Stanford to the ACC? - Printable Version
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RE: Stanford to the ACC? - OutsiderFan - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 11:01 AM)paloalto Wrote: One thing I've noticed there is a multitude of media sites and "influencers" who keep posting the same outdated stuff, change a few words, and make like it's breaking news.
Oh, you mean like this story that keeps on popping up on the Google machine as being published within minutes or hours ago, but is actually bylined August 11?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10085873-report-stanford-cal-unlikely-to-join-acc-amid-realignment-rumors-1-vote-short
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - oldalum - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 09:54 AM)crazypaco Wrote: Well yes the ACC had 3 women's college cup teams in 2011, 2013, and 2020. On the men's side they did it in 2009 and 2013. The men have had at least 2 teams reach the college cup for the last 4 seasons.Thanks for the info. I don't follow men's soccer and have not and don't make any claims about men's conference strength. In my opinion the Pac-12 and ACC women's soccer leagues have been about level over the past 12 years, in your opinion they haven't. Chacun le sien!
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - BobK - 08-22-2023
Im still upset when Sanchez from a San Jose HS to North Carolina to play soccer
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keri_Sanchez
She won 4 national titles
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - crazypaco - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 12:03 PM)oldalum Wrote:(08-22-2023, 09:54 AM)crazypaco Wrote: Well yes the ACC had 3 women's college cup teams in 2011, 2013, and 2020. On the men's side they did it in 2009 and 2013. The men have had at least 2 teams reach the college cup for the last 4 seasons.Thanks for the info. I don't follow men's soccer and have not and don't make any claims about men's conference strength. In my opinion the Pac-12 and ACC women's soccer leagues have been about level over the past 12 years, in your opinion they haven't. Chacun le sien!
I think depth is the most important criteria when comparing. But if Stanford gets into the ACC, my point is that is going to love it as a soccer conference, but it is brutal.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Vandelay - 08-22-2023
Stanford should show that Anson Dorrance video to every recruit in the country. Threatened? Yep. Insecure? Yep. Washed up has been? Yep.
https://www.wralsportsfan.com/die-on-the-vine-unc-s-dorrance-not-interested-in-adding-stanford-cal-to-the-acc/21012562/
In fact, someone should go and update his wikipedia page to note his ill-advised comments to WRAL.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - vataha - 08-22-2023
A couple days ago I read about AD ‘s comments. I decided to watch this with an open mind about what he said. When he said“die on the vine” I felt such a rush of anger that took me by surprise. Then he went on to compound it by acknowledging that we are drowning but instead of helping he gives us the bird. The whole situation is surreal and painful.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - cardcrimson - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 06:17 PM)vataha Wrote: A couple days ago I read about AD ‘s comments. I decided to watch this with an open mind about what he said. When he said“die on the vine” I felt such a rush of anger that took me by surprise. Then he went on to compound it by acknowledging that we are drowning but instead of helping he gives us the bird. The whole situation is surreal and painful.Dorrance takes a shot at our academics, and those of the Ivies as well:
“We would hate it,” he said, “especially Stanford and Cal. They’re going to live on an airplane. They’ll all funk out of school after one semester, assuming they have certified academics. Of course, you never know. Maybe . . the philosophy in the Ivy League is never flunk anyone out so their data looks really good, so who knows whether they’ll do it legitimately. But if you want to destroy someone’s academic progress have them fly across the country every weekend, and that’ll certainly compromise the academic standards for Stanford and Cal for their athletes.
“I don’t think it benefits them in any way, and we don’t need them. We’re the best women’s soccer conference in the country. Good luck to what remains of the Pac-12.”
What a prick. If ever someone deserves an ad hominem attack, it's Dorrance
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 12:48 PM)BobK Wrote: Im still upset when Sanchez from a San Jose HS to North Carolina to play soccer
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keri_Sanchez
She won 4 national titles
Right there with you. Courtney Jones, daughter of SCU's last really good tight end Brent Jones, turned her nose up at SCU in favor of UNC. (I don't know if she was recruited by Stanford). She was a four year starter from 2008 through 2011.
Candidly, I don't blame her. For a variety of reasons, I really don't care for the SCU women's soccer coach.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - jacket3ree - 08-22-2023
They aren't called Tarholes for nothin'.
