Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - Printable Version
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RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - JPR36 - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:06 AM)gocard14 Wrote: Adding to my halftime thoughts from earlier:
1. Amazing game from the defense, who only got stronger as the game went on. The 4-6 yard runs seemed to turn to 1-3 yard runs as the game went on, usually the opposite is true. As others have noted, last years D relied on the efforts of a few stars, this year it seems like we're ketting key contributions across the board.
2. The front 7 play, with a few early exceptions, was excellent. Okereke and Barton (and Branch) have really improved from last year and are playing at a high level and the D-line is doing a better job at keeping them clean. The statline is much more how our defense is supposed to look, with ILBs raking in the tackles, rather then last year where Phillips and the safeties were doing much of the work. The pass rush was excellent, with pressure coming from multiple players and doing a great job of rushing as a team and collapsing the pocket without leaving running lanes, with the exception of JT's one houdini escape from Swann.
3. The DBs did a great job in coverage, Adebo, Holder, Antoine and Edwards all looked great in the spots where I saw them. The officials were letting them play, and they did a good job of playing aggressively without overt interference.
4. We got hosed by the refs in this game. I'm fine (and prefer) them letting DBs play physical, but the no call on tackling JJAW out of bounds was ridiculous. We got stuck with a bunch of questionable holding calls that didn't seem to be called both ways. A few of those go our way and we're looking at more points on the board.
5. The offense looked great at times, but needs to stop shooting itself in the foot. Too many drives featured a few first downs or a big play followed by a bad penalty or a big tackle for loss. The two delay of games after the big run by Bryce was particularly egregious.
6. KJ is the real deal. He was poised in the pocket, moved well, accurate, and made good and timely reads. We will go far if he keeps playing this way.
7. The play calling was great in the first half, less so in the second. Too many runs up the middle when USC was stacking the ILBs over the A-gaps, just begging for plays like the fake-dive pitch that resulted in a big gain for Bryce. The toss back dive play was created to counter the backside end crashing in on every play, which was a big problem last year, but I feel like it puts a lot of pressure on the O-line to hold their blocks for a longer period and gives more time for the safeties to fill gaps. I'd rather we run more traditionally and keep the backside end home through use of mis-direction and counters. To be fair, Shaw may have been calling conservatively given the lead and how well our defense was playing, and given the result that was a reasonable call. You also have to give credit to USC though, they have a seemingly endless supply of athletic DBs/OLB who made tackles in space when 1 on 1 with Bryce on the outside. They're a good tackling team and well coached.
8. Some bad decisions by our kick returners to run balls out of the end zone and not just take the free 25 yards. I get that we have good returners and special teams, but USC is just too athletic and well coached to make that gamble worth while.
Overall a great game. They dominated a talented team defensively, and the offense looked good and clearly has a higher level that it can reach. I'm incredibly excited to see what the rest of the year brings.
Yeah, I'm usually a defender of Shaw on his play calling (which some people never tire of criticizing), but you do have to wonder a bit what is going on in his mind when he continues to try to run those tosses up the middle when we are getting absolutely bupkus on them. Is he trying to set something else up, keep the defense honest, or what?
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - 81alum - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:23 AM)JPR36 Wrote: Yeah, I'm usually a defender of Shaw on his play calling (which some people never tire of criticizing), but you do have to wonder a bit what is going on in his mind when he continues to try to run those tosses up the middle when we are getting absolutely bupkus on them. Is he trying to set something else up, keep the defense honest, or what?On the 50+ yard sweep, the prior play was yet another toss on 1st down into the middle for nothing. I groaned at the time, but immediately after the wildly successful sweep I wondered whether the unimaginative 1st down call was there to set up the sweep. So perhaps there was some method to this madness?
I have learned that I tend to be considerably too pessimistic about our team. I think it comes from all those years of getting my hopes up and having them dashed. But I am actually not as encouraged as many of you seem to be.
First, last year Love was a wonder to behold, but against certain schemes and defenses he was not consistent enough to keep moving the sticks and keep our ball-control ground game going. At times it seemed that he either got stuffed or else he scored a touchdown--and either outcome is bad for time of possession. This was a major factor in our losses--an inconsistent ground game and a surprising problem (for Stanford) with ball possession, leaving our defense on the field for much too long and the opponents' defenses being rested through the fourth quarter.
