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Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Mick - 12-15-2016

(12-15-2016, 09:10 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=eric link=topic=16291.msg182647#msg182647 date=1481857855]
[quote author=fullmetal link=topic=16291.msg182646#msg182646 date=1481857406]
Well, I think the Holiday Bowl would be inviting the next best Big Ten team if Minn decided not to show up...

except that creates a domino effect of then replacing that team.....
[/quote]

The real problem is that the only B1G team not in a bowl is like 3-9.
[/quote]

5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Mick - 12-15-2016

(12-15-2016, 09:10 PM)stupac2 link Wrote:[quote author=eric link=topic=16291.msg182647#msg182647 date=1481857855]
[quote author=fullmetal link=topic=16291.msg182646#msg182646 date=1481857406]
Well, I think the Holiday Bowl would be inviting the next best Big Ten team if Minn decided not to show up...

except that creates a domino effect of then replacing that team.....
[/quote]

The real problem is that the only B1G team not in a bowl is like 3-9.
[/quote]

5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - martyup - 12-15-2016

They issue demands, including no retaliation for their actions that could cost the university millions of  dollars?  The coach should issue his own demands -- if you don't play you are off the team and lose your scholarship.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - martyup - 12-15-2016

They issue demands, including no retaliation for their actions that could cost the university millions of  dollars?  The coach should issue his own demands -- if you don't play you are off the team and lose your scholarship.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - martyup - 12-15-2016

When players decide that they should be the arbiters of player discipline,  the coach has lost control of his team.  This needs to be nipped in the bud.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - martyup - 12-15-2016

When players decide that they should be the arbiters of player discipline,  the coach has lost control of his team.  This needs to be nipped in the bud.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - BostonCard - 12-15-2016

(12-15-2016, 09:31 PM)Mick link Wrote:5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

I wonder what would have happened if 5-7 Cal had been next in line.

BC

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - BostonCard - 12-15-2016

(12-15-2016, 09:31 PM)Mick link Wrote:5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

I wonder what would have happened if 5-7 Cal had been next in line.

BC

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Phogge - 12-16-2016

Invite the Domers despite 4 wins. They could pack the stadium with subway alumni.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Phogge - 12-16-2016

Invite the Domers despite 4 wins. They could pack the stadium with subway alumni.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 82lsju - 12-16-2016

(12-15-2016, 11:48 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16291.msg182654#msg182654 date=1481862662]
5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

I wonder what would have happened if 5-7 ןɐɔ had been next in line.

BC
[/quote]

NIU fall semester ended on 10 Dec so getting the players back and practicing and to a game on Dec 27 would be a lot of logistics fun for someone.  I wonder it they would waive the required ticket purchase for NIU (or whoever a replacement might be).

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 82lsju - 12-16-2016

(12-15-2016, 11:48 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=16291.msg182654#msg182654 date=1481862662]
5-7 Northern Illinois is the next team in line if the Gophers don't play.

I wonder what would have happened if 5-7 ןɐɔ had been next in line.

BC
[/quote]

NIU fall semester ended on 10 Dec so getting the players back and practicing and to a game on Dec 27 would be a lot of logistics fun for someone.  I wonder it they would waive the required ticket purchase for NIU (or whoever a replacement might be).

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - FarmBoy - 12-16-2016

I imagine MN is still on the hook for the ticket purchases. THey probably signed some form of contract when they accepted their bid. Perhaps the Holiday Bowl will allow them to offset that quota with whatever number of tickets are sold to the team that replaces MN, if that happens.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - FarmBoy - 12-16-2016

I imagine MN is still on the hook for the ticket purchases. THey probably signed some form of contract when they accepted their bid. Perhaps the Holiday Bowl will allow them to offset that quota with whatever number of tickets are sold to the team that replaces MN, if that happens.

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Farm93 - 12-16-2016

(12-16-2016, 08:28 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:I imagine MN is still on the hook for the ticket purchases. THey probably signed some form of contract when they accepted their bid. Perhaps the Holiday Bowl will allow them to offset that quota with whatever number of tickets are sold to the team that replaces MN, if that happens.
Doubt that would happen.  I would expect that the Holiday Bowl would need to give MASSIVE financial assistance to Northern Illinois if they are called to come down this close to the bowl game.  And the Holiday Bowl would have big losses related to all kinds of promotional material that features Minnesota.

If anything, should Minnesota back out I would expect the University of Minnesota to provide compensation to the Holiday Bowl not the other way around. 