Pretty funny listening to some dude whose school made up fake classes to pad athlete gpas (but since normal idiots could take the fake classes too, it's all cool) crap on another school's academic ease or difficulty.
A lot of the ACC would love to switch Clemson, FSU, and UNC for Cal, Stanford, and an old crow bar (or...SMU) in a heartbeat, viewership be damned. We've been under Tobacco Road's thumb for decades, which is usually blamed on UNC and Duke, but mostly UNC.
Someone somewhere said NC State and UNC are compelled by State law to be in the same conference. I don't know about that, but I can't believe the Pack wouldn't relish the chance to dump one over on Chapel Hill.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Softball Fan - 08-22-2023
Based on my experience young female athletes are more likely than male athletes to be put off by the UNC coach's trash talk. It's just not a good look to stomp on someone when they are down. I can't figure out what he was planning to accomplish with the insults. There have to be some in the UNC administration who are embarrassed by his words.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - cardcrimson - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 07:38 PM)jacket3ree Wrote: Pretty funny listening to some dude whose school made up fake classes to pad athlete gpas (but since normal idiots could take the fake classes too, it's all cool) crap on another school's academic ease or difficulty.Had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder, just adds to his, um, *%&#^*%ness
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Vandelay - 08-22-2023
The comments of Anson Dorrance are tantamount to a declaration of war against Stanford. Perhaps some good will come of it. Perhaps those in Stanford's administration will finally realize what they are up against and start playing hardball. Perhaps Stanford will finally decide to do something with that $38B war chest to remedy the current situation.
(08-22-2023, 06:17 PM)vataha Wrote: A couple days ago I read about AD ‘s comments. I decided to watch this with an open mind about what he said. When he said“die on the vine” I felt such a rush of anger that took me by surprise. Then he went on to compound it by acknowledging that we are drowning but instead of helping he gives us the bird. The whole situation is surreal and painful.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Hieronymus - 08-22-2023
(08-22-2023, 08:46 PM)Vandelay Wrote: The comments of Anson Dorrance are tantamount to a declaration of war against Stanford. Perhaps some good will come of it. Perhaps those in Stanford's administration will finally realize what they are up against and start playing hardball. Perhaps Stanford will finally decide to do something with that $38B war chest to remedy the current situation.
(08-22-2023, 06:17 PM)vataha Wrote: A couple days ago I read about AD ‘s comments. I decided to watch this with an open mind about what he said. When he said“die on the vine” I felt such a rush of anger that took me by surprise. Then he went on to compound it by acknowledging that we are drowning but instead of helping he gives us the bird. The whole situation is surreal and painful.
Fortunately AD is a bit of a dinosaur these days, and he is not the center of the women’s soccer universe anymore. He may still think he is though. Pretty petty comments on his end. But very few people will care much.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Vandelay - 08-23-2023
Jason Cole sez Cal/Stanford/ACC agreement could come today!
https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2023/08/23/agreement-cal-stanford-join-acc-could-soon/
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Mick - 08-23-2023
(08-22-2023, 07:54 PM)paloalto Wrote: Based on my experience young female athletes are more likely than male athletes to be put off by the UNC coach's trash talk. It's just not a good look to stomp on someone when they are down. I can't figure out what he was planning to accomplish with the insults. There have to be some in the UNC administration who are embarrassed by his words.
+1. There should be some fallout for Dorrance's ill-advised remarks, particularly on the recruiting side.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - StanfordMatt - 08-23-2023
(08-21-2023, 08:48 AM)msqueri Wrote:(08-21-2023, 08:36 AM)Goose Wrote:(08-21-2023, 07:50 AM)msqueri Wrote: In any case, the point is less to predict how Taylor will do compared to Harbaugh and more to say you could not have asked for a closer comparison resume-wise - former NFL QBs with limited (three years) but spectacular FCS level head coaching experience, a lifetime of succeeding at essentially everything they've ever done,Let's not get carried away here. TT failed spectacularly as the OC at Utah. I am sure you know that. It may be argued that the OC job at Utah is a difficult one based on the turnover there, but TT knew about that going in. He and the head coach saw the way ahead differently, and unsurprisingly TT lost that fight. He was basically pushed out of the strategic decision making mid-season and left at the end of the year.
