Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Printable Version
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RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - 82lsju - 07-18-2023
(05-01-2023, 07:24 AM)Mick Wrote:(05-01-2023, 07:20 AM)82lsju Wrote: Update from the "Special Committee" investigating the work done by and with Marc Tessier-Lavigne
TD:DR - they've been working really hard and they believe they will be "substantially complete" by mid-July 2023.
Anyone else not surprised that they plan to finish over summer break?
Quote:"Because reviews of scientific and academic conduct are typically very lengthy, the Special Committee of the Board did not set an arbitrary deadline for the Scientific Panel to conclude its important work. However, given the resources devoted to this matter and the Scientific Panel’s progress to date, the Special Committee of the Board believes the Scientific Panel’s work will be substantially complete by mid-July of this year. Kirkland & Ellis will then share the results of its review and the Scientific Panel’s evaluation with the Special Committee of the Board and Stanford’s Board of Trustees, which will ultimately be responsible for communicating with the broader Stanford community."
https://boardoftrustees.stanford.edu/special-committee/#2023-04-30
My guess is a terse press release late on Friday afternoon, July 21 or July 28, and the contact person will be on vacation for a week afterward.
only a few days away.....
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - newguy - 07-19-2023
(07-18-2023, 02:51 PM)82lsju Wrote:(05-01-2023, 07:24 AM)Mick Wrote:(05-01-2023, 07:20 AM)82lsju Wrote: Update from the "Special Committee" investigating the work done by and with Marc Tessier-Lavigne
TD:DR - they've been working really hard and they believe they will be "substantially complete" by mid-July 2023.
Anyone else not surprised that they plan to finish over summer break?
Quote:"Because reviews of scientific and academic conduct are typically very lengthy, the Special Committee of the Board did not set an arbitrary deadline for the Scientific Panel to conclude its important work. However, given the resources devoted to this matter and the Scientific Panel’s progress to date, the Special Committee of the Board believes the Scientific Panel’s work will be substantially complete by mid-July of this year. Kirkland & Ellis will then share the results of its review and the Scientific Panel’s evaluation with the Special Committee of the Board and Stanford’s Board of Trustees, which will ultimately be responsible for communicating with the broader Stanford community."
https://boardoftrustees.stanford.edu/special-committee/#2023-04-30
My guess is a terse press release late on Friday afternoon, July 21 or July 28, and the contact person will be on vacation for a week afterward.
only a few days away.....
this post was quite prescient.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 09-26-2024
https://www.science.org/content/article/research-misconduct-finding-neuroscientist-eliezer-masliah-papers-under-suspicion
Another day, another big name Alzheimer’s researcher accused of scientific fraud.
The irony is that for the first time the FDA has approved drugs that slow down the progression of Alzheimer’s by clearing beta amyloid from the brain.
BC
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - martyup - 09-26-2024
Money corrupts. Big Pharma uses money to get the scientists to develop the drugs that they can peddle to gullible consumers using catchy jingles. Big Pharma uses money to coerce doctors to prescribe these drugs. Effectiveness is a dirty word to Big Pharma.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - TrumpCard - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 01:29 PM)martyup Wrote: Money corrupts. Big Pharma uses money to get the scientists to develop the drugs that they can peddle to gullible consumers using catchy jingles. Big Pharma uses money to coerce doctors to prescribe these drugs. Effectiveness is a dirty word to Big Pharma.
I have family members who survived cancer thanks to Big Pharma and other family members whose lives have improved dramatically thanks to Big Pharma. I'm sure there's corruption in every industry, but Big Pharma is in good standing with me.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Mick - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 01:59 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:(09-26-2024, 01:29 PM)martyup Wrote: Money corrupts. Big Pharma uses money to get the scientists to develop the drugs that they can peddle to gullible consumers using catchy jingles. Big Pharma uses money to coerce doctors to prescribe these drugs. Effectiveness is a dirty word to Big Pharma.
I have family members who survived cancer thanks to Big Pharma and other family members whose lives have improved dramatically thanks to Big Pharma. I'm sure there's corruption in every industry, but Big Pharma is in good standing with me.
I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.
