STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS!

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RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - Goose - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 12:30 PM)M T Wrote: Indeed, one of the reasons I will question a call is when the ref is blocked from seeing the contact but still makes the call.

It is undoubtedly true that many calls are made based not on what the ref actually saw but rather on the basis of what the ref believes was the "most probable" interpretation of the little he did see. Often fouls are called because the ref expects that in a given situation player A is pretty much for sure will foul player B, so he calls what he expects, not what actually happened.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - BillBradley - 04-05-2021

Officials all have bias, period. I fully admit my own in my past reffing experiences. It shows up in a number of ways:
- The studies show, across all the major sports, the influence a crowd has on the judgement of officials. It's a big part of the home field advantage
- Coaches can and do influence officials. Tara chooses not to take part in this. Classy for sure, but she could have influence if she wanted to - even in a nice way. IMO, this did come into play in the championship game as I thought Coach Barnes sidled up to the refs through little conversations, pats on the back, smiles, etc. along with giving them quizzical looks on questionable calls. Things like that do work. I also believe some coaches wield their power with the officials. Referees get a bit embarrassed and look for give back calls when Coach K gets in their face. Most would agree that Duke gets more than their fair share of the calls.
- Just my opinion, but refs can't help but be influenced by underdog teams who are playing their hearts out (like Arizona).
- etc.

I am on Paloalto's side in that I don't believe there are plans or collusion by larger powers to make games tighter, improve TV ratings, etc. However, the bias and influence that exists is formidable and I do believe it's a big reason for why games end up with (blechhh) a 18-2 free throw discrepancy.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - M T - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 11:50 AM)bl82 Wrote: Just curious: am I the only one who was surprised that Lexie was not named the MOP? I have no doubt she earned it with her contributions in all the big and little things she does in so many aspects of the game across each of our tournament games. Some of what she does is subtle and a lot of it doesn't show up in the box score, but between her competitive drive and incredible situational basketball IQ I was really impressed by her tournament (even though she has showcased all these skills during the course of the regular season)

Barring something spectacular, a priori, there were only 3 players that were going to be voted as MOP from Stanford. At least, that's the script as I heard it from the announcers. They talked up 4 players. 3 of those didn't deserve it based on the NC game. And then there was Lexie.

I think it was pretty clear that the announcers had not been watching Stanford through the season. Probably they only saw highlights. But, I think the announcers did recognize Lexie appropriately based on her play. But when it came time to vote for MOP, they wouldn't have had a nameplate already made up with her name.

No doubt that Haley had good offense. She outscored Lexie. And, much of the time she played good defense. But too often, I'd see her in no-woman's land on defense.

I would have been surprised if, but would have agreed with, Lexie being named MOP, but it wasn't going to happen. I'm not surprised that Haley won it. But Haley has a lot more room to improve to be as effective as she can be.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - martyup - 04-05-2021

Wasn't it nice to see Tara and Barnes on the sidelines of the NCG, with their calm demeanors, rather than a couple of coaches screaming at their players and the refs.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - treetop11 - 04-05-2021

(04-04-2021, 08:57 PM)BillBradley Wrote: Congrats to the Card on the Natty! You got it done, and you can call yourselves National Champions. So happy for all of the ladies!

Random game thoughts:
- After seeing Tara coach close games for years, I've concluded that she plays the odds with clock management and prioritizes it well above scoring. We got the ball with around 36 seconds left, which means if we run it all the way down, and don't even try to cut, penetrate, or do anything aggressive, the worst case is they'll have 6 seconds to score (which is where it ended up). But if we do get a shot up at the shot clock buzzer and it hits the rim, it's pretty much game over at that point. I think what she doesn't want is the other scenarios that could happen before the shot clock expires 1) Turnover and runout 2) Charge 3) Missed shot etc, etc. I've come to appreciate how she coaches down the stretch.
- What I don't understand (OMG!) is how we were somehow unable to exploit our advantage on the block. But then in the 4th, we FINALLY decide to go to Cam and Haley down inside, run some high-low action, and we score like 4 times. And then we don't go back to it! Maddening!
- I think what happened to Ki is we ended up playing 3 teams in a row (Louisville, SC, Zona) where she had supreme defenders on her plus tough help defense and she didn't have an athletic advantage. To her credit though, she didn't jack up a lot of really bad shots in tonight's game. 2-6 isn't anything to brag about, but it's wayyy better than 4-17 or something like that. Her self-control very much helped us win the game.
- How about Alyssa Jerome? 4 boards and an assist in 6 minutes off the bench. Awesome contribution.
- Anna really worked her tail off. Holding Aari to 5-20 was probably the top reason we won. Well done Anna!
- Another nice performance from Ashten. She really finished the season strong.
- Haley deserved the MOP. She raised the level of her play when we needed it most. Her and-one down the stretch was sick. I'm excited to see her continue to develop (especially the 3-point shot).
- Cam had a nice game, minus a couple of silly fouls. And even though the box score shows 3 blocks (I could swear there were more!), there were countless plays where she got her hands on balls or altered shots, including the final play of the game. If she can put in some Hanna Jump-like offseason work on her body, she could be dominant with her complete package of skills and talent. She could be the next Candace Parker, and that lady could ball.

