The CardBoard
WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season (/thread-23821.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - jk1926 - 02-19-2023

(02-19-2023, 08:17 PM)martyup Wrote:  Anyone surprised that Colorado had a player ejected today against AZ for a flagrant foul?  It was Vonley.  She wrapped her arm around Reece's neck and pulled her to the floor.  I sure wish the Pac-12 refs would recognize teams that consistently cross the line with physical play and start whistling them into compliance.  Instead, they hurt Brink's college career by calling ticky-tack fouls against her while allowing other players to mug her in the paint.

Aaronette Vonleh played her freshman season at Arizona and then entered the portal eventually landing at Colorado. She was one of many who left Arizona after last season.  Coach Adia Barnes purportedly encouraged many on the roster to find a new school.  Don’t know if Vonleh was among those in that group but her actions leading to the ejection suggest she has no lost love for Arizona and the McHale crowd….

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - chimera - 02-19-2023

I hate the too physical style of play.  It puts the officials in a bind - either call many, many fouls and turn the game into a disjointed mess plus get criticized for not being "fair" because one team gets called for more (like all teams foul equally!?) or "let them play" which is not fair to the team that wants to play basketball instead of find ways to bump, push, etc..  It also escalates things if the officials just let things go.  When one team wants to be ultra-physical and it is not being called, the other team has to up the ante to compete.  You end up with ugly basketball, which is not good for the sport or the athletes who end up beating each other up with hard fouls. or acts that should be called fouls but are not.  

The officiating needs to stop the bodying stuff, like when USC was draped all over our posts.  They are supposed to be able to put an arm bar on an opponent down low and jockey for position, but not lean on and hug the offensive player or root her out of her spot by blatant shoving.  Lots of bunnies that we see missed from posts are probably because the defender was allowed to body into them.  If defenders are allowed to do that, offensive players will then push back or lower a shoulder to compensate.  That is not a test of basketball skill anymore.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - 81alum - 02-19-2023

(02-19-2023, 08:50 PM)chimera Wrote:  I hate the too physical style of play.  It puts the officials in a bind - either call many, many fouls and turn the game into a disjointed mess plus get criticized for not being "fair" because one team gets called for more (like all teams foul equally!?) or "let them play" which is not fair to the team that wants to play basketball instead of find ways to bump, push, etc..  It also escalates things if the officials just let things go.  When one team wants to be ultra-physical and it is not being called, the other team has to up the ante to compete.  You end up with ugly basketball, which is not good for the sport or the athletes who end up beating each other up with hard fouls. or acts that should be called fouls but are not.  

The officiating needs to stop the bodying stuff, like when USC was draped all over our posts.  They are supposed to be able to put an arm bar on an opponent down low and jockey for position, but not lean on and hug the offensive player or root her out of her spot by blatant shoving.  Lots of bunnies that we see missed from posts are probably because the defender was allowed to body into them.  If defenders are allowed to do that, offensive players will then push back or lower a shoulder to compensate.  That is not a test of basketball skill anymore.
Yes!  Tara used to call it "Sumo wrestling."  Posts ought to be lithe, tall players who can move, pivot, with the dexterity to finish.  They are increasingly becoming offensive guards and tackles.

Really, who among us fans really prefers to see a low-scoring game dominated by pushing and shoving?  Who prefers to see a game with manifold assists, players who are light on their feet pivoting around and under the basket?

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - BobK - 02-19-2023

The average number of fouls called on todays Pac 12 games was 35. That’s a lot.
Why our game had just 19 is a mystery

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - PVTree - 02-20-2023

(02-19-2023, 08:17 PM)martyup Wrote:  Anyone surprised that Colorado had a player ejected today against AZ for a flagrant foul?  It was Vonley.  She wrapped her arm around Reece's neck and pulled her to the floor.  I sure wish the Pac-12 refs would recognize teams that consistently cross the line with physical play and start whistling them into compliance.  Instead, they hurt Brink's college career by calling ticky-tack fouls against her while allowing other players to mug her in the paint.