Oh.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - jacket3ree - 09-26-2024
I received a double shot of flu and covid vaccines yesterday. One in each arm over lunch between Zoom meetings. I signed up for a quad shot with RSV and pneumonia, but the pharmacist very sweetly told me that I may be experienced but I'm not old enough to need the other two. I like her. (I think she's getting directions from the CDC.) All free and right next to the Chick fil A on North First. If it is just coincidence that I don't get sick, fine by me.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - 82lsju - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 07:24 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: I received a double shot of flu and covid vaccines yesterday. One in each arm over lunch between Zoom meetings. I signed up for a quad shot with RSV and pneumonia, but the pharmacist very sweetly told me that I may be experienced but I'm not old enough to need the other two. I like her. (I think she's getting directions from the CDC.) All free and right next to the Chick fil A on North First. If it is just coincidence that I don't get sick, fine by me.
got my flu shot and COVID booster (went Novavax this time) about a week ago, no problems other then some injection site soreness (got both in the same arm), did RSV last year so they tell me no need this year, and not old enough to get the pneumonia shot
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Goose - 09-26-2024
(09-26-2024, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote: I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.He could have at least argued that the very bad case of the flu you had generated enough immunity that even with the yearly mutations you never got sick :-).
Oh.
I had a somewhat similar experience but with different parameters. I never got a flu shot or had the flu from my early twenties until I was 43. I then got a case of the flu that put me in bed for four straight days. For me, that was unheard of. I subsequently never had the flu or a flu shot until I turned 68. At that point I decided to start getting flu shots because so many people were nagging me to do so. Still haven't had the flu. What does this prove? Nothing. An N of 1 under particular unique circumstances is perhaps mildly interesting but means nothing for the general case.
FWIW if you keep up on your COVID vaccinations you will be "offered" a flu shot in any case. Might as well take it.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Mick - 09-27-2024
(09-26-2024, 08:02 PM)Goose Wrote:(09-26-2024, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote: I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.He could have at least argued that the very bad case of the flu you had generated enough immunity that even with the yearly mutations you never got sick :-).
Oh.
I had a somewhat similar experience but with different parameters. I never got a flu shot or had the flu from my early twenties until I was 43. I then got a case of the flu that put me in bed for four straight days. For me, that was unheard of. I subsequently never had the flu or a flu shot until I turned 68. At that point I decided to start getting flu shots because so many people were nagging me to do so. Still haven't had the flu. What does this prove? Nothing. An N of 1 under particular unique circumstances is perhaps mildly interesting but means nothing for the general case.
FWIW if you keep up on your COVID vaccinations you will be "offered" a flu shot in any case. Might as well take it.
Got 'em both at the same time like jacket3ree and 82lsju, except I had them both in the same shoulder (why have both shoulders sore?) and I stayed with Pfizer.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 09-27-2024
(09-26-2024, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote: I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.
Oh.
I am pro vaccine, but your neighbor is only mostly wrong. Every year, about 10% of the US population (5% on a good year, 20% on a bad year) catch the flu (influenza), and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine varies, but on average it's about 50% (so it would cut your risk from about 10% to about 5%, though some years it's much better than that and some it's not a good match for the circulating virus).
Taking the midpoint of each, the chances of not ever getting the flu if you've been vaccinated for 31 consecutive years is about 40%, so you have had some fortune smiling on you. The chances of never catching the flu if you had never been vaccinated would have been about 7%, so while unlikely that you wouldn't have gotten the flu had you not been vaccinated, it is not impossible.
Vaccines are a wonderful thing. We've stamped out some really awful diseases (like smallpox) and nearly done so for a number of others thanks to vaccination. The flu kills between 20,000 and 100,000 Americans each year and the benefits of the vaccine vastly exceed the negatives. COVID is still killing thousands of people. Even if you don't have risk factors that put you at high risk of complications, why wouldn't you want to cut your chances of feeling miserable for a couple days in half.
BC
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - TrumpCard - 09-27-2024
(09-27-2024, 09:46 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(09-26-2024, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote: I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.
Oh.
I am pro vaccine, but your neighbor is only mostly wrong. Every year, about 10% of the US population (5% on a good year, 20% on a bad year) catch the flu (influenza), and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine varies, but on average it's about 50% (so it would cut your risk from about 10% to about 5%, though some years it's much better than that and some it's not a good match for the circulating virus).
Taking the midpoint of each, the chances of not ever getting the flu if you've been vaccinated for 31 consecutive years is about 40%, so you have had some fortune smiling on you. The chances of never catching the flu if you had never been vaccinated would have been about 7%, so while unlikely that you wouldn't have gotten the flu had you not been vaccinated, it is not impossible.
Vaccines are a wonderful thing. We've stamped out some really awful diseases (like smallpox) and nearly done so for a number of others thanks to vaccination. The flu kills between 20,000 and 100,000 Americans each year and the benefits of the vaccine vastly exceed the benefits. COVID is still killing thousands of people. Even if you don't have risk factors that put you at high risk of complications, why wouldn't you want to cut your chances of feeling miserable for a couple days in half.
