Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Printable Version
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RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - teejers1 - 06-04-2021
(06-04-2021, 06:46 AM)Mick Wrote: Maybe Farhan knew what he was doing. To me, steps like declining to pay Kevin Pillar $10 million annually indicated that he wouldn't do the desperate moves. The cupboard was essentially bare when Farhan took over. Aging stars, virtually every minor league team finished in last or second to last place, first round picks that were comparative failures, two terrible season records.
Very quickly, Farhan and Scott turned it around. New coaching staff, all the teams in the minors save one turned it around, the aging stars started to hit again -- every starter in the field in 2019 had career years except one who had their second best year. They cut bloated salaries, they brought in short term help, they identified under-recognized players (Yastrzemski) that they brought into the fold. They brought in high-ceiling starting pitchers on bargain deals. And they brought in a smart, highly underrated manager.
And now, they are tied for the best record in MLB. They are winning because they have no weaknesses. They have the best fielding defense (fewest errors), they have the #9 OPS and #8 most runs scored in MLB, they have the #6 ERA and the #5 WHIP. They're #19 in batting average, but #8 in OPS, reflecting their coaching. Their strength of schedule is about average at #18/
As for the future, all of their mega-deal salaries come off their books this year except for Longoria. I think the Giants have a bright future.
Think it was (and is) pretty clear that Farhan knows what he is doing; and I like the GM (Harris), too.
Kapler has been very good this season, especially with pinch-hitting decisions; however, there remain the occasional head-scratchers. This criticism isn't reserved for Kapler, by any means, but I absolutely detest the knee-jerk reaction to bring in a closer for the ninth inning, especially when you don't really have one. There was a game a while back where Rogers cruised through the 8th on something like 11 pitches, and Kapler brought in a wobbly McGee to "close." To no one's surprise, he blew it. I'm big on "what do your eyes tell you in the moment" versus formulaic managing. Also, last night, did DeSclafani hit in the bottom of the inning, but not come out and pitch the top of the next inning? That strikes me as an indefensible move, so I'm thinking I must have missed the beginning of the inning when the Cubs were batting. Still, overall Kapler has done well.
Now for the concerns that are hard to shake:
1. Rogers has a unique/freaky delivery that batters are unaccustomed to, and therefore struggle to adjust. BUT, as the season progresses and batters see Rogers for the 4th+ time, I expect his effectiveness to drop . . . perhaps dramatically.
2. No closer; and bully is questionable (at least a few arms there are).
3. If you had to bet the mortgage, would you say these guys are major league hitters (i.e., will finish .250 or above): Dubon? Any of the OF listed on the active roster (Duggar, Slater, Tauchman, Wade)? The backup catcher? Heck, even Yaz?
4. To date, don't you get the sense the Giants have done a lot with duct tape and chicken wire? It's amazing they have the record they do with all the guys rotating through the injured list, but it seems hard to sustain.
On the bright side,
1. The vets are playing very well;
2. Longoria, Belt, and La Stella will be back at some point; and
3. The starting pitching has been excellent, overall. (Don't like to see Webb on IL).
4. And Buster. I viewed him as a Punching Judy hitter and a DP machine at the plate in his last season, but he has been surprisingly strong to date.
Anyway, been great so far. Long way to go.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-04-2021
Hey Giants. I see you haven’t opened your pm capabilities Please do or email be
Bobkinder@earthlink.net
Fun question
Bob
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - lex24 - 06-04-2021
(06-04-2021, 10:52 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(06-04-2021, 06:46 AM)Mick Wrote: Maybe Farhan knew what he was doing. To me, steps like declining to pay Kevin Pillar $10 million annually indicated that he wouldn't do the desperate moves. The cupboard was essentially bare when Farhan took over. Aging stars, virtually every minor league team finished in last or second to last place, first round picks that were comparative failures, two terrible season records.
