Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl

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RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - winflop - 12-18-2018

(12-17-2018, 09:57 PM)82lsju Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 09:13 PM)winflop Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 06:08 PM)BobK Wrote: Shaw implied Love had a medical procedure.

I for one think he earned the right to be ready for the draft

If he isn't healthy enough to play, then I have no issue. Didn't see any reference to that in his statement though.

But if a player is healthy enough to play and doesn't, then I have a problem. Bowl games are part of the season.

the part below, emphasis added, about being completely healthy implies some level of injury, watching him play this season I don't think he has ever been close to 100% healthy this year

“I will not be playing in our upcoming bowl game and will instead focus on being completely healthy and prepared for the 2019 NFL draft. God has blessed me with an incredible opportunity to play the sport I love at the highest level — it is a surreal feeling to be on the cusp of seeing my dream come true,” Love wrote. “I am completely devoted to this next chapter of my career, and I will always keep the Stanford community, my family and my faith by my side throughout.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/stanford-rb-bryce-love-sitting-bowl-game-prepare-nfl-002519634.html

McCaffrey said pretty much the same thing when he opted out early. However, I did notice that Shaw said in his presser that Love had a "medical procedure" after Big Game so it's certainly possible that he would not be healthy enough to play. But when a player says, "I am completely devoted to this next chapter of my career" before the season is over, I am left to question.

Bottom line is we don't know his health or the others who have been declared out. I just believe if they are healthy enough to play, they should play - regardless of whether it's the National Championship game or a mid-level bowl game.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - OutsiderFan - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 03:26 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 08:42 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 05:25 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Wow we are a MASH unit.

Unfortunately if we end up on the wrong side of the scoreboard no one will remember the injuries.

Next man up!

Anyone remember literally half our starting defense being out for the second half vs. TCU?

Didn't think so.

Well, it seems like pretty close to half our starting offense is going to be out for the whole game in this one.
Hopefully the ones who do play will fare better than our defense did in the second half of last year's bowl game.
Unlike others, I don't consider this game totally "meaningless" because losing it will tie 2014 for Shaw's worst season since he has been head coach here. Not particularly anxious for that to happen.
Did this article get posted here?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2018/12/13/college-football-bowl-game-industry-espn/2286401002/
For those who want the bowl game system as it is to disappear, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Yes, and so too was there a Tulip bubble, an internet bubble, a housing bubble, and a more sports-related NASCAR bubble.

This mayor who talks about the media value of sponsoring the Bahamas Bowl, has been duped by the propaganda industry. I will be the first to admit there is some value in getting your name out, but its value is oversold. Think about it. The people who trade in the cesspool that is the media business, are always going to promote its value as greater than it is. Be it logo time on screen, clicks, shares, or other measures, everyone, even companies who try to measure media value, have a vested interest in pumping up it up as much as possible.

I used to be a brobdingnagian fan of bowl games. But when they became too prolific, the playoff started (no other games are important - ESPN spent what, two hours on its bowl selection show talking about the playoff games before any other bowl match-up), and players began sitting out of the games, it was enough to drive my interest very low. While I used to be interested in watching any team play, now I'm only interested in Pac-12 teams, and I don't think I will even bother watching Oregon, WSU, or Utah play their games.

So ESPN can say they want to make the bowls even bigger, and run these stories about how awesome the "take me for a dupe" bowl system is, but you know what, it doesn't matter what ESPN wants. It matters what I and fans who think like me want, and I believe more and more fans are going to become less and less interested. Peak Bowl has hit and the bubble is about to burst, IMO.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - ChicagoCard - 12-18-2018

Is it certain that Little is out? I thought somebody asked in the Soundcloud clip who would play of Little can't go...

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - 82lsju - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 03:49 AM)winflop Wrote: Bottom line is we don't know his health or the others who have been declared out. I just believe if they are healthy enough to play, they should play - regardless of whether it's the National Championship game or a mid-level bowl game.

one "test" of health could be if a player skips a bowl game and plays in the Senior Bowl (or other similar game)..........like the QB and OT from West Virginia who are both sitting out their bowl game but playing in the Senior Bowl.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - JohnR34231 - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 07:10 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 03:26 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 08:42 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 05:25 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Wow we are a MASH unit.