BC
We have a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. People take that to mean that vaccines cause injuries and other adverse events, and people are not good at weighing those risks against the benefits you mentioned.
Edit:
Taking it a step further, many people in the U.S. don't seem to be good at taking care of their health. People don't take their medication as prescribed or don't fill prescriptions at all:
https://www.aamc.org/news/why-don-t-patients-follow-their-doctors-advice#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20CDC%2C%2020,are%20not%20taken%20as%20prescribed.
That's leaving aside things that take more effort like maintaining a healthy diet and exercising regularly.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Mick - 09-27-2024
(09-27-2024, 10:17 AM)TrumpCard Wrote:(09-27-2024, 09:46 AM)BostonCard Wrote:(09-26-2024, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote: I never had a flu shot in my 20s, and then, in 1992, I was laid up for 10 days with the flu. I've had a flu shot every year since, and have never had the flu. I mentioned this to an anti-Big Pharma neighbor of mine, and he informed me that it was 31 consecutive coincidences.
Oh.
I am pro vaccine, but your neighbor is only mostly wrong. Every year, about 10% of the US population (5% on a good year, 20% on a bad year) catch the flu (influenza), and the effectiveness of the flu vaccine varies, but on average it's about 50% (so it would cut your risk from about 10% to about 5%, though some years it's much better than that and some it's not a good match for the circulating virus).
Taking the midpoint of each, the chances of not ever getting the flu if you've been vaccinated for 31 consecutive years is about 40%, so you have had some fortune smiling on you. The chances of never catching the flu if you had never been vaccinated would have been about 7%, so while unlikely that you wouldn't have gotten the flu had you not been vaccinated, it is not impossible.
Vaccines are a wonderful thing. We've stamped out some really awful diseases (like smallpox) and nearly done so for a number of others thanks to vaccination. The flu kills between 20,000 and 100,000 Americans each year and the benefits of the vaccine vastly exceed the benefits. COVID is still killing thousands of people. Even if you don't have risk factors that put you at high risk of complications, why wouldn't you want to cut your chances of feeling miserable for a couple days in half.
BC
We have a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. People take that to mean that vaccines cause injuries and other adverse events, and people are not good at weighing those risks against the benefits you mentioned.
Edit:
Taking it a step further, many people in the U.S. don't seem to be good at taking care of their health. People don't take their medication as prescribed or don't fill prescriptions at all:
https://www.aamc.org/news/why-don-t-patients-follow-their-doctors-advice#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20CDC%2C%2020,are%20not%20taken%20as%20prescribed.
That's leaving aside things that take more effort like maintaining a healthy diet and exercising regularly.
Apropos of nothing...fast food revenue barely took a dip during COVID. I'm going out on a limb to say that Americans didn't learn our collective lessons:
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - TrumpCard - 09-27-2024
Yeah, a little thread drift. The point is that I'm still good with Big Pharma because there are lots of medications out there that save or improve lives. I'm grateful for all the folks who devote their careers to medical research. It's unfortunate that some people in the field choose to fudge results, but that doesn't ruin the entire endeavor of trying to find medications that make our lives better. MTL still has done a lot more good in his life than most people can ever hope to accomplish, and that's despite losing his position at Stanford's helm under unfortunate circumstances.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 09-27-2024
(09-27-2024, 10:17 AM)TrumpCard Wrote: We have a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and a Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. People take that to mean that vaccines cause injuries and other adverse events, and people are not good at weighing those risks against the benefits you mentioned.
Also not entirely wrong. Vaccines do rarely cause adverse events; there's a reason that when you get the flu shot you are asked whether you have ever had Guillan-Barre syndrome (a rare neurological condition that can occasionally be triggered by a flu vaccine). However, these events are very rare, and the risk of dying from the flu is much higher than the risk of getting GBS from a flu vaccine. As you mentioned, people are not good at weighing those risks. I also think there is an element of fatalism involved for some people. If they get vaccinated and get sick from it, it is easy to attribute the problem to the vaccine; on the other hand, if they get very ill from influenza, it's an Act of God; people are much less likely to attribute that to failure to vaccinate. I'm not saying that thinking is entirely rational, but it is surprisingly common.
