Assistant Coaches - Printable Version
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RE: Assistant Coaches - delewaresinglewing - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 12:48 PM)Mick Wrote:(01-06-2023, 12:18 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:(01-06-2023, 08:42 AM)Mick Wrote:(01-05-2023, 07:15 PM)BobK Wrote: Under Monty yes two players couldn’t get into Stanford did play in the Ivy League. At least one at Harvard
The Ivies can admit up to 35 football recruits a year and because they don't offer football scholarships (though they offer need-based aid similar to what Stanford offers) their rosters tend to be large -- 118 at Harvard, 123 at Princeton. They evaluate recruits based upon the Academic Index (AI), a three-part evaluation of SAT/ACT scores, SAT Subject scores (if the school requires them) and GPA/class rank or standing. Each element operates on a sliding scale from 20 to 80 points for a possible total maximum score of 240 points. So a 4.0 unweighted GPA/#1 class rank, 1600 on SAT and 800 on subject test would be a 240.
The average student AI is thought to be 220 at Harv/Yal/Princ, 216 at Dart/Brown/Pen and 210 at Colum/Cornell. The average AI of any team must be within one standard deviation (15 points) of the campus AI for that institution. Any recruited athlete has to have a minimum AI of 171 in order to be admitted to an Ivy (think 600 on the SAT). There have been hardship exceptions. Every athlete admitted with a low AI must be offset by an athlete with a high AI. Of the 30 football recruits, only 2-3 will be on the low end. The low is typically a 1220 SAT/27 ACT and top 25% class rank, while the high will be a 1460 SAT and top 5% class rank.
When my son and the other two recruits entered Princeton, their collective AI average was 224. It was high, in part, because the previous coach had gone overboard on recruiting lower AI players the prior year and balance was demanded. During that same year, Stanford recruited an All-American from my son's club whose AI would have been 189. But he was a truly exceptional player and Stanford plays at a substantially higher level than Princeton.
More information on the Ivy's AI here: What Athletes Need to Know About the Ivy League Academic Index - Do It Yourself College Rankings (diycollegerankings.com) and here: Ivy AI Final (mka.org)
Hmm, so it sounds like a strategy to balance things out and raise the average AI is to ask the top incoming students to be nominally on the football team. They don't have to actually play. Of course no one would ever really do that....... would they?
No, I don't believe they would. Admissions is very careful about who they allow to matriculate.
But I'll bite. Why don't you point out who, on the roster below, you think fits that description?
2022 Football Roster - Harvard University (gocrimson.com)
https://gocrimson.com/sports/football/roster/thor-griffith/25180
RE: Assistant Coaches - Mick - 01-07-2023
(01-06-2023, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: No, but I do wonder how many within those 35 possible admits a year are “steak eaters” with above average AIs and marginal football skills who enable the school to admit a player with a below-average AI but much higher football skills. For someone who might be, say, a half SD below the overall school’s average (so, a half SD above the required football average), that can be a good deal, as they might not get in otherwise.
BC
I think you're overthinking it, or maybe we're saying virtually the same thing. There's no need to recruit steak eaters of marginal talent. These are FCS schools, the former 1-AA, so by definition the talent is more 1-star than 4- and 5-star. There are probably 5x the number of academically qualified football players who can play at the FCS level than at the BCS level. You're talking about All-League players, versus All-State. Kyle Juszczyk, a 7x pro bowler who graduated from Harvard was probably the best player on Harvard's team. He had a 4.2 g.p.a. in high school and a 30 on the ACT (93rd percentile), equivalent to a 1400 on the SAT. Probably not too hard to find all-league players with those credentials.
RE: Assistant Coaches - SamuelMcF - 01-07-2023
(01-07-2023, 12:28 PM)Mick Wrote:(01-06-2023, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: No, but I do wonder how many within those 35 possible admits a year are “steak eaters” with above average AIs and marginal football skills who enable the school to admit a player with a below-average AI but much higher football skills. For someone who might be, say, a half SD below the overall school’s average (so, a half SD above the required football average), that can be a good deal, as they might not get in otherwise.
BC
I think you're overthinking it, or maybe we're saying virtually the same thing. There's no need to recruit steak eaters of marginal talent. These are FCS schools, the former 1-AA, so by definition the talent is more 1-star than 4- and 5-star. There are probably 5x the number of academically qualified football players who can play at the FCS level than at the BCS level. You're talking about All-League players, versus All-State. Kyle Juszczyk, a 7x pro bowler who graduated from Harvard was probably the best player on Harvard's team. He had a 4.2 g.p.a. in high school and a 30 on the ACT (93rd percentile), equivalent to a 1400 on the SAT. Probably not too hard to find all-league players with those credentials.
Sometimes you're talking about All-State players in non-marquee states too. For instance, incoming PWO Chip Allers was All-State in Oregon, a state that usually doesn't produce more than a handful of P5 recruits a year. Ditto incoming PWO Carter Davis from Idaho, which produces even fewer than Oregon does. Conversely, an All-League player from SoCal, Texas, or Georgia could very feasibly be a 4* recruit.
