WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (AZ vs UCONN) - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - Spiny_Norman - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 06:06 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-29-2021, 06:05 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: SHE WAS FOULED!!!
The refs are going to call that zero times in one hundred.
BC
What if Missy is calling the game?
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - PVTree - 03-29-2021
I'm ok with her decision to attempt the bucket. There was still some time if she missed the shot. Baylor is not a 3-point shooting team so they're not used to kicking it out for a 3.
Zona about to advance to FF. Hopefully, that will make 2 P12 teams in the FF.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - 81alum - 03-29-2021
So Arizona (really McDonald with 33 points) defeats Indian and goes to the final 4 to face UConn.
I give them very little chance--but--McDonald is capable of heroics and so anything is possible I guess.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - Goose - 03-29-2021
Arizona got there. Now Stanford needs to do the same. It can be said Arizona had a somewhat easier path, but that is luck of the draw. If you expect to be the best you have to prove it by beating whoever is in front of you that day. I hope we can do so!
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - OutsiderFan - 03-29-2021
OK, here's my take on Foulgate...
Yes, it was a bad decision to take the ball into two defenders. However, basketball games are replete with bad offensive decisions being bailed out by defenders committing fouls. It's part of the game.
Not only was Carrington hit in the arm and face when shooting, one of the UConn defenders was moving into her with her legs. Proper defensive position is holding your ground and putting your arms up without initiating contact with the offensive player. You get the "principle of verticality," but not while moving into the offensive player.
It was a foul on two counts and both were not called - awful.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - BostonCard - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:23 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: OK, here's my take on Foulgate...
Yes, it was a bad decision to take the ball into two defenders. However, basketball games are replete with bad offensive decisions being bailed out by defenders committing fouls. It's part of the game.
Not only was Carrington hit in the arm and face when shooting, one of the UConn defenders was moving into her with her legs. Proper defensive position is holding your ground and putting your arms up without initiating contact with the offensive player. You get the "principle of verticality," but not while moving into the offensive player.
It was a foul on two counts and both were not called - awful.
Yes, congrats to Baylor who gets to comfort themselves with the mantra of "we were robbed" all the way home. In the meantime, foul or no foul, UConn gets to play Arizona in the final four. Nobody on this board disputes that it was a foul; it clearly was! But given a choice between righteous indignation over a foul not called or trying something else that doesn't rely on the ref calling a foul that could decide the game, you have to know not to put the game in the hands of the ref!
The refs were letting things go all game long! Why should the last play have been any different?
BC
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - OutsiderFan - 03-29-2021
Speaking of awful...
Never been a Kim Mulkey fan...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/spencernusbaum_/status/1376711347178717184[/tweet]
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - TheWildJacko - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 07:55 PM)81alum Wrote:(03-29-2021, 07:29 PM)CardinalWBBFan Wrote: Not tourney related, but Oregon State’s All Pac-12 freshman is leaving: https://twitter.com/goforthsasha/status/1376696982014689286?s=21Wow! Oregon State loses players more than most, doesn't it? Where is Goforth from?
She's from Arkansas.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - PVTree - 03-29-2021
OSU has some top recruits coming in. Do any of them play her position?
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - Goose - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Nobody on this board disputes that it was a foul; it clearly was! But given a choice between righteous indignation over a foul not called or trying something else that doesn't rely on the ref calling a foul that could decide the game, you have to know not to put the game in the hands of the ref!Another way to look at it is that the offensive player need not worry much about initiating contact. They aren't going to call that either. Go up and IN real strong and don't worry about getting a charging call. Make sure the ball goes down if you have to destroy the defenders to do it.
The refs were letting things go all game long! Why should the last play have been any different?
BC
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - PVTree - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:39 PM)Goose Wrote:(03-29-2021, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Nobody on this board disputes that it was a foul; it clearly was! But given a choice between righteous indignation over a foul not called or trying something else that doesn't rely on the ref calling a foul that could decide the game, you have to know not to put the game in the hands of the ref!Another way to look at it is that the offensive player need not worry much about initiating contact. They aren't going to call that either. Go up and IN real strong and don't worry about getting a charging call. Make sure the ball goes down if you have to destroy the defenders to do it.