Reese!  ; ^)

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - martyup - 02-20-2023

(02-20-2023, 03:18 AM)PVTree Wrote:  
(02-19-2023, 08:17 PM)martyup Wrote:  Anyone surprised that Colorado had a player ejected today against AZ for a flagrant foul?  It was Vonley.  She wrapped her arm around Reece's neck and pulled her to the floor.  I sure wish the Pac-12 refs would recognize teams that consistently cross the line with physical play and start whistling them into compliance.  Instead, they hurt Brink's college career by calling ticky-tack fouls against her while allowing other players to mug her in the paint.

Reese!  ; ^)

I must have been hungry when I wrote that.

[Image: 812f5aefda4067eb5a0e3d43b06f004b.gif]

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - CompSci87 - 02-20-2023

(02-20-2023, 10:59 AM)martyup Wrote:  
(02-20-2023, 03:18 AM)PVTree Wrote:  
(02-19-2023, 08:17 PM)martyup Wrote:  Anyone surprised that Colorado had a player ejected today against AZ for a flagrant foul?  It was Vonley.  She wrapped her arm around Reece's neck and pulled her to the floor.  I sure wish the Pac-12 refs would recognize teams that consistently cross the line with physical play and start whistling them into compliance.  Instead, they hurt Brink's college career by calling ticky-tack fouls against her while allowing other players to mug her in the paint.

Reese!  ; ^)

I must have been hungry when I wrote that.

[Image: 812f5aefda4067eb5a0e3d43b06f004b.gif]

But the peanut butter cup is spelled Reese too...

I guess you were so hungry you could barely spell. ;-)

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - OCcardinal - 02-20-2023

(02-18-2023, 03:33 PM)martyup Wrote:  Clark is clearly the best player in WBB
Clearly?  Per HerHoopsStats Clark's offensive rating is 98th percentile and her defensive rating is 77th percentile.  Brink's ratings are 95th percentile offense and 100th percentile defense. Aliyah Boston is currently 100th percentile is both analytics, as is Angel Reese.

And it's not like high scoring guards can't have good or even great defensive ratings. In Sabrina Ionescu's 2019-20 POY season for Oregon, she had a 100th percentile offensive rating and 92% defensive rating. And for Paige Bueckers' POY freshman season she was 100th percentile for offensive rating and 99th percentile for defensive rating.

I'm not saying Clark isn't great or that she won't win POY. I just don't share your view that she is "clearly" the #1 best overall player in WBB.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - martyup - 02-20-2023

I think it's clear.

Quote:Clark leads Division I women’s basketball in scoring at 26.2 points per game and has [9] career triple-doubles, including four this season.

Quote:She has four triple-doubles with 25 or more points, which is the most in D-I history, according to ESPN. She’s also the only D-I player in the past 20 seasons to have four straight games of at least 20 points and 10 assists.

Quote:In posting a triple-double against a No. 2-ranked team, she joined Dwyane Wade as the only players in men’s or women’s Division I history with a triple-double against a top-two opponent since 1999-2000.

Quote:Through the 2021–22 season, the career record for triple-doubles in Division I men's basketball is held by BYU's Kyle Collinsworth with 12. On the women's Division I side, Sabrina Ionescu of Oregon holds the record with 26. The only active player with 5 or more triple-doubles is Caitlin Clark of Iowa, with 9 through February 5, 2023.


