at MLB level.
Pomeranz has been reborn since they moved him to the bullpen, particularly against lefties. But they already have Smith and Watson, so he was expendable.
Black is the one guy they had in the system with high heat in the upper 90s. But he doesn’t have much else and has been kicking around for a few years apparently trying to improve his command.
On the surface, a good trade.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-31-2019
Black has been over 100 but you have to give up to get. Pom is a so what.
We shall see.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
And Melancon is gone to the Braves. No other details.
Update: Giants get Tristan Beck and journeyman MLB RH reliever Daniel Winkler.
So in this move, the Giants unload the Melancon contract, get a MLB bullpen arm, and a decent pitching prospect.
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 07-31-2019
Giants trade Sam Dyson to Reds for 1-time All Star, 29 yo 2B Scooter Gennett. He's struggled this year, coming off a groin injury.
Seems like a RH version of Joe Panik a little bit.
Clearly, the goal is to upgrade 2B depth at the top of the organization.
Madbum and Will Smith staying put, so Bob can rejoice.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-31-2019
Being a real fan. Lol. I rejoice. Getting Beck is brobdingnagian
Good bye melon head.
RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 01:41 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Giants trade Sam Dyson to Reds for 1-time All Star, 29 yo 2B Scooter Gennett. He's struggled this year, coming off a groin injury.
Seems like a RH version of Joe Panik a little bit.
Clearly, the goal is to upgrade 2B depth at the top of the organization.
Madbum and Will Smith staying put, so Bob can rejoice.
According to ESPN, Dyson went to Minnesota for two pitchers and an OF. Gennett from Cincy for a PTBNL.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27296219/giants-deal-pomeranz-brewers-dyson-twins
RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 10:38 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Yankees would absolutely trade for Bumgarner and give up a top prospect for him.
Well, I could say apparently not, as Bum is still here. However, the fact that the Yankees were on his contractual "no-trade" list probably made that a bit harder. Interestingly, the Yankees made NO major league level trades today.
I am neither happy nor unhappy with what the Giants did today. They gave up some guys that weren't helping them much (Black, Melancon), one that kind of was (Pomeranz) for some meh infielders. lt almost certainly makes no difference this year, and probably not next. They did dump Melancon's salary, I hope. I don't know that for sure however, they may be paying some of it. So, I am not moved either way. Trying some new guys probably isn't a bad idea, given the limited alternatives.
RE: The Giants - Phogge - 07-31-2019
Astros excited.. got Greinke. Greinke not. He's a very good hitter and now he's in the AL
RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 04:00 PM)Goose Wrote:(07-31-2019, 10:38 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Yankees would absolutely trade for Bumgarner and give up a top prospect for him.
Well, I could say apparently not, as Bum is still here. However, the fact that the Yankees were on his contractual "no-trade" list probably made that a bit harder. Interestingly, the Yankees made NO major league level trades today.
I am neither happy nor unhappy with what the Giants did today. They gave up some guys that weren't helping them much (Black, Melancon), one that kind of was (Pomeranz) for some meh infielders. lt almost certainly makes no difference this year, and probably not next. They did dump Melancon's salary, I hope. I don't know that for sure however, they may be paying some of it. So, I am not moved either way. Trying some new guys probably isn't a bad idea, given the limited alternatives.
Basically agree and I could argue they did not get significantly stronger unless the 2B prospect > Solano.
They gave up 3 MLB bullpen guys and one minor leaguer who at best were grading at a B-minus . However even a B- reliever can usually get through an inning unscathed.
No improvements to the offense, which in all honesty is running on smoke and mirrors, and will continue to be that way with the current lineup.
Updated edit: added a minor league OF from Tampa in exchange for a minor league LHP. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/mlb-trade-deadline-giants-acquire-rays-no-28-prospect-joe-mccarthy
RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 09:33 AM)Goose Wrote:(07-31-2019, 09:18 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's time to back up to truck and put everything on the Giants up for sale today. That doesn't mean they will sell, the price needs to be acceptable, but they should make every effort to cash in their assets for younger prospects with more upside.
I agree, but not just because I think they have a very small chance to make the wild card. The Giants offense is so bad that it will require a significant set of changes. Many of the players they have would be fine on a team that hit well enough to tolerate the relatively poor hitting of said player. However, right now, almost all of the Giants players are in that category. Dickerson and Solano have too small a sample size to know. The rest are "average" to below average at best. Posey could be coming back to his previous standard, but hasn't done so yet. That makes it difficult to get an acceptable price for any of the players. It is like having a monopoly on factory seconds. It is worth something, but not much.