This year I see no improvement in the consistency of the ground game, and perhaps a regression. We are not gaining the consistent 3-4 yards on 1st and 2nd downs we need to gain to make 3rd downs manageable. Love is getting stopped in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage way too often. Good defenses will exploit this against us more and more.
Meanwhile, on defense, I remain skeptical about our ability to stop the inside run. It is true that in the 2nd halves against SDSU and USC we were able to defend the run fairly well. But in both cases this was after we got a lead and the opponent was passing more often. Both of our opponents had times early in their games when they gashed us up the middle even when we should have been expecting it. Certain better teams that can afford to stick with the run may be able to "out-Stanford Stanford" as a USC coach said they were reputedly trying to do.
Now, inconsistent ball control on our side combined with a weakness against ball control running on the other--not every team will be able to exploit this, but I worry that some will.
Then again, I usually see the lead lining in every silver cloud.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - OutsiderFan - 09-09-2018
That was one of the most uninspiring most important games of the season I've ever seen. From the crowd, to the announcers, to the teams playing the game. It was just not exciting in any way, shape, or form. I frankly stopped watching because it was so boring, and watched the second half this morning.
It's clear Stanford could have won by a wider margin. Passing up a FG to punt from the 33 is really dumb to me, because A) you need to get your kicker the reps this early in the season and B) you should NEVER punt from inside your 35 EVER (unless your kicker has no leg or stinks).
All I did on every play was count how many defenders were "inside the box" before the ball was snapped. I didn't keep track (hopefully Stanford have coaches who do) of how many times the offenses faced 8+ "in the box" but I know Stanford not only faced 8+ on many more occasions than USC, but USC rarely even faced more than 6 Stanford defenders in the box. Against SDSU they threw the ball enough, but against USC they didn't The pass protection is amazing, so why you wouldn't go with 3 WRs and let Costello go 1-1 all over the field is beyond my comprehension.
Stanford really needs to increase the tempo on offense so the defense doesn't get so many opportunities to rush with 1 second on the play clock. It's big disadvantage to the offense to be so predictable, from first down runs against 8+man fronts, and snapping the ball at obvious times. Let me make clear, playing with more tempo doesn't necessarily mean snapping the ball with 15 seconds on the play clock. It just means ready to snap the ball with more than 1 or 2 seconds on it.
The Defense is pretty good obviously, but the clear weak link is Murphy. He's simply not fast enough (as evidenced against TCU) to play CB. Don't understand why Eboh doesn't get more run.
Jake Bailey is a weapon.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - d4cohn - 09-09-2018
(09-08-2018, 09:21 PM)needle Wrote: I was pretty shocked at how ordinary SC looked. They're going to finish around 7-5.
That said, the secondary played at a very, very high level. I do think the refs were determined to not call any PIs tonight, which of course benefited the secondaries for both teams.
The Stanford offense? Start with the penalties, throw in the predictable first-down runs, the complete lack of a third wide out--not a stellar night. That said, when you have a (hopefully healthy) Costello, Love and JJAW all playing at a high, high level, the offense is....almost as good as it was at the end of last year.
I completely agree with your assessment of SC. I simply wonder who is going to win the South now, because for SC's struggles, they still have the easiest Pac-12 schedule remaining of all the South contenders (SC, Utah, Colorado, Arizona State) by far. SC has already played Stanford, avoids Washington and Oregon entirely, and gets ASU and Colorado at home (Utah road). Otherwise, SC's remaining road Pac-12 games are at Arizona, Oregon State and UCLA (all terrible).
In contrast, Arizona State has road games at both Washington and Oregon (brutal), at Colorado, at USC, home Stanford. Utah has road games at Washington State, Stanford, Colorado and ASU, and home games against UW and Oregon. Colorado has road games at USC and Washington.
SC might not be great, but based on their schedule, could win the Pac-12 South by default. I think the Pac-12 North's dominance of the conference will return after a one-year absence.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - Hurlburt88 - 09-09-2018
Three additional thoughts from me:
1) Our linebackers seem must stronger across the board. Alfieri in his natural position, the return of Barton, and development of the others make this a much improved unit.
