Could D be undervalued? - Printable Version

Could D be undervalued? - Printable Version

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RE: Could D be undervalued? - lex24 - 08-20-2018

My bad. And me, also. Jackson did contribute. But not particularly notably.

quote="SamuelMcF" pid='227740' dateline='1534173035']

(08-13-2018, 07:49 AM)lex24 Wrote: My concerns. D line - one returner that contributed much last year. Swann. Rest are fairly green.

I hope Dylan Jackson, who started the entirety of last year at DE and contributed 36 tackles, uses your oversight as fuel.
[/quote]

RE: Could D be undervalued? - Hurlburt88 - 08-20-2018

The news from yesterday that DWP is in a walking boot is not thrilling . . . heal quickly all ye wounded!

RE: Could D be undervalued? - lex24 - 08-20-2018

Been a long time since I went to a practice. Went all the time as a yute. It’s next to impossible to get a read on the overall product - offense vs defense - from practice. Individuals you can get some read : although I remember back to the Benjamin Cordova days. Cordova looked physically like the second coming of Jim Plunkett. Big strong armed guy. Benjamin with his skinny legs and sleepy eyes didn’t look like much. Until the ball left his hand. What a beautiful pass he threw.

My most memorable Stanford practice was an early practice when Elway was a Frosh. Fairly early on the QB’s were throwing deep balls. Schonert Laufenberg and Grayson Rogers would all throw nice 40 yard balls with the receivers running under the looping throws. Elway would Fire a 40 yard bullet. The crowd audibly gasped Laufenberg and Rogers transferred a couple days later . Laufenberg to Indiana - where he went on to be a top flight Big 10 QB. Rogers to Pacific. Schonert had a nice NFL career. That Elway kid got branded as a great individual player that couldn’t win. Courtesy of Paul Wiggin. Then went on to be the winningest QB in NFL history to that point. Taking 3 average teams to SB. And then finally winning 2 as his skills were diminishing.

I always thought if he played for the Niners with Walsh they would have won about 7.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - Mick - 08-20-2018

(08-20-2018, 07:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Been a long time since I went to a practice. Went all the time as a yute. It’s next to impossible to get a read on the overall product - offense vs defense - from practice. Individuals you can get some read : although I remember back to the Benjamin Cordova days. Cordova looked physically like the second coming of Jim Plunkett. Big strong armed guy. Benjamin with his skinny legs and sleepy eyes didn’t look like much. Until the ball left his hand. What a beautiful pass he threw.

My most memorable Stanford practice was an early practice when Elway was a Frosh. Fairly early on the QB’s were throwing deep balls. Schonert Laufenberg and Grayson Rogers would all throw nice 40 yard balls with the receivers running under the looping throws. Elway would Fire a 40 yard bullet. The crowd audibly gasped Laufenberg and Rogers transferred a couple days later . Laufenberg to Indiana - where he went on to be a top flight Big 10 QB. Rogers to Pacific. Schonert had a nice NFL career. That Elway kid got branded as a great individual player that couldn’t win. Courtesy of Paul Wiggin. Then went on to be the winningest QB in NFL history to that point. Taking 3 average teams to SB. And then finally winning 2 as his skills were diminishing.

I always thought if he played for the Niners with Walsh they would have won about 7.

Laufenberg was in the NFL for eight seasons, typically as a #3 QB. Only had significant play in two of the eight seasons, but still an NFL QB.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - BostonCard - 08-20-2018

(08-20-2018, 07:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Been a long time since I went to a practice. Went all the time as a yute. It’s next to impossible to get a read on the overall product - offense vs defense - from practice. Individuals you can get some read : although I remember back to the Benjamin Cordova days. Cordova looked physically like the second coming of Jim Plunkett. Big strong armed guy. Benjamin with his skinny legs and sleepy eyes didn’t look like much. Until the ball left his hand. What a beautiful pass he threw.

My most memorable Stanford practice was an early practice when Elway was a Frosh. Fairly early on the QB’s were throwing deep balls. Schonert Laufenberg and Grayson Rogers would all throw nice 40 yard balls with the receivers running under the looping throws. Elway would Fire a 40 yard bullet. The crowd audibly gasped Laufenberg and Rogers transferred a couple days later . Laufenberg to Indiana - where he went on to be a top flight Big 10 QB. Rogers to Pacific. Schonert had a nice NFL career. That Elway kid got branded as a great individual player that couldn’t win. Courtesy of Paul Wiggin. Then went on to be the winningest QB in NFL history to that point. Taking 3 average teams to SB. And then finally winning 2 as his skills were diminishing.

I always thought if he played for the Niners with Walsh they would have won about 7.

I remember watching Luck in the spring game after his redshirt freshman year. He was nailing 40 yard passes right on target and it was immediately apparent that he had a talent (in terms of arm strength and accuracy) that I had never seen at Stanford (I wasn't around for Elway), and he was handily better than guys like Stenstrom, Husak, Edwards, Fasani, or Lewis in terms of arm strength, accuracy or both.