Congrats again to the team and the future is looking bright!

All good points especially about Ki. Impt. point too because I recall early season when her shot was off, she forced things and had many misses which hurt us. It was goo she didn't force things an let others score. Her worse part was really her TO stat. UA and SC overplayed the perimeter to stop our three barrage which they did but we were smart to take advantage and beat them in the paint.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - Card Fan in OR - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 11:50 AM)bl82 Wrote: Just curious: am I the only one who was surprised that Lexie was not named the MOP? I have no doubt she earned it with her contributions in all the big and little things she does in so many aspects of the game across each of our tournament games. Some of what she does is subtle and a lot of it doesn't show up in the box score, but between her competitive drive and incredible situational basketball IQ I was really impressed by her tournament (even though she has showcased all these skills during the course of the regular season)

One a totally rational basis, I might have voted for Lexie over Haley. Two factors would likely have changed my vote. First, Haley's late scoring was clearly pivotal in our victory against Arizona and, second, I just cannot get out of my mind those 7 (?) driving layups Lexie missed yesterday. It seems like she just doesn't completely "get" how to use the backboard on those shots. I hope she tries 10,000 of those shots with someone in her way over the summer. I think Lexie is a great player--absolutely no disrespect intended--but if she can get those driving shots to fall at a significantly higher rate, she will be a scoring machine.

I almost can't believe I will only get to see Lexie and Lacie play one more year for the Cardinal.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - M T - 04-05-2021

(04-04-2021, 09:51 PM)BillBradley Wrote: If you use Google as your search engine, open Chrome and search up "Stanford Women's Basketball". When the results come up, wait a few seconds. Luv it. Thx Google :>

If you haven't done it today, go to https://gostanford.com/

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - OutsiderFan - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 01:08 PM)martyup Wrote: Wasn't it nice to see Tara and Barnes on the sidelines of the NCG, with their calm demeanors, rather than a couple of coaches screaming at their players and the refs.

I kinda fell in love with Adia Barnes watching Arizona play in the tournament. Never knew who she was until two weeks ago. Her confidence and calm was super impressive to me. And I LOVED when she huddled with the players after the UConn win and stuck up her middle finger while calling attention to the NCAA for not including the 'cats in the Final Four hype video. Players love that and will go through a wall for her.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - WBB fan - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 01:08 PM)martyup Wrote: Wasn't it nice to see Tara and Barnes on the sidelines of the NCG, with their calm demeanors, rather than a couple of coaches screaming at their players and the refs.

Yes indeed. Both exhibit a lot of class.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - fullmetal - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 12:44 PM)RuralFan Wrote: If officials are going to ignore grabbing the off ball hand of a dibbling player, or moving ones feet or hips of shoulders after setting a screen, or charging directly into a defensive player, while calling a defensive foul every time a player drives to the basket; then Arizona wins almost every time. We were lucky, but I don't think Tara will ever coach that way.

If I have any gripe, it is summed up by this. I certainly think Stanford deserved more than two FTA.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - 82 Card - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 01:33 PM)WBB fan Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 01:08 PM)martyup Wrote: Wasn't it nice to see Tara and Barnes on the sidelines of the NCG, with their calm demeanors, rather than a couple of coaches screaming at their players and the refs.

Yes indeed. Both exhibit a lot of class.