2). I saw several unblocked ILBs able to make tackles on Love. I know the box is stacked, but need to figure out how to get hats on them!
3). Did not try Toner for a 50 yard attempt. Combined with miss last week I wonder if accuracy is an issue versus what we expect.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - 81alum - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 01:27 PM)Hurlburt88 Wrote: 2). I saw several unblocked ILBs able to make tackles on Love. I know the box is stacked, but need to figure out how to get hats on them!The TV announcers showed the two inner linebackers moving directly over our inexperienced center. They called it a classic Pendergast formation. It seems to have caught us by surprise and we struggled to figure out how to block them.
I think the long sweep play may have been a reaction to this, and it worked. Not sure why we did not stick with it as long as they were overloading the center.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - Mick - 09-09-2018
(09-08-2018, 10:26 PM)throwaway Wrote: In general I'm not a fan of complaining about the refs, but I thought they were quite biased towards SC tonight. No holds on SC's offense -- despite there being several -- and the defense probably could've gotten a PI call or two.
I felt the same. Almost like it was a Trojan home game and the USC AD had just finished roasting the officiating crew... ;)
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - CompSci87 - 09-09-2018
Something I didn't see mentioned, on D-line depth: we rotated at least 5, with Swann, Williams, and Jackson getting the start, and lots of snaps for DWP and Booker.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - BostonCard - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:13 AM)winflop Wrote: 5. I'd love to see us run Bryce more like USC ran their backs. Quicker handoffs, get him the ball moving forward, slant runs, pitches. Get him in space more often
I don't know. USC wound up with 3.1 ypc; Stanford wound up with 5.5 ypc. Even taking out Daniels' sacks, SC still wound up with 4.2 ypc. Also, I am not sure that quicker hand-offs work well with Love. He usually shows a remarkable amount of patience behind the line of scrimmage, then identifies the hole and hits it. Sometimes the hole never materializes, and we get the one or two yard gains or even losses, but when it does, he plants and is gone.
(09-09-2018, 08:13 AM)winflop Wrote: 6. Paulson Adebo - WOW. Hard to believe he's a true frosh.
That's cause he's not. He redshirted last year.
(09-09-2018, 08:13 AM)winflop Wrote: 9. OL did a superb job in pass blocking. I'm still waiting for the steamroller to show up. Not sure they are yet playing as a unit.
I'm wondering whether the missing piece is the fullback. On Love's big run he ran behind a three tight end set (plus JJ Arcega Whiteside), without a fullback. I've said this before, but I think we are missing Marx more than we thought we would.
BC
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - Austroturf - 09-09-2018
(09-08-2018, 09:20 PM)rudruff Wrote: So far I am pleasantly surprised by the defense. Run blocking is my major worry.
Yes, run-blocking is also one of my greatest concerns. Plus, we have an annoying tendency to increase the yardage to gain by committing foolish delay of game penalties and false starts. Hopefully, the machine will start humming better as the season progresses.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - SamuelMcF - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 02:35 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Something I didn't see mentioned, on D-line depth: we rotated at least 5, with Swann, Williams, and Jackson getting the start, and lots of snaps for DWP and Booker.
6. Ryan Johnson had a bunch of fourth-quarter snaps when $C was in its own territory. Maybe best to call it 5.5 for now.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - qwerty49 - 09-09-2018
My two cents:
1. I was wondering why Adebo didn’t start.
2. Maybe KJ just isn’t as accurate as we think. At least 2 passes behind Parkinson. Or was it the route?
3. What a great time for our LBs to step up! Especially nice to see Branch playing so tough.
4. It’s no fun when our O gets stuffed, but at least we get to watch Bailey launch those interstellar probes.
5. I didn’t see anyone groaning when we punted from the $C 34. Are we jaded now?
6. Bryce seems a half step slower than last year. Or maybe that half step is just one of those futile juke moves. At times I thought he was trying to do too much. Sometimes, there’s no way you can turn a 1-yd gain into anything but a 1-yd gain.
7. #10 and #45 on $C cheated up to the LOS on Bryce’s big run and that was a big difference.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - d4cohn - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 02:58 PM)Austroturf Wrote:(09-08-2018, 09:20 PM)rudruff Wrote: So far I am pleasantly surprised by the defense. Run blocking is my major worry.