That doesn't mean he was wrong about what he wanted to do, and it doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, and it doesn't mean he won't have success at Stanford. However is just isn't accurate to say "a lifetime of succeeding at essentially everything they've ever done". At the very least he massively misread that situation.
I know that Taylor coached at Utah and that there are some indications the parting may have been mutual but you are mistaken that he failed miserably at Utah. They were #52 and #75 in scoring offense his two years there, which compares to #55 and #60 in the two years preceding him (and #52, #66, #75, and #74 before that). Absolutely absurd to say he failed miserably. He was not what Whittingham wanted. That's the most you can say, that Whittingham did not set Taylor up for success because Whittingham hired something he didn't want, and perhaps that Taylor should not have taken a job that wasn't a perfect fit. But Taylor did just fine. Literally tied for the highest scoring offense rank in seven years in the one year he had "strategic decision making" as you put it.
I guess it's in the eye of the beholder whether being as successful as Whittingham's various OCs before he finally found one that clicked in the brief detour that was the Utah job disqualified from "essentially" succeeding at everything he's done. That was arguably the least successful chapter of Taylor's life and I'd say finishing sixth and ninth in the Pac-12 in scoring offense and matching the best national rank they'd had in seven years is the kind of "failed spectacularly" that makes my point.
You can't just look at the stats in judging TT's tenure at Utah. He was a toxic presence on the Ute staff and that, as much as any stat, is what led to his firing. TT does best when he's calling the shots and doesn't have to answer to anyone else. And that's totally fine for his current role. I may not want to have a beer with the guy but you don't have to be anyone's best friend to be a successful head football coach. It's a monarchy, not a democracy.
More Thoughts on Anson Dorrance - warren65 - 08-23-2023
Anson Dorrance is a complicated individual who has some amazing accomplishments as a college soccer coach. He has won a men’s soccer championship for North Carolina and, after taking over as the women’s coach, has won 21 national championships for the North Carolina women’s team. He coached the women’s national team to its first world cup in 1991. His college players were for many years the biggest stars on the national team (Mia Hamm and Kristine Lilly for example). Dorrance has written books about soccer.
Dorrance’s last national championship came in 2012. His program, however, has not withered away. Since that year, his team continues to make the final four in many years and has three times been the runner up. In 2019, North Carolina lost the championship game to Stanford. That was a disappointment for North Carolina, but the Stanford 2019 team was probably the best to ever grace the women’s college soccer scene. The squad included Caterina Macario, Sophia Smith, and Naomi Girma, all soon to be stars on the women’s national team, as well as several other players who went on to play professionally. In 2019, Stanford scored more goals than any team in women’s college soccer history.
Despite Stanford’s offensive prowess, Dorrance’s North Carolina team held Stanford scoreless for 90 minutes of regulation and 20 minutes of overtime. Stanford finally won the game on penalty kicks.
So much for Dorrance’s accomplishments. There are some shadows hanging over the man. In the 1990s, two of his players accused him of sexual harassment. There was extensive litigation, ending up in monetary settlements (no admission of guilt).
Throughout his career as a coach, Dorrance has been known for putting aggressive players on the pitch. Santa Clara coach Jerry Smith said “I’ll go beyond aggressiveness. It’s meanness. Anson has found a way to bring that out of his players.”
In a regular season match against North Carolina, Stanford star defensive back Tierna Davidson was aggressively tackled by a North Carolina player, resulting in a broken leg that effectively ended her Stanford career.
So is the aggressive behavior that Dorrance encourages part of the sport, or is it over the top? You decide.
In the fall of 2019, Stanford visited Chapel Hill for a regular season match against North Carolina. Minutes before the start of the match, Dorrance complained to officials that Stanford’s starting goalkeeper, Katie Meyer, was wearing jewelry in her pierced ears in violation of the rules. Meyer had to be withdrawn from the line up to have the jewelry removed. She entered the game five or so minutes later.
Dorrence was acting within the rules, but what does this action say about the man? The jewelry was presumably studs left in place to maintain ear piercings. It was unobjectionable to the Stanford coaching staff and no prior opposing coach had made an issue of it. You decide.