BC

RE: Could D be undervalued? - qwerty49 - 08-20-2018

(08-20-2018, 04:14 AM)fullmetal Wrote: We won't get a real test until $C.

I know what you mean, but that is the kind of dangerous thinking that has led to the Northwestern and SDSU debacles in recent years.

Every game is a real test!

RE: Could D be undervalued? - lex24 - 08-20-2018

And first games are often sloppy and weird. Which is why I wish they scheduled Rice again.... (No idea why the bolded text)

(08-20-2018, 10:54 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(08-20-2018, 04:14 AM)fullmetal Wrote: We won't get a real test until $C.

I know what you mean, but that is the kind of dangerous thinking that has led to the Northwestern and SDSU debacles in recent years.

Every game is a real test!

RE: Could D be undervalued? - Redrum - 08-21-2018

"My most memorable Stanford practice was an early practice when Elway was a Frosh. Fairly early on the QB’s were throwing deep balls. Schonert Laufenberg and Grayson Rogers would all throw nice 40 yard balls with the receivers running under the looping throws. Elway would Fire a 40 yard bullet. The crowd audibly gasped Laufenberg and Rogers transferred a couple days later . Laufenberg to Indiana - where he went on to be a top flight Big 10 QB. Rogers to Pacific. "

Just checking this factoid. Did they really transfer out that quickly (give or take a few days) ?

RE: Could D be undervalued? - BobK - 08-21-2018

My most memorable practice was John Ralston in Jack Curtice our and Ralston with his first recruiting class. Watching New QB Dave Lewis throwing his bullets.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - ChicagoCard - 08-22-2018

(08-21-2018, 08:09 AM)BobK Wrote: My most memorable practice was John Ralston in Jack Curtice our and Ralston with his first recruiting class. Watching New QB Dave Lewis throwing his bullets.

Wow, so are you saying that was '63 or '64... What did the uniforms look like back then?

RE: Could D be undervalued? - BobK - 08-22-2018

White or Red. Lol

RE: Could D be undervalued? - 82lsju - 08-22-2018

(08-20-2018, 07:56 AM)lex24 Wrote: Laufenberg to Indiana - where he went on to be a top flight Big 10 QB.

Laufenberg accepted a football scholarship from Stanford University, where Bill Walsh was the head coach at the time. He was redshirted as a freshman behind Steve Dils. The next year John Elway enrolled at the school, so Laufenberg decided to transfer to the University of Missouri after being listed third-string on the depth chart. At the time, Missouri had just implemented the veer offense and Phil Bradley was the starting quarterback, so he opted to transfer at the end of his first semester to Los Angeles Pierce College near his home.[1]

In 1980, Laufenberg passed for 1,590 yards and received offers from Big Ten Conference schools. He accepted a scholarship from head coach Lee Corso at Indiana University, where he became a two-year starter at quarterback.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Laufenberg

RE: Could D be undervalued? - ChicagoCard - 08-22-2018

(08-22-2018, 01:22 PM)BobK Wrote: White or Red. Lol

Ah yeah, and not much else going on. Numbers on the helmets?

RE: Could D be undervalued? - OutsiderFan - 08-26-2018

At the risk of again talking about why Stanford's defense might be underrated in 2018...

Anderson was recently interviewed and brought up two names most people here haven't talked about much, as putting themselves in position to have a role this season, and another who seems likely to play as a True Frosh. In my first post in this thread I mentioned how there will be young guys who step up in camp, even possibly walk-ons. Throw in Gabe Reid and Paulson Adebo, and there are five guys who didn't play in 2017 who look poised to make impacts in 2018. Will they provide enough to elevate the defense's performance to be in the running for a Pac-12 championship? We'll see, but here they are:

OLB Thunder Keck
Here is the walk-on making a push. Anderson said he is really doing a great job, and given the injury to Robinson, he's been given an opportunity and taking full advantage. Stanford has plenty of OLBs, so if a walk-on (with one of the greatest names in college football) is playing well enough to get in with the 2-deep, that's impressive. But what's amazing here is Keck isn't some 4th or 5th year player who is finally getting a shot. He's a RS Frosh. Walk-on RS Frosh RARELY make playing rotations on Power 5 teams. So that tells you something about his ability.

Safety Stuart Head
Loved his high school highlight reel. Plays with fearlessness and physicality. He redshirted in 2017, but I didn't really here much about him through Spring. If he is making a push to get in the rotation at Safety as a RS Frosh, he must have made a big leap in August. When Head was recruited there was question about if he might ultimately move to OLB. Apparently not, but a 6-4 Safety with long arms is always a a nice plus.

OLB Gabe Reid
By now everyone reading this is probably familiar with him, but this is exactly the type of newcomer who can make a big difference. Stanford was miserable on 3rd down defense in 2017, ranking #102 in FBS. While part of this is a function of having a terrible run defense, this number was also so poor in large measure do to lack of outside pass rushing. If Reid can provide a better pass rush component, the D will improve in 2018.