Yes, run-blocking is also one of my greatest concerns. Plus, we have an annoying tendency to increase the yardage to gain by committing foolish delay of game penalties and false starts. Hopefully, the machine will start humming better as the season progresses.
Watching back the film from last night, I thought the run blocking was worse on film than my perception of it in person. I would give the run blocking, at best D, and possibly worse, based on the number of missed assignments, holding penalties (all three that I counted were in the running game), false starts (both called and uncalled; it seemed AT was consistently leaving at least a half step early, but appeared to be only called once). We had big plays (where we executed the run blocking well), but the consistency in terms of execution across the line was not there last night. JJ also didn't have his best game blocking, as evidence on the long Bryce run that should have gone for 6 had JJ applied a better block.
However, I thought, by the same token, the pass-protection was excellent (A-/B+ level). USC brought some good blitzes, and Costello was under heat at times in the passing game, but I felt that was more often attributable to good defensive playcalling than any breakdowns on our part. Speights was a revelation in the pass protection last night (I think Shaw may have found something on passing downs, even if his one screen reception was not great).
Also, Adebo was an A+ last night, based on my examination of the film. Absolutely fantastic. Other people were raving about his play against SDSU, and while I thought he played well, I felt the secondary as a whole was basically unchallenged due to Chapman's limitations. Not last night. His tackling was sure every play I saw (which was great to see, given the missed tackles we have had in the recent past, as well as the difficulty of the ask, given SC's team speed), and his pass defense was great too. I recall one long pass on Murphy (not sure who had coverage on the other two USC got). Alijah also deserves a lot of credit for his play.
Alferi and Toohill were outstanding again last night. I thought the DL was ok, based on the film I saw. SC is a much tougher ask than SDSU, and we certainly played better than either game last year on the DL. DL missed two obvious sacks (one by Swann, went for first down, not sure on second, but it was cleaned up by Barton). In that regard, I think Barton and the LB crew was able to help the DL with a tough assignment.
All in all, defense was an A in my estimation. Great great performance.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - CompSci87 - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 03:07 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:Thanks, I missed noticing him.(09-09-2018, 02:35 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Something I didn't see mentioned, on D-line depth: we rotated at least 5, with Swann, Williams, and Jackson getting the start, and lots of snaps for DWP and Booker.
6. Ryan Johnson had a bunch of fourth-quarter snaps when $C was in its own territory. Maybe best to call it 5.5 for now.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - BostonCard - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 04:06 PM)d4cohn Wrote: Alferi and Toohill were outstanding again last night. I thought the DL was ok, based on the film I saw. SC is a much tougher ask than SDSU, and we certainly played better than either game last year on the DL. DL missed two obvious sacks (one by Swann, went for first down, not sure on second, but it was cleaned up by Barton). In that regard, I think Barton and the LB crew was able to help the DL with a tough assignment.
All in all, defense was an A in my estimation. Great great performance.
one other thing about the defense yesterday. It was less dependent on great individual plays (though there were some), than on swarming to the ball. A couple times the ball carrier eluded the first guy who managed to slow him down enough that he was met with an onslaught of defenders so that the damage from a missed tackle (with a couple exceptions) was usually minimal.
On the long pass against Murphy, it was hard to really blame him. He was with the receiver step by step; Daniels just placed it perfectly, in a place where only the receiver could get it. Reminded me of Luck back in the day.
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 09-09-2018
I just now watched the game. Couple thoughts:
1. Biggest factor to me in the game is the pressure on Daniels. Terrific job.
2. They ran a little more outside than against SDS. But still not a lot. Remember, however, that Love was devastating running between the tackles last year. Most of those record breaking 50 yard run were inside. Problem is they just haven’t been able to give him any room. Not getting much of a push. And I have to think Burkett being out has an impact. Dalman I’m sure will be a good player. But Burkett has the experience and center is a very important position.
3. KJ was very good in the first half. Not so much in second. But SC did a better job of putting pressure on him. They did run a couple slants which I liked. Still don’t see a lot of crossing patters drag routes etc. Not sure why.