Unfortunately if we end up on the wrong side of the scoreboard no one will remember the injuries.

Next man up!

Anyone remember literally half our starting defense being out for the second half vs. TCU?

Didn't think so.

Well, it seems like pretty close to half our starting offense is going to be out for the whole game in this one.
Hopefully the ones who do play will fare better than our defense did in the second half of last year's bowl game.
Unlike others, I don't consider this game totally "meaningless" because losing it will tie 2014 for Shaw's worst season since he has been head coach here. Not particularly anxious for that to happen.
Did this article get posted here?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2018/12/13/college-football-bowl-game-industry-espn/2286401002/
For those who want the bowl game system as it is to disappear, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Yes, and so too was there a Tulip bubble, an internet bubble, a housing bubble, and a more sports-related NASCAR bubble.

This mayor who talks about the media value of sponsoring the Bahamas Bowl, has been duped by the propaganda industry. I will be the first to admit there is some value in getting your name out, but its value is oversold. Think about it. The people who trade in the cesspool that is the media business, are always going to promote its value as greater than it is. Be it logo time on screen, clicks, shares, or other measures, everyone, even companies who try to measure media value, have a vested interest in pumping up it up as much as possible.

I used to be a of immense proportions fan of bowl games. But when they became too prolific, the playoff started (no other games are important - ESPN spent what, two hours on its bowl selection show talking about the playoff games before any other bowl match-up), and players began sitting out of the games, it was enough to drive my interest very low. While I used to be interested in watching any team play, now I'm only interested in Pac-12 teams, and I don't think I will even bother watching Oregon, WSU, or Utah play their games.

So ESPN can say they want to make the bowls even bigger, and run these stories about how awesome the "take me for a dupe" bowl system is, but you know what, it doesn't matter what ESPN wants. It matters what I and fans who think like me want, and I believe more and more fans are going to become less and less interested. Peak Bowl has hit and the bubble is about to burst, IMO.

I get the point about the decreasing marginal utility of these games. However, as the article points out, there is a big TV audience out there during the holiday season. The question isn't so much whether these games are fabulously entertaining, it's just whether they are more entertaining, than, say, watching "It's A Wonderful Life" for the hundredth time. ESPN seems to think they are. Time will tell what the fans think.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - Spiny_Norman - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 07:12 AM)ChicagoCard Wrote: Is it certain that Little is out? I thought somebody asked in the Soundcloud clip who would play of Little can't go...

Yes, Little seems to have had or will have a medical procedure. Devery Hamilton will start. Shaw said that Henry Hattis and Grant Pease will be the backups for Hamilton and AT Hall at tackle.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - 82lsju - 12-18-2018

(12-17-2018, 08:42 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 05:25 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: Wow we are a MASH unit.

Unfortunately if we end up on the wrong side of the scoreboard no one will remember the injuries.

Next man up!

Anyone remember literally half our starting defense being out for the second half vs. TCU?

Didn't think so.

exactly, most people who watch the bowl games on TV are not all that familiar with the players on each team. Some non-Stanford fans might be aware of Bryce Love, Kaden Smith, or JJAW if they do not play, but most will not know anything about any other players missing the game. Same would be true for me watching most of the bowl games.....

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - Phogge - 12-18-2018

The Senior Bowl practices are invaluable to players hoping for higher picks. Every NFL team is in attendance with multiple scouts and execs.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - OutsiderFan - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 10:15 AM)Phogge Wrote: The Senior Bowl practices are invaluable to players hoping for higher picks. Every NFL team is in attendance with multiple scouts and execs.

I'm so much more interested in Senior Bowl practices than the Bahamas, Armed Forces, Red Box, or whatever the hell else bowls.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - needle - 12-18-2018

Quote:I get the point about the decreasing marginal utility of these games. However, as the article points out, there is a big TV audience out there during the holiday season. The question isn't so much whether these games are fabulously entertaining, it's just whether they are more entertaining, than, say, watching "It's A Wonderful Life" for the hundredth time. ESPN seems to think they are. Time will tell what the fans think.

Also worth noting when thinking about "fans": sports bettors. Linked below is an article that states football betting (yes, the American kind) is about a $2 billion industry in Nevada, about twice as much as the next popular sport for bettors.