BC
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - oldalum - 09-27-2024
I remember when it was accepted dogma that flu vaccine caused G-B syndrome, until 2 studies were published in the NEJM that showed the rate in those vaccinated was equal to the background rate in the general population. If flu vaccine causes excess cases of G-B, it is very rare, not occasional, and hard to make definitive conclusions with such small numbers. The latest from the CDC on this topic:
"The background rate for GBS in the Unites States is about 80 to 160 cases of GBS each week, regardless of vaccination. The data on the association between GBS and seasonal flu vaccination are variable and inconsistent across flu seasons. If there is an increased risk of GBS following flu vaccination it is small, on the order of one to two additional GBS cases per million doses of flu vaccine administered."
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - jacket3ree - 09-27-2024
Love the discussion about relative risk. I think the topic is what keeps food on my table professionally.
I will admit to not thinking about it much when I was vaccinated on Wednesday. I just did it without weighing the relative risks of:
A vaccine complication (two at once) versus getting laid up with Covid or the flu, or worse, passing it to someone who would be even sicker than me.
Getting hurt or worse driving to CVS when I would otherwise be sitting on my butt at my desk. (Maybe to still get hurt driving home later.)
Getting a Chick-fil-A Deluxe (with cheese!) and a milkshake...and waffle fries....with honey mustard dipping sauce as a weird reward for taking care of my immune system on the fly in September no less versus, well, not stopping at Chick-fil-A and eating an apple at my desk like I should.
Taking the time to stop at Chick-fil-A versus heading immediately back to the office to be sure I'm on time for a client meeting on what will be a billion dollar (ROM) job I'm designing.
In conclusion, the chicken sandwich and shake were definitely worth the risk of missing the meeting, because I didn't in fact miss the meeting. When I shuffle off this mortal coil five minutes earlier than I should have because of the chicken sandwich on a random Wednesday in 2024, I am going to fondly remember the milkshake and how it really hit the spot. Unless I'm hit by a bus first and none of this matters.
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - BostonCard - 01-31-2025
Back to MTL, he makes a cameo in this piece about fraud in Alzheimer's Disease research.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/24/opinion/alzheimers-fraud-cure.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20250124&instance_id=145658&nl=the-morning®i_id=112348342&segment_id=189157&user_id=ceb8dc75e6018f57e5d7fc74f24220a2
The characterization of MTL's role seems to take the University report at face value. I think that's fair, but I think others might disagree and feel like he was much more complicit.
Quote:Marc Tessier-Lavigne, the former president of Stanford University, was known as a global leader in research on the brain’s circuitry in Alzheimer’s and other neurological conditions. He resigned in 2023 after an intrepid student journalist revealed numerous altered images in his research. Dr. Tessier-Lavigne didn’t personally falsify data or coerce junior colleagues to do so. But he failed to correct dubious results that came to his attention and may have provided inadequate oversight of his lab — allowing apparently doctored studies that helped build his reputation to remain on the scientific record, according to an investigation by a special committee appointed by the university’s board of trustees. In his resignation letter, Dr. Tessier-Lavigne denied that he had engaged in any unethical research but admitted that there were instances in which he “should have been more diligent in seeking corrections.”
Interesting (and sad) reading. That being said, the author seems to underplay the effect of intervening on amyloid. Here are the clinical trials of lecanemab and donanedab, the two monoclonal antibodies that target amyloid in the brain.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2212948
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2100708
Over the course of 18 months, they slow down the progression of Alzheimer's disease by about a third (so that someone on the drug for 18 months progresses to the same extent as someone not on the drug for 12 months). That's not revolutionary, but that does make amyloid targeting drugs the only drugs that have slowed the progression of the disease. Whether that is so minute as to be imperceptible is a matter of opinion, and research has shown that the "minimally clinically important difference" (MCID) for the CDR-SB is about 1 point, which is more than the difference between treatment arms at 18 months (the length of the trial). But the fact that intervening on amyloid produces any difference at all validates the hypothesis that amyloid plays a role in the pathophysiology of disease, despite the fact that the field is rife with misconduct.
Both things can be correct at once:
The field of AD (and especially the role of amyloid in it) is rife with fraud
Notwithstanding this, the fact that drugs which clear amyloid reduce the progression of disease is pretty direct evidence that amyloid is at least partially causative in the pathology of disease
BC
(disclosure: neither of the two drugs are made by my employer, though the company continues to pursue drugs that target amyloid; I'm not involved)
RE: Tessier-Lavigne research under investigation for scientific misconduct - Hurlburt88 - 02-01-2025
My daughter is at U of Minn med school, and one of her profs is Sylvain Lesne who (obviously) has been discredited for image tampering in some papers. My daughter is struggling to square her high regard for him as a teacher with him now being investigated by the university and widely being blamed for causing misdirection of research for years.