4. Stanford’s screen game continues to be awful. Dreadful. Putrid. Hard to understand actually
5. Kaden Smith had a very nice game. He and Parkinson are quite a combo
6. No third wideout to be seen. Wedington hurt. Where was our St.Brown?
7. I like Alfieri and Toohill at OLB. A lot.
8. Had no issue with the punt from the 33. It was 4th and 13. You are up 2 TDs. A long FG has a better chance to be blocked.
9. Second half game plan went conservative. But it played to the game. No mistakes to give SC a short field. Make them do something they couldn’t and didn’t do all day - drive the field for a score.
10. Bailey is a weapon.
PS - I thought the refs called a good game. They allowed the defensive backs on both teams to be quite physical. All in all I think that’s a big advantage for Stanford. They have more physical wide receivers to be able to handle it and they are not as reliant on small quick receivers. Stanford could’ve been flagged for two or three PIs.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - washingtonismoney - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 04:04 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: 2. Maybe KJ just isn’t as accurate as we think. At least 2 passes behind Parkinson. Or was it the route?
Agree with your sentiment but the specific examples are a bit inapt. One of those passes was more a communication mess-up than an accuracy failure: the pass was meant for a one of those back-shoulder fades, which are unstoppable...if both receiver and quarterback's timing and communication are on-point. That didn't work out; Parkinson turned too late. Hard to tell whether the fault was Parkinson's or Costello's or something else, but the throw in of itself was fine.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - fullmetal - 09-10-2018
KJ said, post-game, that the offense continually shot itself in the foot. Accurate, and a good sign that they know they need to work on things (delays of game, miscommunicated routes, blown blocking, etc.).
In keeping with the Pareto Principle, Bryce Love gained 83% of his yards on 18% of his carries. He averaged 1.21 ypc without his three longest runs (59, 28, 14). I feel like he still has his speed -- he was able to torch #7 and #8 on two different plays beating them to the edge, but that wasn't a long-term winning strategy as better discipline resulted in U$C sealing the edge quite effectively.
Hope Sarell isn't out for long if at all.
U$C did look ordinary. Stanford looked above average. Don't want to get my hopes up too early. #afterpartyinthebackfield
Refs let the teams play. There were non-calls on both sides.
I'm worried about the OL not getting any push vs. the U$C DL. Surely Stanford should have had better run-blocking.
A former Stanford defensive player noted that JJAW might have been pulling the defender into the body as JJAW was running out of bounds...I haven't seen a replay yet.
The game seemed like a classic Shaw win -- get ahead and bleed clock. Some of that was due to the offensive inconsistency. There were 11 non-victory formation possessions, three of which resulted in points, and the rest averaged 16.13 yds/drive.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - 81alum - 09-10-2018
(09-10-2018, 02:01 AM)fullmetal Wrote: In keeping with the Pareto Principle, Bryce Love gained 83% of his yards on 18% of his carries. He averaged 1.21 ypc without his three longest runs (59, 28, 14). I feel like he still has his speed -- he was able to torch #7 and #8 on two different plays beating them to the edge, but that wasn't a long-term winning strategy as better discipline resulted in U$C sealing the edge quite effectively.Thanks! This is what I was trying to say earlier. Running Love is not like running Muster, or Gerhart, or Taylor, or Gaffney. It is like throwing the long bomb.
RE: Stanford v. USC post game thoughts - PalmTree - 09-10-2018
(09-09-2018, 08:13 AM)winflop Wrote: 1. Epic performance by the defense
2. Epic performance by the defense
3. Epic performance by the defense
4. Lance Anderson for H-Word :)
5. I'd love to see us run Bryce more like USC ran their backs. Quicker handoffs, get him the ball moving forward, slant runs, pitches. Get him in space more often
6. Paulson Adebo - WOW. Hard to believe he's a true frosh.
7. More play action, more throwing on first down. I think we finally did pass on first down, but I can only remember once or twice.
8. KJ is big time, the real deal.
9. OL did a superb job in pass blocking. I'm still waiting for the steamroller to show up. Not sure they are yet playing as a unit.
I really hope Sarrell isn't lost for the season but I fear he is. He was unable to put ANY weight on it coming off the field, but he was standing on the sideline in the second half. Fingers crossed
Abedo's a sophomore - that said, you're right....WOW!