With some pending legalization initiatives in various states, for ESPN it's probably *ahem* a good bet to continue broadcasting sports that appeal to this particular group of "fans."

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2018/04/16/World-Congress-of-Sports/Research.aspx

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - Austroturf - 12-18-2018

(12-17-2018, 04:51 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Skeleton crew for the bowl game. Love, Little, Irwin, Smith, Herbig, Jackson, Murphy all out. Toohill, Branch, and Pryts probable. No mention of Ben Edwards and Curtis Robinson. Wilson starting in Irwin's place, so we still intend to redshirt Wedington.

https://twitter.com/StanfordFball/status/1074804543806795776

This list, in my view, is also an indication of how important this game is to Shaw. Looking forward, he probably does not want to risk the health of Little, Herbig, Smith and Jackson (and probably a few others) for a Sun Bowl victory that will mean nothing when the 2019 season begins (assuming Herbig and Smith return). Yes, the post-season is becoming a farce of insignificant contests overshadowed by the fates of four "important" teams. The Washington-Ohio State game may be a wonderful contest, but it is all an exercise in consolation prizes with the CFP dominating the real interest of the football world. Expand to 8, even 16 if necessary, but the post-season has devolved into a series of exhibition match-ups that are dwindling in significance. If you have already made your mark on college football (McCaffrey, Love), you sit out; if you see the game as a chance to make a final statement, you play (Solomon Thomas). It is no longer a given that players participate until the end (see Bosa at OSU). And regarding Love, I back him up 100%: he came back because of unfinished business, which in his view was a Pac-12 championship and, at least, a Rose Bowl appearance. The Sun Bowl was not part of that unfinished business. He's already played in one and helped us win in 2016.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - ADPinWDC - 12-18-2018

FOCUS ON 2019
Right -- Shaw & Co have painfully learned about injuries and healing time, A LOT the past two seasons.
I agree the holdouts are Shaw looking ahead to 2019, when the home Schedule is SO MUCH more favorable, plus the second bye week now.
He's got KJ running on all cylinders, and a load of targets, 7 or 8 deep.  We come out throwing next year.
The RBs are decent, not McCaffrey, Gerhart or Love, but decent. Let's see if "the next Bryce", Austin Jones, gets any playing time (?).
Jones did not finish his senior season at B.O'Dowd with eye-popping numbers, but he rates real high, and his H.S. won the Div. II NorCal title.
This continues a trend started in this Golden Era of not only getting 4-star+ talent, but getting guys who played on H.S. State Finalist teams.

WASH loses Browning and Gaskin both. Minshew at WAST graduates also. RB Laird returns but Kal does not have a QB.
Does Herbert at Oregon declare for NFL by Jan. 14 deadline? Or return to play one season with his incoming brother?
Scouts have him going in the first round as the top QB. Without Herbert, the Ducks will be good, but not great.
U$C and UCLA are both still sputtering.
I think Shaw smells another Pac12 crown in his sights with a lot of experience back and solid talent coming up at key positions.
So he will use the Sun Bowl to give the "next up" guys some reps. GOOD PLAN.
A 12-1 Pac12 Champ makes the Playoff is the bet, if that includes a win on NDAM.
(but the whole league needs to win some bowl games. 1W-8L hurts us)

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - BostonCard - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 04:39 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 04:51 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Skeleton crew for the bowl game. Love, Little, Irwin, Smith, Herbig, Jackson, Murphy all out. Toohill, Branch, and Pryts probable. No mention of Ben Edwards and Curtis Robinson. Wilson starting in Irwin's place, so we still intend to redshirt Wedington.

https://twitter.com/StanfordFball/status/1074804543806795776
This list, in my view, is also an indication of how important this game is to Shaw. Looking forward, he probably does not want to risk the health of Little, Herbig, Smith and Jackson (and probably a few others) for a Sun Bowl victory that will mean nothing when the 2019 season begins (assuming Herbig and Smith return). Yes, the post-season is becoming a farce of insignificant contests overshadowed by the fates of four "important" teams. The Washington-Ohio State game may be a wonderful contest, but it is all an exercise in consolation prizes with the CFP dominating the real interest of the football world. Expand to 8, even 16 if necessary, but the post-season has devolved into a series of exhibition match-ups that are dwindling in significance. If you have already made your mark on college football (McCaffrey, Love), you sit out; if you see the game as a chance to make a final statement, you play (Solomon Thomas). It is no longer a given that players participate until the end (see Bosa at OSU). And regarding Love, I back him up 100%: he came back because of unfinished business, which in his view was a Pac-12 championship and, at least, a Rose Bowl appearance. The Sun Bowl was not part of that unfinished business. He's already played in one and helped us win in 2016.

