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RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-30-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698673857' Wrote: 1698673857[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1698671992' Wrote: 1698671992[/url]']
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698670930' Wrote: 1698670930[/url]']
It seems to me Kyle Shanahan is getting outreached now, on both sides of the ball. He may not be the DC, but he's the Head Coach, and he - as he said - is ultimately responsible.
I'm tired of seeing Kyle Juszcyzk and Charlie Woerner. They are playing way too much and neither is a threat as a receiver. Jus has 6 catches in 8 games for 39 yds. Woerner has 0. It's time to play the rookie TE Brayden Willis. He might not be the blocker Werner is, but he is a much greater passing threat and just having him on the field will force defenses to defend him rather than completely ignore him as a pass threat when he's on the field. Kittle as the only pass receiving TE threat is not good enough. Also need to go with more 4 WR sets (could be Kittle plate wide) that stretch the field, and I want to see Ronnie Bell, because Danny Gray doesn't appear to be someone who is ever going to do anything.
Purdy leads the NFL in 9.1 YPA, and is the #2 rated QB. He can create big plays in the pass game. He's just not getting enough opportunities because Shanahan is putting him in too many obvious passing situations by running too much in predictable ways on early downs. CMac is the NFL's leading rusher, but the OL are not road graters who can overpower defenses designed to stop him. They need to use him as a decoy in run game more to open up passing game until teams fail back their focus on him a bit.
The most productive the offense was agains the Bengals? When Purdy threw 3 straight play-action passes on first down. They worked because the Bengals were hell bent on stopping the run on first down. The same thing applies in short yardage. A 2nd and 1 is the perfect play-action passing down. But first drive of game, run for 9 yards. Then it's two runs for no gain because the Bengals expected it. Kyle needs to self-scout himself a lot more than he apparently is.
The Defense, I have no answers. It felt like Wilks was being clowned in the first half once again. The Burrow run up the middle with nobody in the middle of the field on defense was just embarrassing. Was like UW's defense when Daniels ran in untouched with nobody in front of him. Niners haven't forced a punt in the last two first halves.
Where was Randy Gregory yesterday? They seemed to have - now fair to call a bust - Drake Jackson playing ahead of him. The Niners are 0-3 with Gregory, BTW.
Predictable. It’s always Shanahans fault when they lose. Perhaps you should apply for the OC job. By the way - they passed on something like 15 of 21 first down plays.
Dude, the Head Coach is responsible for everything. He says he is, but you take exception that? I didn't have anything to say about Shanahan after the first 2 losses in their streak. But the Bengals game demonstrated the same issues over three weeks. Are you here to say Kyle Shanahan isn't responsible?
The Niners have been talking about how they are Super Bowl contenders, but do you see a team that looks like one the last three weeks? The NFL talent evaluators have said they have one of the top 3-4 most talented rosters in the NFL. They are paying top dollar at several positions. This isn't Stanford, where you just want to be competitive and show progress. The San Francisco 49ers this year are suppose to be great on both sides of the ball. The last three weeks they have been terrible on both sides of the ball. I'm not calling for Shanahan's head. I called for the DC's head last week, but who else is responsible for the last 3 weeks of putrid performances than Kyle Shanahan?
And why do you get so upset at people making suggestions for improvement?
Dude? Please, no.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-30-2023
Here's a George Kittle quote:
"when the outside zone run disappears, all the plays that the 49ers have built off it — the play-action passes, the bootlegs, the quarterback keepers — disappear as well."
Stop the outside zone run against the Niners and the whole offense falls apart. Think maybe Defensive Coordinators facing the Niners know this.
The question that must be answered is can Purdy be relied on to win the game with a spread field and 4-5 WR concepts? If he can, the offense will have more dimensions to it and be more difficult to stop. If he can't, those who have claimed Purdy is too limited will be proven correct. I believe he can, but I'm not convinced Shanahan will give him the opportunity because as Kittle says "the whole offense s predicated on outside zone."
But again, the Defense has more issues than the Offense, so Shanahan is going to have his work cut out for him these next two weeks.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-30-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698675023' Wrote: 1698675023[/url]']
Here's a George Kittle quote:
"when the outside zone run disappears, all the plays that the 49ers have built off it — the play-action passes, the bootlegs, the quarterback keepers — disappear as well."
Stop the outside zone run against the Niners and the whole offense falls apart. Think maybe Defensive Coordinators facing the Niners know this.
The question that must be answered is can Purdy be relied on to win the game with a spread field and 4-5 WR concepts? If he can, the offense will have more dimensions to it and be more difficult to stop. If he can't, those who have claimed Purdy is too limited will be proven correct. I believe he can, but I'm not convinced Shanahan will give him the opportunity because as Kittle says "the whole offense s predicated on outside zone."