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - Farm93 - 12-16-2016

(12-16-2016, 08:28 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:I imagine MN is still on the hook for the ticket purchases. THey probably signed some form of contract when they accepted their bid. Perhaps the Holiday Bowl will allow them to offset that quota with whatever number of tickets are sold to the team that replaces MN, if that happens.
Doubt that would happen.  I would expect that the Holiday Bowl would need to give MASSIVE financial assistance to Northern Illinois if they are called to come down this close to the bowl game.  And the Holiday Bowl would have big losses related to all kinds of promotional material that features Minnesota.

If anything, should Minnesota back out I would expect the University of Minnesota to provide compensation to the Holiday Bowl not the other way around. 

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 82lsju - 12-16-2016

reported yesterday

The Huskies would "likely play" in the game if a decision could be reached in the next 48 hours [so sometime on Saturday], a source told ESPN. Among the challenges for NIU, a source said, would be getting its student-athletes to the San Diego bowl since NIU's commencement was last weekend and some student-athletes have already left campus. Other challenges would be having enough practices and preparation time to prepare for Washington State.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/sources-niu-play-holiday-bowl-minnesota-boycotts/story?id=44228853

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 82lsju - 12-16-2016

reported yesterday

The Huskies would "likely play" in the game if a decision could be reached in the next 48 hours [so sometime on Saturday], a source told ESPN. Among the challenges for NIU, a source said, would be getting its student-athletes to the San Diego bowl since NIU's commencement was last weekend and some student-athletes have already left campus. Other challenges would be having enough practices and preparation time to prepare for Washington State.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/sources-niu-play-holiday-bowl-minnesota-boycotts/story?id=44228853

Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 81alum - 12-16-2016

Listening to the players at the press conference, I had to be impressed with the integrity and motives of the rest of the team.  Whether right or wrong, they believe an injustice was done to their team mates and they have unified and rallied around them.  Unlike most people who only talk and fail to act, the players have put their bowl game and their scholarships on the line.  That takes courage.

But this looks to me like a tragedy in the making.  If indeed those 10 suspended players deserve their discipline, then I can't see the University giving in.  It also has to take a principled stance.  And if that means pulling out of the bowl and removing the scholarships for the entire team and starting a new team, then that might be what it has to do.  I imagine Minnesota would receive very high praise for taking a principled stance along those lines.  It would take years to recover.

At the core of the dispute is whether a university can discipline students whose behavior was deemed not worthy of prosecution.  Can Universities have lower standards of evidence or higher standards of behavior than the law?  Of course they can.  The fact that a prosecutor felt that he could not prove to a jury that the act was non consensual has nothing to do with the University's codes of ethics.  For example, a football player can be suspended for not showing up to a practice or for talking back to a coach, and those are obviously not offenses that a prosecutor would bring before a court of law.  So, do multiple teammates having sequential semi-public sex with a woman qualify for discipline, regardless of whether she consented?  Of course--any responsible person would recognize the dangers of the situation and high likelihood of it ending badly.  Whether or not it was a violation of the law, it was clearly a gross error in judgment and it did wind up having very negative consequences for many people.

So...I see this ending badly, either way.



Re: Ugly Holiday Bowl situation - 81alum - 12-16-2016

Listening to the players at the press conference, I had to be impressed with the integrity and motives of the rest of the team.  Whether right or wrong, they believe an injustice was done to their team mates and they have unified and rallied around them.  Unlike most people who only talk and fail to act, the players have put their bowl game and their scholarships on the line.  That takes courage.

But this looks to me like a tragedy in the making.  If indeed those 10 suspended players deserve their discipline, then I can't see the University giving in.  It also has to take a principled stance.  And if that means pulling out of the bowl and removing the scholarships for the entire team and starting a new team, then that might be what it has to do.  I imagine Minnesota would receive very high praise for taking a principled stance along those lines.  It would take years to recover.

At the core of the dispute is whether a university can discipline students whose behavior was deemed not worthy of prosecution.  Can Universities have lower standards of evidence or higher standards of behavior than the law?  Of course they can.  The fact that a prosecutor felt that he could not prove to a jury that the act was non consensual has nothing to do with the University's codes of ethics.  For example, a football player can be suspended for not showing up to a practice or for talking back to a coach, and those are obviously not offenses that a prosecutor would bring before a court of law.  So, do multiple teammates having sequential semi-public sex with a woman qualify for discipline, regardless of whether she consented?  Of course--any responsible person would recognize the dangers of the situation and high likelihood of it ending badly.  Whether or not it was a violation of the law, it was clearly a gross error in judgment and it did wind up having very negative consequences for many people.

So...I see this ending badly, either way.