Do we have any reason to believe that Smith will return? Or Herbig for that matter (other than his draft position has likely fallen due to his performance this year).

BC

(12-18-2018, 05:34 PM)ADPinWDC Wrote: FOCUS ON 2019
Right -- Shaw & Co have painfully learned about injuries and healing time, A LOT the past two seasons.
I agree the holdouts are Shaw looking ahead to 2019, when the home Schedule is SO MUCH more favorable, plus the second bye week now.
He's got KJ running on all cylinders, and a load of targets, 7 or 8 deep.  We come out throwing next year.
The RBs are decent, not McCaffrey, Gerhart or Love, but decent. Let's see if "the next Bryce", Austin Jones, gets any playing time (?).
Jones did not finish his senior season at B.O'Dowd with eye-popping numbers, but he rates real high, and his H.S. won the Div. II NorCal title.
This continues a trend started in this Golden Era of not only getting 4-star+ talent, but getting guys who played on H.S. State Finalist teams.

WASH loses Browning and Gaskin both. Minshew at WAST graduates also. RB Laird returns but Kal does not have a QB.
Does Herbert at Oregon declare for NFL by Jan. 14 deadline? Or return to play one season with his incoming brother?
Scouts have him going in the first round as the top QB. Without Herbert, the Ducks will be good, but not great.
U$C and UCLA are both still sputtering.
I think Shaw smells another Pac12 crown in his sights with a lot of experience back and solid talent coming up at key positions.
So he will use the Sun Bowl to give the "next up" guys some reps. GOOD PLAN.
A 12-1 Pac12 Champ makes the Playoff is the bet, if that includes a win on NDAM.
(but the whole league needs to win some bowl games. 1W-8L hurts us)

Boy the pac-12 is going to be the red-headed stepsister of power five conferences.

BC

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - winflop - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 04:39 PM)Austroturf Wrote:
(12-17-2018, 04:51 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote: Skeleton crew for the bowl game. Love, Little, Irwin, Smith, Herbig, Jackson, Murphy all out. Toohill, Branch, and Pryts probable. No mention of Ben Edwards and Curtis Robinson. Wilson starting in Irwin's place, so we still intend to redshirt Wedington.

https://twitter.com/StanfordFball/status/1074804543806795776
This list, in my view, is also an indication of how important this game is to Shaw. Looking forward, he probably does not want to risk the health of Little, Herbig, Smith and Jackson (and probably a few others) for a Sun Bowl victory that will mean nothing when the 2019 season begins (assuming Herbig and Smith return). Yes, the post-season is becoming a farce of insignificant contests overshadowed by the fates of four "important" teams. The Washington-Ohio State game may be a wonderful contest, but it is all an exercise in consolation prizes with the CFP dominating the real interest of the football world. Expand to 8, even 16 if necessary, but the post-season has devolved into a series of exhibition match-ups that are dwindling in significance. If you have already made your mark on college football (McCaffrey, Love), you sit out; if you see the game as a chance to make a final statement, you play (Solomon Thomas). It is no longer a given that players participate until the end (see Bosa at OSU). And regarding Love, I back him up 100%: he came back because of unfinished business, which in his view was a Pac-12 championship and, at least, a Rose Bowl appearance. The Sun Bowl was not part of that unfinished business. He's already played in one and helped us win in 2016.

I don't think there is a "looking forward" with Herbig because I think he's entering the draft. This is about him not wanting to risk injury in a "meaningless" bowl game which would jeopardize his NFL career. But he took that same risk in every other game this season that he played in. There should be no difference.