RE: WBB: AZ Vvs Utah - M T - 02-20-2023

(02-19-2023, 04:00 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:  Wow, USC fouls Curry taking a shot with about 0.4 seconds left and the game tied.
Whoa. Refs decided the foul is not a foul because the illegal contact occurred after time expired. Kyle Bacon, ace ref, strikes again? So it goes to OT
I didn't see Bacon's ruling re the foul at the end of the fourth quarter.  It is hard for me to imagine any argument about whether the foul was COMMITTED (i.e. occurred) before the end of the game, only whether it was CALLED (signaled) before the end of the game.  But whether the official was slow to call it doesn't matter.
Quote:Rule 11. Section 2. Article 1. a. 3. Determine whether a foul occurred before time expired on the game clock. When replay shows that the foul occurred before time expired on the game clock, the official shall put the exact time back on the game clock as to when the foul occurred.

ADMINISTRATION: In (a), the officials shall determine when time expired by the reading of zeroes on the game clock. When the game clock is not visible, the officials shall use the red light/red LED light(s) on the backboard or the LED lights at the scorers' table. When the red light/red LED light(s) are not visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be used. In (a.3), the officials shall determine when the foul occurred based on the illegal contact and not the official’s signal.


RE: WBB: AZ Vvs Utah - ca245 - 02-20-2023

(02-20-2023, 04:45 PM)M T Wrote:  
(02-19-2023, 04:00 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:  Wow, USC fouls Curry taking a shot with about 0.4 seconds left and the game tied.
Whoa. Refs decided the foul is not a foul because the illegal contact occurred after time expired. Kyle Bacon, ace ref, strikes again? So it goes to OT
I didn't see Bacon's ruling re the foul at the end of the fourth quarter.  It is hard for me to imagine any argument about whether the foul was COMMITTED (i.e. occurred) before the end of the game, only whether it was CALLED (signaled) before the end of the game.  But whether the official was slow to call it doesn't matter.
Quote:Rule 11. Section 2. Article 1. a. 3. Determine whether a foul occurred before time expired on the game clock. When replay shows that the foul occurred before time expired on the game clock, the official shall put the exact time back on the game clock as to when the foul occurred.

ADMINISTRATION: In (a), the officials shall determine when time expired by the reading of zeroes on the game clock. When the game clock is not visible, the officials shall use the red light/red LED light(s) on the backboard or the LED lights at the scorers' table. When the red light/red LED light(s) are not visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be used. In (a.3), the officials shall determine when the foul occurred based on the illegal contact and not the official’s signal.
Wasn’t there the same issue at the end of a MBB game last week involving Duke?
Edited to add link:
End of Duke-UVA fame

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - CompSci87 - 02-20-2023

I believe I remember the announcer saying that the illegal contact had been ruled to be after time expired. The announcer could have been wrong or I could have misheard, of course. If that was correct, I guess the contact before the buzzer was ruled incidental on review. Strange ruling, though.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - M T - 02-21-2023

(02-20-2023, 07:35 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:  I believe I remember the announcer saying that the illegal contact had been ruled to be after time expired. The announcer could have been wrong or I could have misheard, of course. If that was correct, I guess the contact before the buzzer was ruled incidental on review. Strange ruling, though.

As I watched the replay, I  thought maybe the female ref who raised her hand was just signalling the end of the quarter.  Her signal for a foul a few seconds earlier was different (bent arm rather than straight, quickly signaling who the foul was on).  Here, she raised her hand coincident with the end of time and she held it steady and much straighter.

Had I not heard the announcers say that the official was coming over to explain it, and then we hear a female voice claim the foul was after time expired (while we see the other 2 officials at the scorer's table), I would have believed the announcers misunderstood.

In the video replay you see the official clock showing 0.4 during the time of the arm-to-arm contact but this was apparently not called.  But from about 0.3 to 0.0, there was the body contact that was what the official called.  The on-screen clock shown in one view is not official and is 0.1 behind the official clock.  Interestingly, you see the official had started raising her hand when that unofficial clock still shows 0.1.  If she witnessed a foul that occurred after the official clock expired, she must have both extremely fast reactions AND powerful muscles to move her arm that much in at most 0.05 seconds.