Very quickly, Farhan and Scott turned it around. New coaching staff, all the teams in the minors save one turned it around, the aging stars started to hit again -- every starter in the field in 2019 had career years except one who had their second best year. They cut bloated salaries, they brought in short term help, they identified under-recognized players (Yastrzemski) that they brought into the fold. They brought in high-ceiling starting pitchers on bargain deals. And they brought in a smart, highly underrated manager.
And now, they are tied for the best record in MLB. They are winning because they have no weaknesses. They have the best fielding defense (fewest errors), they have the #9 OPS and #8 most runs scored in MLB, they have the #6 ERA and the #5 WHIP. They're #19 in batting average, but #8 in OPS, reflecting their coaching. Their strength of schedule is about average at #18/
As for the future, all of their mega-deal salaries come off their books this year except for Longoria. I think the Giants have a bright future.
Think it was (and is) pretty clear that Farhan knows what he is doing; and I like the GM (Harris), too.
Kapler has been very good this season, especially with pinch-hitting decisions; however, there remain the occasional head-scratchers. This criticism isn't reserved for Kapler, by any means, but I absolutely detest the knee-jerk reaction to bring in a closer for the ninth inning, especially when you don't really have one. There was a game a while back where Rogers cruised through the 8th on something like 11 pitches, and Kapler brought in a wobbly McGee to "close." To no one's surprise, he blew it. I'm big on "what do your eyes tell you in the moment" versus formulaic managing. Also, last night, did DeSclafani hit in the bottom of the inning, but not come out and pitch the top of the next inning? That strikes me as an indefensible move, so I'm thinking I must have missed the beginning of the inning when the Cubs were batting. Still, overall Kapler has done well.
Now for the concerns that are hard to shake:
1. Rogers has a unique/freaky delivery that batters are unaccustomed to, and therefore struggle to adjust. BUT, as the season progresses and batters see Rogers for the 4th+ time, I expect his effectiveness to drop . . . perhaps dramatically.
2. No closer; and bully is questionable (at least a few arms there are).
3. If you had to bet the mortgage, would you say these guys are major league hitters (i.e., will finish .250 or above): Dubon? Any of the OF listed on the active roster (Duggar, Slater, Tauchman, Wade)? The backup catcher? Heck, even Yaz?
4. To date, don't you get the sense the Giants have done a lot with duct tape and chicken wire? It's amazing they have the record they do with all the guys rotating through the injured list, but it seems hard to sustain.
On the bright side,
1. The vets are playing very well;
2. Longoria, Belt, and La Stella will be back at some point; and
3. The starting pitching has been excellent, overall. (Don't like to see Webb on IL).
4. And Buster. I viewed him as a Punching Judy hitter and a DP machine at the plate in his last season, but he has been surprisingly strong to date.
Anyway, been great so far. Long way to go.
DeSclafani did hit in the 6th. I believe with two outs and no one on. Up 5-2. He walked. He did not come out to pitch the7th. Remember, they only have 5 bench players. Longoria is banged up and they didn’t want to use him unless absolutely necessary. That leaves 4. I believe he had already brought Dubon in for Flores (who also has leg issues). That’s 3. Vosler, Tromp and Slater. You don’t use your no 2 catcher as a PH unless you absolutely have to. And he’s gonna save Slater for a platoon situation. That left Vosler. No reason to use him then. So letting him hit was entirely defensible.
.250? Hell, that’s a high batting average these days. MLB ave is about .235. (It was .232 at end of April. League hit .239 in May) Here are some other offensive numbers and thoughts through May. Courtesy of Jayson Stark:
Pitchers today are all Nolan Ryan. Ryan averaged 9.55 K’s per 9. Struck out 25.3 % of the hitters he faced. Thru May, teams striking out at a rate of 9.24 per 9. Ave is 24.2%). Meaning strikeout average is higher than batting ave.
At present rate there will be 1,100 fewer doubles hit than in ‘19. And 4,000 less singles than a decade ago. Teams are averaging g less thann5 singles per game. Which if it holds will be first time ever.