By the way, I believe preferred walk-ons ARE recruited, hence the term "preferred." They may count towards "offsetting" the rest of the recruits. Although I don't think this is the policy here - we've been talking about the Ivies for so long that I think we lost the plot.
RE: Assistant Coaches - Mick - 01-07-2023
(01-07-2023, 01:31 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:(01-07-2023, 12:28 PM)Mick Wrote:(01-06-2023, 08:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote: No, but I do wonder how many within those 35 possible admits a year are “steak eaters” with above average AIs and marginal football skills who enable the school to admit a player with a below-average AI but much higher football skills. For someone who might be, say, a half SD below the overall school’s average (so, a half SD above the required football average), that can be a good deal, as they might not get in otherwise.
BC
I think you're overthinking it, or maybe we're saying virtually the same thing. There's no need to recruit steak eaters of marginal talent. These are FCS schools, the former 1-AA, so by definition the talent is more 1-star than 4- and 5-star. There are probably 5x the number of academically qualified football players who can play at the FCS level than at the BCS level. You're talking about All-League players, versus All-State. Kyle Juszczyk, a 7x pro bowler who graduated from Harvard was probably the best player on Harvard's team. He had a 4.2 g.p.a. in high school and a 30 on the ACT (93rd percentile), equivalent to a 1400 on the SAT. Probably not too hard to find all-league players with those credentials.
Sometimes you're talking about All-State players in non-marquee states too. For instance, incoming PWO Chip Allers was All-State in Oregon, a state that usually doesn't produce more than a handful of P5 recruits a year. Ditto incoming PWO Carter Davis from Idaho, which produces even fewer than Oregon does. Conversely, an All-League player from SoCal, Texas, or Georgia could very feasibly be a 4* recruit.
By the way, I believe preferred walk-ons ARE recruited, hence the term "preferred." They may count towards "offsetting" the rest of the recruits. Although I don't think this is the policy here - we've been talking about the Ivies for so long that I think we lost the plot.
Because I had nothing better to do, here's the breakdown of Hahvahd's roster, and each player's highest level accolade in high school, by category:
All-America (in some form), 2%
All-Region (typically All New England), 6%
All-State (52%), meaning any pre- or post-season All-State nod, including HM
All-Section/District/County, (22%)
All-City (2%)
All-League (12%), all from major states (CA, IL, MA or PA)
No recognition (4%)
So...there you go. About what I'd expected.
RE: Assistant Coaches - old spanish trail - 01-07-2023
(01-04-2023, 10:03 PM)Goose Wrote:(01-04-2023, 07:53 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: I can vouch that this is true, especially on less often and in less volume. From direct observation.
Good to know! First hand is the best data on something like this.
Quote:I once again can vouch that Bloomgren was "just not putting in the effort." This is not an inference based on the results. It is a direct observation.
Ditto.
Quote:(The non-"mega whale" in 2017 was Drew Dalman, who by the way Bloomgren was very close to not offering.)That I knew. It was surprising given he was also a "legacy". I had heard his High School career wasn't stellar, but not offering him seemed hard to believe. Glad it didn't work out that way, though he did have a bit of a "rough" start.
Quote:There really are dozens of "plausibly Power Five" OL a year with very good GPAs, plenty with 4.0s. I know this because I have seen them with my own two eyes (and so have guys like Carberry, Heff, and OL GA Dorian Keller) on Twitter, and we usually offer a bunch of them. (And sometimes we don't, much to my chagrin.)
Not "maybe 10 guys, a dozen at most." Dozens.
OK, so where is the error in the OP numbers? Is it that there are more than 150 OL in the top 1K High School prospects? Assuming an even distribution of all positions there should be (on average) 1000 / 22 * 5 or 227 OL in that group. That is probably an over-estimate because specialists like kickers aren't included and other specializations probably reduce the number. If we say 227, that says 227 * 0.047 (2021) or 10.5 guys would (on average) be admitted to Stanford. Allow some "preference" for athletes and you get maybe double that. That still isn't "dozens".
It is true that being admissible isn't as restrictive as actually being admitted. It is also equally true that many guys who are admissible will not want to attend Stanford. These two factors complicate identifying possible candidates. Is it possible some of the "dozens" you are looking at are not in the top 1K? Seems that is a probable explanation. Since there are 65 "Power 5" schools and each starts 5 OL, that means there are 325 "starters" in P5 schools that have to be replaced every year (on average). With only 227 candidates, that pretty much says they don't all come from the top 1K high school guys I guess. Of course, one could say many of the 325 aren't "P5 Starter" quality, but that is another issue :-)
When you say there are "dozens" of "qualified" candidates, it makes it appear you say recruiting OL should be "easy". As I am sure you know, there are plenty of guys with a 4.0 grade point that can't get into Stanford. They have to have good test scores (at least in the past) and they have to have done/will do the AP work. They also have to want what Stanford offers. For some reason I think finding the "right" guys to play at Stanford is a bit harder than you make it sound. We do seem to have at least our share of "misses".