Dorrance’s recent comments about possible conference realignment suggest an almost visceral hatred of Stanford (Stanford and California should “die on the vine” rather than be added to the ACC conference). I understand that Dorrance may be frustrated by Stanford’s recruiting successes. It is now Stanford, not North Carolina, that has the most national team players. But these sorts of comments do not flatter the man. Would you recommend that an aspiring high school soccer star play for Dorrance?
Happily, Stanford coach Paul Ratcliffe has not, and would not, make disparaging comments about the North Carolina program.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - Softball Fan - 08-23-2023
https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2023/08/23/agreement-cal-stanford-join-acc-could-soon/
The above article put out today. I'm not getting excited. I'll have to see a report the expansion is a fait accompli before I will believe anything.
RE: Stanford to the ACC? - gailtate - 08-23-2023
This is Stanford's Last Best Hope. Y'all better PRAY, whether or not you're people of faith, that it goes down. If it doesn't happen, you're staring straight into the abyss.
RE: More Thoughts on Anson Dorrance - cardcrimson - 08-23-2023
(08-23-2023, 10:43 AM)warren65 Wrote: Anson Dorrance is a complicated individual who has some amazing accomplishments as a college soccer coach. He has won a men’s soccer championship for North Carolina and, after taking over as the women’s coach, has won 21 national championships for the North Carolina women’s team. He coached the women’s national team to its first world cup in 1991. His college players were for many years the biggest stars on the national team (Mia Hamm and Kristine Lilly for example). Dorrance has written books about soccer.
Dorrance’s last national championship came in 2012. His program, however, has not withered away. Since that year, his team continues to make the final four in many years and has three times been the runner up. In 2019, North Carolina lost the championship game to Stanford. That was a disappointment for North Carolina, but the Stanford 2019 team was probably the best to ever grace the women’s college soccer scene. The squad included Caterina Macario, Sophia Smith, and Naomi Girma, all soon to be stars on the women’s national team, as well as several other players who went on to play professionally. In 2019, Stanford scored more goals than any team in women’s college soccer history.
Despite Stanford’s offensive prowess, Dorrance’s North Carolina team held Stanford scoreless for 90 minutes of regulation and 20 minutes of overtime. Stanford finally won the game on penalty kicks.
So much for Dorrance’s accomplishments. There are some shadows hanging over the man. In the 1990s, two of his players accused him of sexual harassment. There was extensive litigation, ending up in monetary settlements (no admission of guilt).
Throughout his career as a coach, Dorrance has been known for putting aggressive players on the pitch. Santa Clara coach Jerry Smith said “I’ll go beyond aggressiveness. It’s meanness. Anson has found a way to bring that out of his players.”
In a regular season match against North Carolina, Stanford star defensive back Tierna Davidson was aggressively tackled by a North Carolina player, resulting in a broken leg that effectively ended her Stanford career.
So is the aggressive behavior that Dorrance encourages part of the sport, or is it over the top? You decide.
In the fall of 2019, Stanford visited Chapel Hill for a regular season match against North Carolina. Minutes before the start of the match, Dorrance complained to officials that Stanford’s starting goalkeeper, Katie Meyer, was wearing jewelry in her pierced ears in violation of the rules. Meyer had to be withdrawn from the line up to have the jewelry removed. She entered the game five or so minutes later.
Dorrence was acting within the rules, but what does this action say about the man? The jewelry was presumably studs left in place to maintain ear piercings. It was unobjectionable to the Stanford coaching staff and no prior opposing coach had made an issue of it. You decide.
Dorrance’s recent comments about possible conference realignment suggest an almost visceral hatred of Stanford (Stanford and California should “die on the vine” rather than be added to the ACC conference). I understand that Dorrance may be frustrated by Stanford’s recruiting successes. It is now Stanford, not North Carolina, that has the most national team players. But these sorts of comments do not flatter the man. Would you recommend that an aspiring high school soccer star play for Dorrance?
Happily, Stanford coach Paul Ratcliffe has not, and would not, make disparaging comments about the North Carolina program.
Nice background info. Thanks.