But again, the Defense has more issues than the Offense, so Shanahan is going to have his work cut out for him these next two weeks.
They had 460 yards. Take away the last 60 on two meaningless plays. Moving the ball wasn’t the issue.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2023
(10-30-2023, 07:28 AM)lex24 Wrote: They had 460 yards. Take away the last 60 on two meaningless plays. Moving the ball wasn’t the issue.
That's a little stronger than I'd put it. The offense looked a little too boom-bust and the line was below-average. Still, to me the defense is the pressing issue.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-30-2023
washingtonismoney dateline='[url=tel:1698677108' Wrote: 1698677108[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1698676128' Wrote: 1698676128[/url]']
They had 460 yards. Take away the last 60 on two meaningless plays. Moving the ball wasn’t the issue.
That's a little stronger than I'd put it. The offense looked a little too boom-bust and the line was below-average. Still, to me the defense is the pressing issue.
Agree completely on the line. They’ve been beaten badly at LOS last 3 games. Which to me is the heart of the issue.
And yes, the defense is the big issue.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-30-2023
(10-30-2023, 07:28 AM)lex24 Wrote:OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698675023' Wrote: 1698675023[/url]']
Here's a George Kittle quote:
"when the outside zone run disappears, all the plays that the 49ers have built off it — the play-action passes, the bootlegs, the quarterback keepers — disappear as well."
Stop the outside zone run against the Niners and the whole offense falls apart. Think maybe Defensive Coordinators facing the Niners know this.
The question that must be answered is can Purdy be relied on to win the game with a spread field and 4-5 WR concepts? If he can, the offense will have more dimensions to it and be more difficult to stop. If he can't, those who have claimed Purdy is too limited will be proven correct. I believe he can, but I'm not convinced Shanahan will give him the opportunity because as Kittle says "the whole offense s predicated on outside zone."
But again, the Defense has more issues than the Offense, so Shanahan is going to have his work cut out for him these next two weeks.
They had 460 yards. Take away the last 60 on two meaningless plays. Moving the ball wasn’t the issue.
Obviously, yards don't equal points. Name another team in the NFL where if you take away one play they run, their offense tanks. I can't think of any.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-30-2023
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698677674' Wrote: 1698677674[/url]']
lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1698676128' Wrote: 1698676128[/url]']
OutsiderFan dateline='[url=tel:1698675023' Wrote: 1698675023[/url]']
Here's a George Kittle quote:
"when the outside zone run disappears, all the plays that the 49ers have built off it — the play-action passes, the bootlegs, the quarterback keepers — disappear as well."
Stop the outside zone run against the Niners and the whole offense falls apart. Think maybe Defensive Coordinators facing the Niners know this.
The question that must be answered is can Purdy be relied on to win the game with a spread field and 4-5 WR concepts? If he can, the offense will have more dimensions to it and be more difficult to stop. If he can't, those who have claimed Purdy is too limited will be proven correct. I believe he can, but I'm not convinced Shanahan will give him the opportunity because as Kittle says "the whole offense s predicated on outside zone."
But again, the Defense has more issues than the Offense, so Shanahan is going to have his work cut out for him these next two weeks.
They had 460 yards. Take away the last 60 on two meaningless plays. Moving the ball wasn’t the issue.
Obviously, yards don't equal points. Name another team in the NFL where if you take away one play they run, their offense tanks. I can't think of any.
Yes. They lost 7 when their future HOF QB threw an interception inside the 10. Another 4th Q int didn’t help.
The offense didn’t “tank”.
You ragged on Shanahan’s last year when they started slow. Don’t recall you doing so when they were 5-0. He hasn’t forgot how to coach. But I understand he could use your help.
I’m curious - on your personnel moves - how has Brayden Willis looked in practice? Is he ripping it up? I’m sure if Shanahan just took your sage advice and used Willis as the second TE all would be fine.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2023
(10-30-2023, 07:48 AM)lex24 Wrote: Agree completely on the line. They’ve been beaten badly at LOS last 3 games.
Yeah, again, a little stronger than I'd put it, though maybe Purdy's mobility has masked a bunch of issues. I'd put the OL on the bad side of fine. And certainly -- knock on wood -- whenever Deebo gets back I'd anticipate the offense being in good shape, independent of Williams's recovery time and any improved performance from the rest of the line. I'm basically pretty breezy on offensive performance right now. I think the issues will work themselves out there.
Defense is weird, because to me it's just a complete mystery. Just a sudden comprehensive meltdown from most aspects of the unit.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - lex24 - 10-31-2023
1 PM trade deadline. Hoping for a treat. Preferably a DB. Niners have plenty of cap space. But not much draft capital.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 07:43 AM)lex24 Wrote: 1 PM trade deadline. Hoping for a treat. Preferably a DB. Niners have plenty of cap space. But not much draft capital.