I was also impressed by the players' class. Both teams fought it out with everything they have without disrespecting the other team.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - BosCard - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 01:13 PM)Card Fan in OR Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:50 AM)bl82 Wrote: Just curious: am I the only one who was surprised that Lexie was not named the MOP? I have no doubt she earned it with her contributions in all the big and little things she does in so many aspects of the game across each of our tournament games. Some of what she does is subtle and a lot of it doesn't show up in the box score, but between her competitive drive and incredible situational basketball IQ I was really impressed by her tournament (even though she has showcased all these skills during the course of the regular season)

One a totally rational basis, I might have voted for Lexie over Haley. Two factors would likely have changed my vote. First, Haley's late scoring was clearly pivotal in our victory against Arizona and, second, I just cannot get out of my mind those 7 (?) driving layups Lexie missed yesterday. It seems like she just doesn't completely "get" how to use the backboard on those shots. I hope she tries 10,000 of those shots with someone in her way over the summer. I think Lexie is a great player--absolutely no disrespect intended--but if she can get those driving shots to fall at a significantly higher rate, she will be a scoring machine.

I almost can't believe I will only get to see Lexie and Lacie play one more year for the Cardinal.

I agree. Lexie played great defense, was aggressive on offense and was crucial to both of our victories. But you aren't going to win a MOP by shooting 4/17 and 4/13 as she did against South Carolina and Arizona. Haley took and made the big shots in the fourth quarter and deserved her MOP.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - terry - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 03:17 PM)BosCard Wrote: I agree. Lexie played great defense, was aggressive on offense and was crucial to both of our victories. But you aren't going to win a MOP by shooting 4/17 and 4/13 as she did against South Carolina and Arizona. Haley took and made the big shots in the fourth quarter and deserved her MOP.

Yes. Jones averaged 20.5 points with an excellent 68% shooting pct., and scored the winning points in both games. Hull averaged 14.0 points with just 27% shooting pct.. I think it was an easy pick to give Jones the MOP.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - Hulk01 - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 01:30 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 01:08 PM)martyup Wrote: Wasn't it nice to see Tara and Barnes on the sidelines of the NCG, with their calm demeanors, rather than a couple of coaches screaming at their players and the refs.

I kinda fell in love with Adia Barnes watching Arizona play in the tournament. Never knew who she was until two weeks ago. Her confidence and calm was super impressive to me. And I LOVED when she huddled with the players after the UConn win and stuck up her middle finger while calling attention to the NCAA for not including the 'cats in the Final Four hype video. Players love that and will go through a wall for her.

You're not aloner in this. I fell in love with Adia after our first game with the Cats this season.

(04-05-2021, 01:13 PM)Card Fan in OR Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 11:50 AM)bl82 Wrote: Just curious: am I the only one who was surprised that Lexie was not named the MOP? I have no doubt she earned it with her contributions in all the big and little things she does in so many aspects of the game across each of our tournament games. Some of what she does is subtle and a lot of it doesn't show up in the box score, but between her competitive drive and incredible situational basketball IQ I was really impressed by her tournament (even though she has showcased all these skills during the course of the regular season)

One a totally rational basis, I might have voted for Lexie over Haley. Two factors would likely have changed my vote. First, Haley's late scoring was clearly pivotal in our victory against Arizona and, second, I just cannot get out of my mind those 7 (?) driving layups Lexie missed yesterday. It seems like she just doesn't completely "get" how to use the backboard on those shots. I hope she tries 10,000 of those shots with someone in her way over the summer. I think Lexie is a great player--absolutely no disrespect intended--but if she can get those driving shots to fall at a significantly higher rate, she will be a scoring machine.

I almost can't believe I will only get to see Lexie and Lacie play one more year for the Cardinal.

I think most voters could not overlook Lexie's ,267 field goal percentage (eight for 30) in the Final Four, especially alongside Haley's 19 for 28.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - mbdude - 04-05-2021

Ashten in the 6 games
110 minutes, 52 pts, 33 rbs 16 assists, 6 to's
Not advocating for any awards just posting stats

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - Spiny_Norman - 04-05-2021

One more NCAA rant - why is there no One Shining Moment for the women's tournament? They certainly deserve it. And using that song for the women does not in any way dilute it for the men.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - CompSci87 - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 10:50 AM)crackpot Wrote:
(04-05-2021, 10:18 AM)CompSci87 Wrote: Shot blocking teams can get a lot of fouls called on them because it's an easy to see foul if you miss the ball and get the arm. Plus those are always free throws.

Body bumping teams can get the benefit of block/charge/nothing calls going the other way, and even if it doesn't, it more often than not doesn't give the opponent free throws.

I don't remember Fran getting to the line.