The refs were letting things go all game long! Why should the last play have been any different?
BC
Unless you're playing Yukon... They will get the benefit of any doubt (questionable call).
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - 81alum - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:32 PM)TheWildJacko Wrote:Oh.....is she headed to replace Destiny Slocum I wonder? If so, Mike Neighbors seems to use OSU as a recruiting zone. Slocum I can kind of see--she was clearly shopping around her whole career. But is this becoming a pattern?(03-29-2021, 07:55 PM)81alum Wrote:(03-29-2021, 07:29 PM)CardinalWBBFan Wrote: Not tourney related, but Oregon State’s All Pac-12 freshman is leaving: https://twitter.com/goforthsasha/status/1376696982014689286?s=21Wow! Oregon State loses players more than most, doesn't it? Where is Goforth from?
She's from Arkansas.
But big loss for OSU.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - crackpot - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:10 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:(03-29-2021, 06:06 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-29-2021, 06:05 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: SHE WAS FOULED!!!
The refs are going to call that zero times in one hundred.
BC
What if Missy is calling the game?
She'd be looking at the monitor so long, tip-off of the Arizona game would be pushed back an hour.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - BobK - 03-29-2021
Very big loss for Oregon State. And surprising
McDonald’s play was just incredible. Talk about putting your team on your shoulders
The script was UConn wins refs knew that. Carrington was fouled by 2. But then she would have had to make both free throws. Would she?
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - 76lsjumb - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-29-2021, 08:23 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: OK, here's my take on Foulgate...
Yes, it was a bad decision to take the ball into two defenders. However, basketball games are replete with bad offensive decisions being bailed out by defenders committing fouls. It's part of the game.
Not only was Carrington hit in the arm and face when shooting, one of the UConn defenders was moving into her with her legs. Proper defensive position is holding your ground and putting your arms up without initiating contact with the offensive player. You get the "principle of verticality," but not while moving into the offensive player.
It was a foul on two counts and both were not called - awful.
Yes, congrats to Baylor who gets to comfort themselves with the mantra of "we were robbed" all the way home. In the meantime, foul or no foul, UConn gets to play Arizona in the final four. Nobody on this board disputes that it was a foul; it clearly was! But given a choice between righteous indignation over a foul not called or trying something else that doesn't rely on the ref calling a foul that could decide the game, you have to know not to put the game in the hands of the ref!
The refs were letting things go all game long! Why should the last play have been any different?
BC
I believe this is known as "victim-blaming"...
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - martyup - 03-29-2021
I can guarantee that if Brink was in on that play, it would have been called a foul. Heck, she could have been on the other side of the key and they would have whistled her.
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia...f=1&nofb=1]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FHaBQ5AlVT13uE%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - BostonCard - 03-29-2021
At the time it was 68-67 UConn, so Carrington could have made 1/2 to send the game to overtime unless UConn scored in the last 5 seconds.
BC
(03-29-2021, 08:49 PM)76lsjumb Wrote: I believe this is known as "victim-blaming"...
For goodness sakes, she lost a basketball game on a foul that wasn't called; she wasn't the victim of an unspeakable crime.
Moreover, this is part of the game. Everyone knows this. Why do you think that Tara spoke up about the hand checking? It had nothing to do with the game against Oklahoma State and everything to do with Louisville and our future opponents who might guard us tightly and for whom a foul call might give our guards a bit more room. Believe me, she wasn't telling Williams to keep doing what you are doing, the Sooners will get called for hand checking; she was telling Williams to watch out, the refs aren't calling hand checking so be careful out there. I would be surprised if Geno didn't tell his players to challenge all the Bears' shots aggressively; he's a hall of fame coach and he knows that unless it is blatant, it's not going to get called. Likewise, I would be shocked if Mulkey didn't tell her players to expect a lot of contact.
As long as human referees make judgment calls to decide whether something happened or not, it is a fact of life that the game won't be called perfectly. Sometimes a charge is called when it should have been a blocking foul; sometimes (or, most of the time), the refs will let a player palm the ball during a dribble, sometime the refs will swallow a whistle late in a high stakes tournament game. The best players know what they can and can't get away with when, and are good at going up to that line. That's as much a part of the game as being able to shoot from behind the arc or drive to the hoop. And the best players aren't going to rely on a ref bailing them out in the circumstances we just saw.