Buster just hit an HR and Panda hit an HR and Kevin Pillar hit an HR to put the Giants ahead 5-0. Now back to the regularly scheduled grousing.
(07-31-2019, 11:46 AM)qwerty49 Wrote: Pomeranz has been reborn since they moved him to the bullpen, particularly against lefties. But they already have Smith and Watson, so he was expendable.
Pomeranz is doing great in the 'pen, going the Eckersley route. Always wondered if Tim Lincecum would have extended his career had he not insisted on being a starter.
(07-31-2019, 01:41 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Madbum and Will Smith staying put, so Bob can rejoice.
Gott, Watson and Moronta stayed put as well. And there was much rejoicing.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-31-2019
We are giddy when you have Eckersley and Pomeranz in the same sentence
I think we came out great. Now the big moves. Sign Smith and Bum.
Only down note is we still have Belt
RE: The Giants - Mick - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 03:38 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(07-31-2019, 01:41 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Giants trade Sam Dyson to Reds for 1-time All Star, 29 yo 2B Scooter Gennett. He's struggled this year, coming off a groin injury.
Seems like a RH version of Joe Panik a little bit.
Clearly, the goal is to upgrade 2B depth at the top of the organization.
Madbum and Will Smith staying put, so Bob can rejoice.
According to ESPN, Dyson went to Minnesota for two pitchers and an OF. Gennett from Cincy for a PTBNL.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27296219/giants-deal-pomeranz-brewers-dyson-twins
Pitchers look interesting. 19- and 20-year old RHPs. OF is 25 and emerged from a few years of injuries to hit 25 HRs in the minors last year. Seems to have a good arm and speed.
(07-31-2019, 01:41 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Giants trade Sam Dyson to Reds for 1-time All Star, 29 yo 2B Scooter Gennett. He's struggled this year, coming off a groin injury. Seems like a RH version of Joe Panik a little bit. Clearly, the goal is to upgrade 2B depth at the top of the organization.
Well...not quite. Panik's highlight years were 2014 and 2015. Three of the last four years were terrible. Gennett hit 27 and 23 HRs with 92 and 97 RBIs in the last two years, and he was an All-Star last year. And Gennett's injury was a groin injury, they generally heal. Panik has had multiple concussions with attendant (by his own admission) vision problems, purely apart from thumb and leg injuries. I'd say Gennett is perhaps a slightly better bet at this point.
(07-31-2019, 04:28 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Updated edit: added a minor league OF from Tampa in exchange for a minor league LHP. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/mlb-trade-deadline-giants-acquire-rays-no-28-prospect-joe-mccarthy
Supposedly, McCarthy was headed to the majors before his back problems.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 07-31-2019
Just read McCarthy’s back problems started in college. That’s not good. But then Dickerson missed two years.
RE: The Giants - Goose - 07-31-2019
(07-31-2019, 05:50 PM)Mick Wrote:(07-31-2019, 09:33 AM)Goose Wrote: I agree, but not just because I think they have a very small chance to make the wild card. The Giants offense is so bad that it will require a significant set of changes. Many of the players they have would be fine on a team that hit well enough to tolerate the relatively poor hitting of said player. However, right now, almost all of the Giants players are in that category. Dickerson and Solano have too small a sample size to know. The rest are "average" to below average at best. Posey could be coming back to his previous standard, but hasn't done so yet. That makes it difficult to get an acceptable price for any of the players. It is like having a monopoly on factory seconds. It is worth something, but not much.
Buster just hit an HR and Panda hit an HR and Kevin Pillar hit an HR to put the Giants ahead 5-0. Now back to the regularly scheduled grousing.
As I pointed out in a previous post, Posey has hit over .300 for the last 30 days. That is great, but it doesn't (yet) show he will continue. If he does, that makes a big difference. If Dickerson and Solano keep hitting too, we have something. Obviously, it is not for sure. Panda is not an everyday player. His home run tonight was great, but he still Ks too much to have a reasonable average. I fully believe the Giants will get more out of their anemic offense than anyone could believe. The players really want it, and as long as they believe, anything is possible. The main reason for optimism is that the teams they are competing with are not good either. If the three above-named can keep above .300 for the rest of the season, and we get Longoria back, we WILL get a wild card slot, IMHO. However, that is still lots of ifs. They have a tough schedule. It will be fun to watch.