I'd pick up a OL first. DB second. Need both.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 08:56 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(10-31-2023, 07:43 AM)lex24 Wrote: 1 PM trade deadline. Hoping for a treat. Preferably a DB. Niners have plenty of cap space. But not much draft capital.
I'd pick up a OL first. DB second. Need both.
Agreed. McKivitz and Jaylon Moore surprisingly graded out relatively high by pff, in the 60s. All three interior linemen graded out poorly, all three in the 40s. I'd like to see them replaced. And we need some lockdown DBs. And I'm not sold on Wilks. And my dog threw up in her crate on my birthday, so I celebrated my birthday with a 49er loss, a Warriors victory, and hosing out my dog's crate, marveling at my labrador's capacity for eating literally anything.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 10:03 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-31-2023, 08:56 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(10-31-2023, 07:43 AM)lex24 Wrote: 1 PM trade deadline. Hoping for a treat. Preferably a DB. Niners have plenty of cap space. But not much draft capital.
I'd pick up a OL first. DB second. Need both.
Agreed. McKivitz and Jaylon Moore surprisingly graded out relatively high by pff, in the 60s. All three interior linemen graded out poorly, all three in the 40s. I'd like to see them replaced. And we need some lockdown DBs. And I'm not sold on Wilks. And my dog threw up in her crate on my birthday, so I celebrated my birthday with a 49er loss, a Warriors victory, and hosing out my dog's crate, marveling at my labrador's capacity for eating literally anything.
Our Lab ate a 12 inch nylon sock that blocked his intestine when he was 1 which required surgery. His favorite foods these days are Rabbit poop and Acorn shells from Oak tree. I have to watch him diligently to make sure he doesn't his and his brother's poop, which is disgusting! Thankfully, he doesn't eat any other dog's feces! On the good side, he eats broccoli and lettuce too! Labs are food-obsessed, but Wiley has to be in the 99th percentile of food-obsessed dogs. It's really almost unbelievable.
As for Niners, I agree with Shanahan that they have the players they need in their building. But they can of course add more to make the team better.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 10:29 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(10-31-2023, 10:03 AM)Mick Wrote:(10-31-2023, 08:56 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(10-31-2023, 07:43 AM)lex24 Wrote: 1 PM trade deadline. Hoping for a treat. Preferably a DB. Niners have plenty of cap space. But not much draft capital.
I'd pick up a OL first. DB second. Need both.
Agreed. McKivitz and Jaylon Moore surprisingly graded out relatively high by pff, in the 60s. All three interior linemen graded out poorly, all three in the 40s. I'd like to see them replaced. And we need some lockdown DBs. And I'm not sold on Wilks. And my dog threw up in her crate on my birthday, so I celebrated my birthday with a 49er loss, a Warriors victory, and hosing out my dog's crate, marveling at my labrador's capacity for eating literally anything.
Our Lab ate a 12 inch nylon sock that blocked his intestine when he was 1 which required surgery. His favorite foods these days are Rabbit poop and Acorn shells from Oak tree. I have to watch him diligently to make sure he doesn't his and his brother's poop, which is disgusting! Thankfully, he doesn't eat any other dog's feces! On the good side, he eats broccoli and lettuce too! Labs are food-obsessed, but Wiley has to be in the 99th percentile of food-obsessed dogs. It's really almost unbelievable.
As for Niners, I agree with Shanahan that they have the players they need in their building. But they can of course add more to make the team better.
I think Wiley and Ivy are of like minds. Odd aside...my Labrador will eat anything, but for some reason, she turns her nose up at the communal bowls of water that our local WG downtown merchants have outside their doors for thirsty dogs. Ivy won't drink from them. Go figure.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - washingtonismoney - 10-31-2023
Niners trading for Chase Young...damn!: https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1719423941431705802
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 10:33 AM)Mick Wrote: I think Wiley and Ivy are of like minds. Odd aside...my Labrador will eat anything, but for some reason, she turns her nose up at the communal bowls of water that our local WG downtown merchants have outside their doors for thirsty dogs. Ivy won't drink from them. Go figure.
Mine are basically the same. But there is a certain threshold of heat where they will break down and drink community bowl water.
And... Chase Young is a Niner.