CB Paulson Adebo
Can anyone remember a RS Frosh stepping into start who engendered more confidence, this side of Andrew Luck? Adebo isn't a new name, but he will be starting opposite Holder. Nobody seems to bat an eye, especially Anderson, who pretty much raves about him. This is the type of newcomer who can improve the defense given his ascension on the depth chart as a RS Frosh. Perhaps Meeks won't be missed much?

DE Thomas Booker
When I first saw Booker's highlight reel when Stanford was reported to be recruiting him, I was sold. He made an interception in the End Zone as a DE. The kid is an athlete. He was the guy in the 2018 class I thought had the best shot at playing meaningful snaps as a True Frosh. And low and behold, this looks like the case, as Anderson is saying very positive things that indicate he will be in the DL rotation.

All of these guys are either RS or True Frosh who have stepped up and made an impact over other guys. It's always a good sign when younger players who haven't played beat out older players. Coaches favor experience, so when younger players ascend, it usually means they are pretty darn good.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - OutsiderFan - 09-09-2018

If you look back at the original post in this thread, my assumption was Stanford's DL and defense would both be better in 2018 than 2017. After two games, look at the following:

Stanford is #3 in the FBS in Points allowed (and the #2 Power 5 team to Iowa who hasn't played team as good as Stanford has)
Stanford is is #3 in sacks (I don't know how they only have 9 officially, because I counted more than 2 against USC and they had 7 vs. SDSU)
Stanford is yielding 3.57 per rush (a full yard better than 2017, and #53 in FBS)
Stanford is #25 in Pass Efficiency D

When you consider they are doing this while yielding 40% 3rd down conversions (which is terrible), there seems to be room for improvement.

Let me point out something many folks reading this might have missed. On 3rd and 2 with 10:46 left, USC ran Carr but he was stuffed by Dylan Jackson (who might have had his best game of his Stanford career, btw). On the play, DWP was at NT. The only reason this stop was made was because DWP commanded a double team and he wasn't pushed out of the way. This allowed Jackson to get inside to make the tackle. To me, that was the greatest play I saw all night.

Not only is there evidence the DL and defense was being undervalued, but it actually seems as though it can be better than even I thought was possible.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - Langdude - 09-09-2018

Does anyone else from SoCal think "Department of Water and Power" whenever they see "DWP"? For that reason, I nominate "The Department" as DWP's nickname. :)

-m.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - pcgoode - 09-09-2018

Hats off to you OF - you were definitely one of the first to call this. I am becoming more convinced you are correct. I think we will know more after the Oregon game. They seem to have a fairly balanced attack with a good OL, and we will playing in Eugene.

(09-09-2018, 08:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: If you look back at the original post in this thread, my assumption was Stanford's DL and defense would both be better in 2018 than 2017. After two games, look at the following:

Stanford is #3 in the FBS in Points allowed (and the #2 Power 5 team to Iowa who hasn't played team as good as Stanford has)
Stanford is is #3 in sacks (I don't know how they only have 9 officially, because I counted more than 2 against USC and they had 7 vs. SDSU)
Stanford is yielding 3.57 per rush (a full yard better than 2017, and #53 in FBS)
Stanford is #25 in Pass Efficiency D

When you consider they are doing this while yielding 40% 3rd down conversions (which is terrible), there seems to be room for improvement.

Let me point out something many folks reading this might have missed. On 3rd and 2 with 10:46 left, USC ran Carr but he was stuffed by Dylan Jackson (who might have had his best game of his Stanford career, btw). On the play, DWP was at NT. The only reason this stop was made was because DWP commanded a double team and he wasn't pushed out of the way. This allowed Jackson to get inside to make the tackle. To me, that was the greatest play I saw all night.

Not only is there evidence the DL and defense was being undervalued, but it actually seems as though it can be better than even I thought was possible.

RE: Could D be undervalued? - Goose - 09-09-2018

(09-09-2018, 08:50 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Not only is there evidence the DL and defense was being undervalued, but it actually seems as though it can be better than even I thought was possible.

I think you were absolutely correct that the defense, particularly the DL is turning out to be better than most of us feared it would be. It is truly an example of a team effort producing better results than a single individual star.
That said, the SC offensive line has not been good this year. We still have not played against a really "top level" line. However, what we do know by now is that the DL is not a disaster. It is at least serviceable, and maybe much better than that. That is probably enough to take us to lots of wins. Oregon will pose a different kind of challenge because of their scheme. However, we do have enough speed at linebacker to match up well against their offense.
ND and Washington will be much more challenging tests of the DL. Right now, Wimbush has been ineffective in the air and great on the ground. By the time we play ND, either they will be more balanced or Wimbush will be out injured. In any case, stopping the run appears to be critical against ND in that it is all they seem to have right now. Washington, whatever their faults, is much better balanced. That will be a real test.