The image looks like the contact is only on Fran's shooting hand, which is "part of the ball" as announcers like to put it. So that one probably wasn't a foul.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - CompSci87 - 04-05-2021

(04-05-2021, 12:24 PM)oldalum Wrote: I got the impression from interviews that the triple team, and even the double team, was not specifically planned in advance (and didn't happen right away; first Lexie came over after a bit, then Brink), so I also give Lexie and Cam credit for leaving their player to help out with Aari. Great pic on the Stanford website (in the photo gallery) of the wall Aari had to shoot over. Cam might have actually blocked her view of the basket as she jumped back to shoot.

In at least one interview, Lexie said that Ki told her to go and double, once Ki saw how Arizona was playing.

Calling the defense isn't something I had thought of before as part of Ki's point guard role.

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - TheFarm07 - 04-05-2021

A little late to the party with a postgame post, but it took me a while to process everything after the victory last night.

I had been waiting for this moment since I became a fan of the team and program while I was an undergraduate more than fifteen years ago. My first heartbreak was losing to Tennessee in the Elite Eight during Nicole Powell's senior year and with every subsequent close call and missed opportunity, I couldn't wait for the moment when we were national champions.

When the time came yesterday, it was neither the intense thrill or relief I was expecting. With the amount of turnovers we had, capped by the head-scratching final possesion (the only explanation I could think of is that Tara had the Gonzaga-UCLA game fresh on her mind and did not want McDonald to become Suggs and race down the court off of a rebound or inbound play before we can set up a defense and hit the game-winning shot), it felt like we did not deserve to win the game in some ways.

In fact, I went through the motions as if we had lost. I didn't immediately check the websites and bask in the glory of victory. I had to remind myself that it didn't matter how we won, it mattered that we won. As many participants on this forum know, I often focus on the things we could have done better even in victories, anticipating that we would need to clean them up for the postseason.

And in yesterday's game, we made plenty of mistakes, but it didn't matter, we played well enough to win and you don't always play at your best. It would be nice to hit 60% from the floor and win by 50 every time you play, but not every game is like that. Sometimes you'll have to find a way to win when you are not at your best and we did that last night. We fought and perservered, amidst all of the adversity, not just in last night's game, but all season long and that's the mettle of a champion. We WON.

I wanted this for all the players, but especially for Kiana, to win in her hometown and for Anna, after all she's been through with the injuries and setbacks in her collegiate years and then re-inventing herself as a defensive beast.

I wanted this for Tara, for the 29 year drought, as she watched other coaches and teams celebrate, while she continued to work and maintain that high standard and waiting for the day when it would be for her team.

I wanted this for the whole team, who got through not only this crazy season, but this past year and overcoming all of the obstacles that came with it.

I think it will take a little more time to really have it be absorbed, but it helps to see the banners when I go to the ESPN website or Stanford sports, that we finished the year as national champions!

What a phenomenal accomplishment! Go Card!!

RE: STANFORD 54, Arizona 53; we are the CHAMPIONS! - 2006alum - 04-06-2021

I too am late to the party -- thanks to a recent death in the family on top of everything else the past year has thrown at me (and the world), this definitely felt like the rare bright spot lately.

I'm so thrilled for Tara and the team - for some reason, from the outset, this team felt like they had a championship in them. I never wanted to voice this thought out loud, but with Fudd going to UConn and both SCarolina and UConn having beyond stacked rosters starting next season, part of me thought this year really was our best shot at finally getting that third championship, and I'm sure glad we didn't squander the opportunity. And as soon as they announced the tourney would be held in San Antonio, as I remarked in one of our bball threads, it seemed like Kiana got locked in and started playing with a renewed focus. It really did feel like it was meant to be this year.

And it's almost impossible as a casual fan to appreciate all that the women's team put up with this year in terms of travel, testing, uncertainty, isolation, and upset routines. It's true that we did not play our best in the finals, and I wish Kiana hadn't dropped a stinker in her final game in a Stanford uniform in her hometown. But a win, is a win, is a win, and as we've all said all year, survive and advance. As Tara said during the post-game, no one remembers the score or how many points - they remember who won, and we did. We keep our 45-year natty streak alive. Tara is now the winningest coach in D1 Bball history. She is also the coach who has gone the longest in ANY D1 men's or women's sport between championships: 29 years! This third championship should silence all the haters and doubters who thought Tara would never be able to get over the hump, that the PAC-12 hasn't won a championship in decades, etc. etc.

So more than anything, this is about respect and desert. This team did everything to earn the respect a title conveys, and as much as any sports team I've ever followed, they deserve it. Their grit, their unselfishness on and off the court, their excellent comportment in interviews, everything. Rarely have I found a championship team more worthy of praise and appreciation.

So thank you Tara, thank you ladies, and thank you Stanford.