He was one of the three guys I identified as trade targets, the other two being Danielle Hunter and Brian Burns. My guess is Niners like Young more than Burns because he costs less and is bigger than Burns.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 11:40 AM)washingtonismoney Wrote: Niners trading for Chase Young...damn!: https://twitter.com/DMRussini/status/1719423941431705802
He's got 12 tackles and 5 sacks in 7 games (6 starts). And he reunites with Nick Bosa. He's only 24 and was the 2nd pick in the draft and 2020 NFL rookie of the year. Niners gave up a third round pick. Down side, he had ACL surgery and missed 2022, but he's coming back strong. Last year of a $34.5 million contract, Washington declined to pick up his option. If we lose him, we get a compensatory pick. Damn good trade. Now all they need to do is get rid of some DL deadwood and replace their center and both guards.
49ers acquire defensive end Chase Young in blockbuster trade (msn.com)
RE: 2023 Niners thread - washingtonismoney - 10-31-2023
Kawakami sez another trade is likely coming.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - cardcrimson - 10-31-2023
Need a DB. Need OL.
RE: 2023 Niners thread - Mick - 10-31-2023
(10-31-2023, 01:18 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Need a DB. Need OL.
Rumor is 49ers want Bears CB Jaylon Johnson
49ers expressing interested in trade for Bears CB Jaylon Johnson, per report (msn.com)
RE: 2023 Niners thread - OutsiderFan - 11-01-2023
Before the Chase Young trade, I said the answers are on the roster already but that the team could get better by adding someone.
Though I'm not convinced Kyle Shanahan is the genius so many ascribe to him, he's proven enough to give me confidence he will figure out the Offense. The Defense is another story.
After watching some All-22 of the Defense against the Bengals, I'm alternately alarmed and confident. The personnel is not the problem as much as the scheme and execution. Mostly the same - and I would argue lesser personnel - were the #1 Defense in the NFL a year ago. The only real change was DC Steve Wilks who has deviated from what previous DCs Saleh and Ryans did. Jonnydel and Richard Sherman both said Wilks is playing much more man-to-man coverage (and they should be playing more zone) and pointed out how they aren't switching to zone enough after offenses have achieved advantages against expected man coverage looks.
There are technique problems, execution errors, and play calling mistakes. The most insidious thing that can happen to a football team is lack of trust between teammates or guys trying to do more than their assignment. Run defense is about gap control. Each guy is assigned a gap. When one player abandons his gap to go into another gap he doesn't trust a teammate to fill, wide running lanes open up that good runners take advantage of for big gains. Wilks is also having them play more man-to-man coverage than they ever have before, including in the red zone.
The lack of trust can be in a teammate, but the mindset of feeling you need to do too much can be based on a lack of trust in your DC. When that happens, players like Fred Warner try to do more than his job and the defense breaks down.
Last week, Jonnydel showed how the Niners weren't using a pass rushing scheme that was effective last year with Ryans. Amazingly, the scheme was used agains the Bengals, but it was executed poorly. Fred Warner was lined up in the B gap declaring himself as a possible pass rusher. Last year in this situation, Warner would drop at the snap of the ball, forcing the Guard to account for him as a possible pass rusher, giving a looping DE the split second advantage needed to get past him. Against the Bengals, he dropped off the line before the ball was snapped, allowing the Guard to ignore him and focus on the stunting Bosa right away. If Warner stayed at the LOS until the snap, the Guard wouldn't have had time to get to Bosa. Instead, he did. Burrow had just enough time to avoid the pressure and get the ball off for a first down. On the same play, Hargrave didn't push up field to increase the gap size for Bosa to run through. This isn't personnel. This is technique and execution. Why is Warner dropping before the snap? What makes Fred so special is he can stay at the line until the ball is snapped, and be the best coverage LB in the NFL. The Niners give that advantage away if he drops before the snap.
It looks to me like something has broken the trust between Wilks and the players that has caused the players to not trust their teammates. Fred Warner was the biggest culprit abasing the Bengals. On multiple occasions he overran plays that put two defenders in the same gap or side of a ball carrier. Just very basic stuff. Maybe he isn't trusting the pass D, so he dropped a split second before the snap thinking he needed more time to get into coverage. No Fred, you do your job!
Chase Young will help squeeze the pocket more, and will provide more pass rushing wins on the DL. That in and of itself will improve the defense, but if they don't fix the technique and execution issues, and guys don't start trusting each other to do their jobs, it's not going to be enough to make a difference, and certainly isn't gonna make the Niners a contender.
But, the pieces are absolutely there. The defense - with Hargrave and Young - is now unquestionably more talented than the 2022 version. The issue is coaching pure and simple. Can Kyle Shanahan assess the problems and get Wilks to adopt what worked with his predecessors? Richard Sherman seems confident he knows what to do. Will Kyle ask him to talk with Wilks? I've never in my life seen a more clear-cut reason for lack of performance in a team than Wilks being the reason the Niners Defense has collapsed, which I believe has impacted the Offense as well. This team is predicated on having a great Defense. If it isn't, the team is not going to achieve its championship aspirations.