[Image: 0-49-ez.jpg]  0.4 transitioning to 0.3. End of arm-to-arm contact and block.
[Image: 0-2-high.jpg] 0.2 Body contact has begun.
[Image: 0-2-ez.jpg] 0.2 Body contact has begun
[Image: 0-19-ez.jpg]  0.2 transitioning to 0.1
[Image: 0-1-ez.jpg]  0.1  Body contact is almost over. Fouled player is separating from fouler.
[Image: 0-1-high.jpg] 0.1
[Image: 0-09-high.jpg]  0.0 to -0.1 Ref has started raising her arm.

I would rule that the illegal contact occurred at 0.2.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - PVTree - 02-21-2023

Yukon trailing by 4 with 37 seconds to go and St. John's with possession. Can Yukon pull it out? 98.3% win probability for the Johnnies.
65-60, Yukon ball, 35 seconds left.
65-62 Johnnies, 31 second to go.
67-62, 30 seconds
67-64, 23 seconds
68-64, 7 seconds
It's over... Down goes Yukon at home 69-64.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - 81alum - 02-21-2023

(02-21-2023, 06:57 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Yukon trailing by 4 with 37 seconds to go and St. John's with possession. Can Yukon pull it out? 98.3% win probability for the Johnnies.
65-60, Yukon ball, 35 seconds left.
65-62 Johnnies, 31 second to go.
67-62, 30 seconds
67-64, 23 seconds
68-64, 7 seconds
It's over... Down goes Yukon at home 69-64.
Wow.  The aura of indomitability has faded in Storrs.
Meanwhile, Maryland is currently crushing Iowa 64-40.  I'm not watching.  Anyone know what is going on there?  Clark 3/9 halfway through the 3rd, so far.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - WBB fan - 02-21-2023

UConn was a 22.5 point favorite in the game, but tight game all the way, with St John leading most of the time, except for a surge by UConn in the 3rd quarter. Biggest lead by UConn was 8 in 3rd, 9 by St Johns early in the 2nd.

Does this put UConn in jeopardy for a #1 seed? Unlikely to be replaced by Iowa, which is getting clobbered by Maryland right now, up 71-45 near end of 3rd quarter. So maybe Maryland or LSU? At any rate, I don't like UConn as a #2 if there is a chance they would be in the same bracket as the Card at #1. But really, at this point, it's all speculation!

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - mbdude - 02-21-2023

Maryland can't miss, iowa can't hit. Very fast paced game

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - WBB fan - 02-21-2023

(02-21-2023, 07:12 PM)81alum Wrote:  
(02-21-2023, 06:57 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Yukon trailing by 4 with 37 seconds to go and St. John's with possession. Can Yukon pull it out? 98.3% win probability for the Johnnies.
65-60, Yukon ball, 35 seconds left.
65-62 Johnnies, 31 second to go.
67-62, 30 seconds
67-64, 23 seconds
68-64, 7 seconds
It's over... Down goes Yukon at home 69-64.
Wow.  The aura of indomitability has faded in Storrs.
Meanwhile, Maryland is currently crushing Iowa 64-40.  I'm not watching.  Anyone know what is going on there?  Clark 3/9 halfway through the 3rd, so far.

AT end of 3rd, Clark only has 10 points, 5 rebounds, and has 5 turnovers. And Czinano only has 4 points. Maryland shooting much better, also has 13 threes to Iowa's 7, and a slim rebounding edge. And many more turnovers for Iowa -- in short, Maryland is taking it to Iowa on nearly every front.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - Jskass - 02-21-2023

Eye test says elevate MD to 4 then LSU 5 — after that who really knows? Iowa looks as suspected - hold Clark and they’re not a top ten team. Also have to give Brenda credit after losing Owusu and Reese.

RE: WBB: Other Teams 22-23 season - M T - 02-21-2023

(02-21-2023, 06:57 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Yukon trailing by 4 with 37 seconds to go and St. John's...
It's over... Down goes Yukon at home 69-64.

Tara is leading by double digits.