Leftcoast - Leftcoast - 07-31-2019
Quote: It's simply not a contending team by any means. - Outsider Fan
Shhh .... Don’t tell the Giants. They’re too busy contending to notice.
(5-1 win over the Phillies today.)
RE: Leftcoast - Mick - 08-01-2019
(07-31-2019, 11:26 PM)Leftcoast Wrote:Quote: It's simply not a contending team by any means. - Outsider Fan
Shhh .... Don’t tell the Giants. They’re too busy contending to notice.
(5-1 win over the Phillies today.)
I think Farhan pulled off quite a trick. Two 2B prospects, at a position where we have demonstrated -- if not desperate -- need. An outfield prospect, a 1B/OF prospect supposedly headed to the majors before back problems. Two very young RHPs with promise. Offloaded at least some of Melancon's salary. Got rid of Black, who wasn't succeeding, Pomeranz (2-9) and Holland. And there are indications that Holland and Melancon were less than welcome in the clubhouse.
Over last 30 days, Posey, Crawford improving. Panik still stuck. Longoria, Dickerson, Vogt, Solante and Yasztremski all .900+ OPS. Belt, Pillar underperforming. Giants are now #10 in majors in WHIP and #12 in ERA. #15 in fielding, #26 in runs scored, still. Dickerson best OPS at 1.237, Vogt at .899, Stanford's own Slater at .894, then drop to Sandoval at .830.
And after last night's 5-1 win, the Giants are now two back of the wild card spot.
Nobody wants to play the San Francisco Giants...
RE: The Giants - OutsiderFan - 08-01-2019
Sorry for confusion about trade details. I posted the Dyson trade thinking it was for Scooter Gennett, because ESPN reported it all at once and didn't make the details clear...
When I say the Giants aren't contenders, what I mean is they aren't in any way, shape or form, a World Series, or even pennant contender. They could maybe eke out the second wild card, but I very much doubt it.
I'm pencilling in the Nats for one NL wild card spot. That leaves one for the Cubs/Cardinals/Brewers, Phillies, Giants, Mets, D-Backs, or Reds.
Counting today's games, each team has 18 series remaining.
The Cubs have the easiest remaining schedule and should be favored to win the Central.
The Giants have 13 series against teams with winning records and just 5 against ones with losing records. This is the toughest schedule of any of these wild card contenders.
Now, if Gennett comes in and gives the lineup a boost, and Belt can get hot in August as he typically has (August is his best hitting month over his career), maybe the team can stay within 3 games or so of the wild card through this month. If so, they could get a big shot in the arm should Cueto return in September.
RE: The Giants - qwerty49 - 08-01-2019
(08-01-2019, 05:38 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Sorry for confusion about trade details. I posted the Dyson trade thinking it was for Scooter Gennett, because ESPN reported it all at once and didn't make the details clear...
When I say the Giants aren't contenders, what I mean is they aren't in any way, shape or form, a World Series, or even pennant contender. They could maybe eke out the second wild card, but I very much doubt it.
I'm pencilling in the Nats for one NL wild card spot. That leaves one for the Cubs/Cardinals/Brewers, Phillies, Giants, Mets, D-Backs, or Reds.
Counting today's games, each team has 18 series remaining.
The Cubs have the easiest remaining schedule and should be favored to win the Central.
The Giants have 13 series against teams with winning records and just 5 against ones with losing records. This is the toughest schedule of any of these wild card contenders.
Now, if Gennett comes in and gives the lineup a boost, and Belt can get hot in August as he typically has (August is his best hitting month over his career), maybe the team can stay within 3 games or so of the wild card through this month. If so, they could get a big shot in the arm should Cueto return in September.
Keep an eye on the loss column. I think they need to be within 1 by the end of August to make a real run. If the margin is more than that, September will be, as Kuiper says, torture.
RE: The Giants - BobK - 08-01-2019
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2847702-mlb-trade-deadline-live-grades-for-all-the-biggest-trades
Here’s an opinion on the Giants trades. Two A’s and a B minus.
Good analysis I think. And we agree on the melonhead.