Stolen base attempt rate is lowest since 1964.
Double plays are also at a very low rate.
Hey, but those launch angles are great. And who doesn’t love Three True Outcomes. So mathematically pure…..
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Giants - 06-04-2021
(06-04-2021, 11:33 AM)BobK Wrote: Hey Giants. I see you haven’t opened your pm capabilities Please do or email be
Bobkinder@earthlink.net
Fun question
Bob
Hey Bob,
I have no idea how to initiate pm capabilities. I’ll send you an email.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-04-2021
I think baseball passed a rule without telling anybody about it. They banned the hit and run.
Point of comparison.
Yogi Berra, one of the two best catchers of his generation... 7,555 AB's, .285 lifetime, 385 homers, 414 K's.
Yadier Molina, one of the two best catchers of his generation... 7,259 AB's, .281 lifetime, 167 homers, 835 K's. And that's not a bad rate in the minds of today's execs and managers. Horses***.
Strikeouts are boring. Homer's get to be boring. Keep the ball in play and you have a chance.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - old spanish trail - 06-04-2021
Four home runs tonight. Second in MLB. Whaaat?
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-04-2021
(06-04-2021, 06:57 AM)Phogge Wrote: Hope you are right Mick. I don't care about stats except for W's. I just hope that Kapler isn't caught in a midnight raid in an illegal coconut oil parlor.
Same here, candidly. They're on a pace to win 102, and I just can't seem to believe it. Kapler's a different dude all right, but he seems to fit. His Giants winning percentage is .552, about the same as Billy Martin's career managing win percentage, and better than LaSorda's.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Nan3cy - 06-04-2021
(06-01-2021, 08:18 AM)Phogge Wrote: Boy, brings back memories Bobbbbb. Probably nobody else on the Board knows what you are talking about. Great critic. Other SF greats... Bobby Stevens, Bill Leiser, Prescott Sullivan, Charlie McCabe, Curley Grieve, Paine Kinckerbocker...Read Caen everyday but he was a major SOB.
Au contraire, Phogge. Front page of the second section, wasn’t that where his column was? You forgot Art Hoppe? Caen may have been an SOB but he was nice to me the one time I met him. It was after that great *great* 1990 Big Game, and I was walking out of the stadium with some friends, and there was a limo waiting for the crowd to lighten up so it could get out of its close-to-the-exit parking place. I looked in the back seat and there was Herb Caen. I leaned into the open window and said “Sorry about the game, Herb.” (I wasn’t, but it seemed like the right thing to say.) He just smiled and said, “Well, it was a great game.”
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Mick - 06-04-2021
(06-04-2021, 10:52 AM)teejers1 Wrote: Now for the concerns that are hard to shake:
1. Rogers has a unique/freaky delivery that batters are unaccustomed to, and therefore struggle to adjust. BUT, as the season progresses and batters see Rogers for the 4th+ time, I expect his effectiveness to drop . . . perhaps dramatically.
Been wondering that myself. I checked out three other submarine pitchers (Chad Bradford, Darold Knowles, Dan Quisenberry, Kent Tekulve). Didn't seem to matter early or late season, they were fairly consistent with some up and down months, but no trends to late season or mid season ineffectiveness.
I remember Dave Heaverlo, pitched for both the A's and the Giants. He was a sidearmer (like Walter Johnson) and he did fit that pattern...tore it up in April and May, limited effectiveness after that.
lex24 - lex24 - 06-05-2021
(06-04-2021, 10:48 PM)Mick Wrote:(06-04-2021, 10:52 AM)teejers1 Wrote: Now for the concerns that are hard to shake:
1. Rogers has a unique/freaky delivery that batters are unaccustomed to, and therefore struggle to adjust. BUT, as the season progresses and batters see Rogers for the 4th+ time, I expect his effectiveness to drop . . . perhaps dramatically.