I think if a healthy player chooses not to play in a postseason game - in any sport - then they should lose their scholarship for that year. They signed a contract that provides them an education worth $300,000 or more in exchange for playing that sport.

If the coach chooses to hold them out, that's different. But if the player chooses not to play/practice - and it appears that's what Herbig has done - then I think that's a breach of contract.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'm kinda sick of this sitting out because of risk of injury.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - SamuelMcF - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 05:34 PM)ADPinWDC Wrote: WASH loses Browning and Gaskin both. Minshew at WAST graduates also. RB Laird returns but Kal does not have a QB.
Does Herbert at Oregon declare for NFL by Jan. 14 deadline? Or return to play one season with his incoming brother?
Scouts have him going in the first round as the top QB. Without Herbert, the Ducks will be good, but not great.
U$C and UCLA are both still sputtering.
I think Shaw smells another Pac12 crown in his sights with a lot of experience back and solid talent coming up at key positions.
So he will use the Sun Bowl to give the "next up" guys some reps. GOOD PLAN.
A 12-1 Pac12 Champ makes the Playoff is the bet, if that includes a win on NDAM.
(but the whole league needs to win some bowl games. 1W-8L hurts us)

Laird is a RS Senior. Gone. And Kal just picked up Devon Modster, a transfer from UCLA, at QB - but who knows how much of an upgrade that is.

Washington has multiple backups better than Browning (Petersen is stubborn), and Ahmed should be a relatively small step down from Gaskin.

USC now has Kliff Kingsbury at OC and won't sputter for long. Getting them early in the season will help though.

If I'm Mike Leach, I'm throwing the kitchen sink at Justin Fields.

RE: Shaw's media comments re: Sun Bowl - BostonCard - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 07:15 PM)winflop Wrote: I don't think there is a "looking forward" with Herbig because I think he's entering the draft. This is about him not wanting to risk injury in a "meaningless" bowl game which would jeopardize his NFL career. But he took that same risk in every other game this season that he played in. There should be no difference.

I think if a healthy player chooses not to play in a postseason game - in any sport - then they should lose their scholarship for that year. They signed a contract that provides them an education worth $300,000 or more in exchange for playing that sport.

If the coach chooses to hold them out, that's different. But if the player chooses not to play/practice - and it appears that's what Herbig has done - then I think that's a breach of contract.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'm kinda sick of this sitting out because of risk of injury.

Viewing this from a player's perspective, isn't a bowl game also an opportunity to put some good stuff on tape and impress scouts? We talk about McCaffrey skipping the Sun Bowl two years ago, but that's because he had plenty of stuff on tape already. If his game against Cal (284 yards and 3 TD's rushing) didn't impress scouts, there was always the Rose Bowl, 2015 Pac-12 championship, and 2015 Big Game plus eye-popping stats to impress scouts. Really, there was nothing that McCaffrey could do that would improve his position, but he could hurt it with a sub-par game or getting injured.

On the other hand, Solomon Thomas did improve his stock by being a "man among boys" in the Sun Bowl. His 7 tackles, 2 TFL's, and game ending sack on the two-point conversion probably pushed him into the top-10. Not that he hadn't been impressive before, but with the spotlight shining on him, he delivered.

Looking at this year, Love could probably improve his draft stock if he were healthy and had a breakout game that has eluded him all season. Then again, he probably isn't fully healthy, and what are the chances he will have a breakout game given that half of the offensive line is going to be out. His risk of injury, or of looking like he lost a step or was still injured outweighs the chances that he will have a 2017-like performance. So, it makes sense for him to sit out.

Some of the other guys, I'm not so sure hurt themselves much by playing, so I infer that they are injured. Herbig pancaking guys left and right would help his case, I think, given that he has likely dropped a bit on the basis of his performance this season; struggling somewhat wouldn't change the conclusion that he is a high-ceiling guy with impressive physical attributes whose performance was up and down this year. Smith has some nice games, but he hasn't distinguished himself from other elite tight ends. If healthy, he could improve his draft, especially with Irwin out. I think if either of those guys were fully healthy, they would play the bowl game, because the upshot of improved exposure (game not on the Pac-12 nets) outweighs the risk of injury or hurting their draft stock.

BC