(01-04-2023, 07:45 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: Fwiw, Sarrell started at rt for four games for the Chargers when the starter went down this year. Watched as much as I could of those games. In the first, he was beaten two or three times for a sack or hurry. In the second game he improved, and by the fourth game I don't think he allowed a sack, maybe one hurry. He was fine on run blocking, getting up the field faster than the others.This is interesting in that run blocking always seemed to be a problem for him at Stanford. He virtually never played in a 3 point stance, always being very upright. For that reason he couldn't drive block very well. He also didn't seem to engage quickly and guys would run around him. Does he still play upright?
Agree re run block problem at Stanford. I think he was slightly more bent but can't vouch for it. One interesting thing is that he was using that quick step back in passing downs in the first game I saw thus giving up leverage and being rudely run over/around. By the fourth game that was no longer such a problem.
RE: Assistant Coaches - magnus - 02-21-2023
Ack, we lost one already.
Klayton heads to the Arizona Cardinals.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/20/report-cardinals-hire-klayton-adams-as-offensive-line-coach/
Oh, posted in the personnel thread.
RE: Assistant Coaches - PVTree - 02-21-2023
Hmmm...Chris Dalman yearning to get back to coaching? His wife already works at Stanford.
RE: Assistant Coaches - BobK - 02-21-2023
Kate is Dalman’s daughter
RE: Assistant Coaches - 82lsju - 02-21-2023
(02-21-2023, 02:41 AM)magnus Wrote: Ack, we lost one already.
Klayton heads to the Arizona Cardinals.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/02/20/report-cardinals-hire-klayton-adams-as-offensive-line-coach/
Oh, posted in the personnel thread.
appears to be his second time doing something similar
https://superwestsports.com/klayton-adams-backs-out-of-ol-job-at-asu-remains-with-colts/
RE: Assistant Coaches - StanfordMatt - 02-22-2023
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1628404114920030208?s=20[/tweet]
Coincidentally, the opening that Tavita may be stepping into in Washington could be connected to Drew Terrell leaving the Commanders to go to the Cardinals.
Edit: Sorry, I can't figure out how to embed the tweet but it says that Tavita may be heading to the Commanders.
RE: Assistant Coaches - terry - 02-22-2023
(02-22-2023, 11:26 AM)StanfordMatt Wrote: [url=https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1628404114920030208?s=20[/url]Here you go --
Coincidentally, the opening that Tavita may be stepping into in Washington could be connected to Drew Terrell leaving the Commanders to go to the Cardinals.
Edit: Sorry, I can't figure out how to embed the tweet but it says that Tavita may be heading to the Commanders.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1628404114920030208?s=20[/tweet]
RE: Assistant Coaches - Hurlburt88 - 02-22-2023
Could be great development. I'll be interested to see this unfold
RE: Assistant Coaches - winflop - 02-23-2023
YES PLEASE! It's failing up but whatever gets Pritchard off this staff is a positive development IMnsHO
RE: Assistant Coaches - StanfordMatt - 02-23-2023
Alamar is headed to Rice to be the STC for Bloomgren per Matt Zenitz.
RE: Assistant Coaches - 82lsju - 02-25-2023
Quote:Update: Washington is now working toward an agreement with Pritchard, likely as QB coach. Nothing final but he's been in the mix for a few days here.
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1629175512521121793
RE: Assistant Coaches - BobK - 02-27-2023
Possible OL coach
https://twitter.com/mzenitz/status/1630250530042953728?s=46&t=O-jH-bgMlReZpVckdV5NPw
More
https://nauathletics.com/news/2022/12/23/nau-football-adds-viane-talamaivao-its-offensive-line-coach.aspx
RE: Assistant Coaches - 82lsju - 02-27-2023
(02-27-2023, 10:50 AM)BobK Wrote: Possible OL coach
https://twitter.com/mzenitz/status/1630250530042953728?s=46&t=O-jH-bgMlReZpVckdV5NPw
More
https://nauathletics.com/news/2022/12/23/nau-football-adds-viane-talamaivao-its-offensive-line-coach.aspx
Quote:It’s been quite a productive offseason for former Oregon Ducks offensive assistant Viane Talamaivao.
After spending the 2022 season in Eugene working as a graduate assistant on the offensive line under Adrian Klemm, Talamaivao accepted the job as OL coach for Northern Arizona this offseason. However, on Monday it was reported by On3’s Matt Zenitz that Talamaivao will actually be taking the OL coaching job for the Stanford Cardinal instead.
https://duckswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/27/former-oregon-ga-lands-job-at-stanford-as-new-ol-coach/
RE: Assistant Coaches - BobK - 02-27-2023
Looks like co OL coaches with Netter
https://yalebulldogs.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/al-netter/44
RE: Assistant Coaches - StanfordMatt - 02-27-2023
(02-27-2023, 11:46 AM)BobK Wrote: Looks like co OL coaches with Netter
https://yalebulldogs.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/al-netter/44
Very interesting. If we hire 2 co-OL coaches to fill Klayton’s role it means we won’t be hiring an on-field replacement for Tavita. I presume TT will be the de facto HC/OC/QB along with an analyst helping with QBs.
RE: Assistant Coaches - BobK - 02-27-2023
Seems so about Taylor. Is they analyst on board ??