Been wondering that myself. I checked out three other submarine pitchers (Chad Bradford, Darold Knowles, Dan Quisenberry, Kent Tekulve). Didn't seem to matter early or late season, they were fairly consistent with some up and down months, but no trends to late season or mid season ineffectiveness.
I remember Dave Heaverlo, pitched for both the A's and the Giants. He was a sidearmer (like Walter Johnson) and he did fit that pattern...tore it up in April and May, limited effectiveness after that.
Last season Rogers got better as the year progressed. And he pitched only against NL West and AL West. They saw him plenty. His kind of funk is hard to adjust to. Plus he does a terrific job of keeping the ball down. With his delivery that induces a lot of ground balls. The one save he blew recently was due in part to Solano’s error. (Although I believe the Dodgers official scores gave the guy a hit)
Rogers will be fine. They need to fill in behind him. (Or if they pick up a closer (doubtful) he’s a good 7th or 8th guy.
Littel and Baragar (they need him back) have been effective. Mendez has given them a lift this week (but I don’t expect that to last). Garcia throwing much better. Kazmir doesn’t look like he has much. Alvarez has been bad. Wisler might be the worst reliever in the league. Tropeano and Leone - maybe one of them shows something. Doubtful. They need to use McGee wisely. I don’t think he’s a guy that can throw 3 in 5.
As for the starters. Health is the issue. Gausman cranky hip. Webb is going to be out a long time. Sanchez, who knows. He was hitting about 90 on the gun. A little short of the 97 he was throwing when he did his tryout.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-05-2021
Top of 9 up 2 and now three plays you almost never see Time to hold my breath
Yet the Giants win 4-3. Torture abd we love it
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-05-2021
Dubon doesn't need to be sent down. He needs to be sent to baseball school. Completely brain dead. Against great odds Rogers was magnificent.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - old spanish trail - 06-05-2021
(06-05-2021, 07:45 PM)Phogge Wrote: Dubon doesn't need to be sent down. He needs to be sent to baseball school. Completely brain dead. Against great odds Rogers was magnificent.
Those two plays were indeed ugly but he's had several very important hits. Baserunning is sometimes a mystery for sure. Did Longoria think Crawford was over by 2nd in a shift. Haven't seen that collision in years. Hope Longoria is ok...and he doesn't have to go to baseball school.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-06-2021
Plus the easy steals to put the tying run at 3rd the winning run at 2nd.
4 terrible plays and a Win
lex24 - lex24 - 06-06-2021
(06-05-2021, 09:27 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:(06-05-2021, 07:45 PM)Phogge Wrote: Dubon doesn't need to be sent down. He needs to be sent to baseball school. Completely brain dead. Against great odds Rogers was magnificent.
Those two plays were indeed ugly but he's had several very important hits. Baserunning is sometimes a mystery for sure. Did Longoria think Crawford was over by 2nd in a shift. Haven't seen that collision in years. Hope Longoria is ok...and he doesn't have to go to baseball school.
Dubon plays with a lot of energy. Almost frenetic. He does need to figure out how to slow things down at times. Second time he’s been brought in for defensive and made key ninth inning mistakes. Giants survived winning both. But it might cost them Longoria. That doesn’t look good.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - BobK - 06-06-2021
Longoria out 4-6 weeks. Estrada recalled. He came from Yankees abd was hitting 382 at Sacramento
Giants now have 15 on IL
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-06-2021
Chuck Estrada retired many years ago.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - qwerty49 - 06-06-2021
(06-06-2021, 12:14 PM)Phogge Wrote: Chuck Estrada retired many years ago.
So did Erik.
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Phogge - 06-06-2021
Isn’t he about 90 years old?
RE: [merged] Giants/Niners 2021 thread - Giants - 06-06-2021
(06-06-2021, 03:08 PM)Phogge Wrote: Isn’t he about 90 years old?
Hey, he is a ‘49er, like me and The Boss. We ain’t that ancient (yet)..... :)