You can claim to be the victim, or you can go on to play in the final four.
BC
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - teejers1 - 03-29-2021
(03-29-2021, 08:59 PM)BostonCard Wrote: You can claim to be the victim, or you can go on to play in the final four.
Or, you can hope the refs don't make an egregiously bad non-call to deprive your team of a fair shot to play in the final four.
Good grief. Under your logic, the only "smart" shot was a jumper 3 feet + away from the nearest defender - meaning 22+ feet out - because anything within range of a foul/mugging would not be called. And Baylor can't shoot treys worth a damn, so maybe they should have just quit before even attempting a shot. And Outsider nailed exactly why it was a foul on two counts, making it a particularly bad non-call.
And btw, Baylor had a play called - Carrington posting up. (Which also, under your logic, was a ridiculous play call because the defender(s) could easily have mugged her and not worried about a whistle.). They could not get the ball to DC in the block so she came and got it, and at that point it was going to be DC putting one up, come hell or high water.
She forced it - no question (and I predicted as much at the timeout). But it still was an obvious foul and a hideous non-call by the refs that deprived Baylor of OT, at minimum. But you go on blaming Baylor, and DC in particular. And give the refs a pass.
I don't care for either Baylor or UConn, so the game outcome doesn't bother me one way or the other - aside from the refs terrible, game-impacting non-call. And I've always liked Carrington . . . but there was one thing that really bothered me in that game. On a Bruckeurs (sp?) drive to the rack, Dijonnai took a haymaker swing purportedly attempting to block the shot. I saw malice in that swing and it was unsettling (fortunately, she didn't connect - if she had, I think there's a decent shot DC would have been DQed). That was very unsportsmanlike and likely borne of frustration.
Last point: Marty, you need to re-read some of your posts before submitting. The comment about the diminutive Missouri State player pre-game was out-of-line (and she flat balled . . . and has for 4 years); and the hair comment on DC was also . . . misplaced, particularly in this day and age. There is a lot of hair flying in women's basketball . . . should they all be put in a bun for you?
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - CompSci87 - 03-29-2021
UConn's fan board seems to be down right now. Swamped with comments, I suppose.
The bad non-call was a sour note for the game to end on, but blaming Carrington or Mulkey for not trying something else is a bit much. It's not like they ran a James Harden play that relied on drawing a foul instead of trying to make a shot.
Like all super close games, it could have gone either way if just one or two fewer mistakes during the game by either a player or a ref had been made. That's how sports go; everybody is only human.
RE: WBB: NCAA TOURNEY (OTHER TEAMS) - BostonCard - 03-30-2021
(03-29-2021, 10:43 PM)teejers1 Wrote:(03-29-2021, 08:59 PM)BostonCard Wrote: You can claim to be the victim, or you can go on to play in the final four.
Or, you can hope the refs don't make an egregiously bad non-call to deprive your team of a fair shot to play in the final four.
Hope is not a strategy. Maybe a contested shot was the best that Baylor could do under the circumstances, but my guess is not; going up one on two or one on three is probably not a great bet even if she hadn't been fouled. If nothing else, the fact that she shot in the midst of a triple team meant that two of her teammates were likely open. And Goose had a good point earlier; knowing that refs are unlikely to call it either way, if you are going to go into the teeth of the defense, go strong to the hoop.
Compsci, I want to be clear that I am not blaming Carrington any more than if she had gotten a clean shot off and it just hadn't gone in. She played her heart out, and she almost willed Baylor to a win. That's the way the game goes; sometimes the ball goes through the hoop and you win, sometimes it clangs on the rim. Sometimes you draw contact and the refs call it; sometimes they swallow the whistle. But the thing I wanted to push back on is the idea that Carrington was a victim, and that the refs were some sorts of monsters that perpetrated this crime upon her and the Baylor team. It was a blown call, and a blown call that was both common and predictable, and counting on that foul being called (if that's what Baylor did) was a bad strategy.
BC