Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL

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RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - CardinalSagehen - 12-18-2018

(12-18-2018, 09:40 PM)winflop Wrote: They always have the right, but with rights come responsibilities, and consequences. Right now there are no consequences for abdicating their responsibilities as part of their scholarship agreement (a contract). I'm not suggesting they be compelled to play if they are healthy, just that there should be consequences for breaching a contract.

I disagree with you in principle on this, but I also think your proposed solution of applying penalties would be impractical. The scholarship agreement may be a sort of contract, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t provide for damages beyond taking away the scholarship. And this would be pointless because the player is leaving anyway. Nobody skips a bowl game while healthy and planning to be around another year.

Just like an at-will employee, the player can choose to leave at any time or be kicked off the team and have his scholarship terminated at any time. This is similar to an employee leaving a job, not to a contractor leaving before the final touches are completed on your home improvement project.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - Spiny_Norman - 12-19-2018

(12-18-2018, 07:52 PM)Goose Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 07:17 PM)winflop Wrote: Agree 100%. However, McCaffrey's decision to leave early left a bitter taste in my mouth. I have no such bitterness about Love, but I do have the same bitterness about Herbig and any other player who is medically cleared to play and chooses not to.
I guess I am not totally clued in. When ask, Shaw said Herbig was not playing, and that Herbig not playing was not due to injury. When asked if Herbig was going pro, he said it was not for him to say. From that (and possibly other things that I don't know about), I assume many are concluding Herbig is going pro and not playing for that reason. If so, it seems a bit strange he has not said so. It is not as if we won't know about it if he doesn't tell us until later. Or maybe he has and I missed the announcement?
As of now, I am hoping there is some other issue preventing him from playing.

Goose, I have no inside information. But I don't think we should draw conclusions or even speculate from the public information on Nate Herbig. There may be things going on that we don't know about. Let's wait until Herbig makes a public statement or we learn more from the coaches.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - winflop - 12-19-2018

(12-19-2018, 12:53 AM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 07:52 PM)Goose Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 07:17 PM)winflop Wrote: Agree 100%. However, McCaffrey's decision to leave early left a bitter taste in my mouth. I have no such bitterness about Love, but I do have the same bitterness about Herbig and any other player who is medically cleared to play and chooses not to.
I guess I am not totally clued in. When ask, Shaw said Herbig was not playing, and that Herbig not playing was not due to injury. When asked if Herbig was going pro, he said it was not for him to say. From that (and possibly other things that I don't know about), I assume many are concluding Herbig is going pro and not playing for that reason. If so, it seems a bit strange he has not said so. It is not as if we won't know about it if he doesn't tell us until later. Or maybe he has and I missed the announcement?
As of now, I am hoping there is some other issue preventing him from playing.

Goose, I have no inside information. But I don't think we should draw conclusions or even speculate from the public information on Nate Herbig. There may be things going on that we don't know about. Let's wait until Herbig makes a public statement or we learn more from the coaches.

Could be that Herbig is waiting for an NFL draft grade eval before deciding. If the eval comes back as a high draft pick (first two rounds = guaranteed contract), I wouldn't blame him for jumping. Whether he goes or not doesn't change how I feel about his decision to not play. Shaw stated he is not injured and is choosing not to play, and singled him out in that respect. I'm reading a couple things into Shaw's statements:
1. Shaw is not happy with Herbig's decision. The tone reminds me of how he spoke of McCaffrey's decision.
2. The rest of the guys have significant injuries. The only one who Shaw said might play is Kaden Smith, who is a pretty sure bet to leave early and be a first-round pick.

(12-18-2018, 11:42 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:
(12-18-2018, 09:40 PM)winflop Wrote: They always have the right, but with rights come responsibilities, and consequences. Right now there are no consequences for abdicating their responsibilities as part of their scholarship agreement (a contract). I'm not suggesting they be compelled to play if they are healthy, just that there should be consequences for breaching a contract.

I disagree with you in principle on this, but I also think your proposed solution of applying penalties would be impractical. The scholarship agreement may be a sort of contract, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t provide for damages beyond taking away the scholarship. And this would be pointless because the player is leaving anyway. Nobody skips a bowl game while healthy and planning to be around another year.

Just like an at-will employee, the player can choose to leave at any time or be kicked off the team and have his scholarship terminated at any time. This is similar to an employee leaving a job, not to a contractor leaving before the final touches are completed on your home improvement project.

You may be right that my solution is impractical, but it's not a "sort of contract" - it is a contract, and it's worth several hundred thousand dollars. If the player is under 18 on signing day, a parent or legal guardian must sign it as well. I don't know the terms of these contracts so can't comment on the extent to which it's as much at-will as an employment relationship although it does look like that.

There's also the risk that doing something like this could hurt recruiting if other schools don't act similarly. But this is a new, growing, and troubling trend and maybe someone needs to get out in front of it. Why not Stanford?

Pulling the scholarship immediately is one recourse. They could also revoke the right to return after or during their pro careers to complete their degree if they aren't graduating, requiring the player to reapply for admission and to pay full tuition room & board.

I know I'm at one end of the spectrum on this, but I'm a big believer in finishing what you start and fulfilling your commitments - something I've told the players on any team I've coached and subjected my poor kids to more times than they or I care to remember - and I see this as absolutely not doing that.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - CTcard - 12-19-2018

(12-19-2018, 06:50 AM)winflop Wrote: Could be that Herbig is waiting for an NFL draft grade eval before deciding. If the eval comes back as a high draft pick (first two rounds = guaranteed contract), I wouldn't blame him for jumping. Whether he goes or not doesn't change how I feel about his decision to not play. Shaw stated he is not injured and is choosing not to play, and singled him out in that respect. I'm reading a couple things into Shaw's statements:
1. Shaw is not happy with Herbig's decision. The tone reminds me of how he spoke of McCaffrey's decision.

Just relistened to the Shaw on-field presser.
"Shaw stated he is not injured and is choosing not to play" is not quite what Shaw stated. Shaw stated that Herbig won't be playing then said it was not injury related. There are other possibilities than choosing not to play, though I agree that is most likely.
It was clear that Shaw wasn't pleased.

Quote:2. The rest of the guys have significant injuries. The only one who Shaw said might play is Kaden Smith, who is a pretty sure bet to leave early and be a first-round pick.

I believe you are speaking of guys who might get drafted since that is the general theme here.
Shaw did say group Kaden Smith, Casey Toohill, and Mustafa Branch as players who might be able to play.
Strictly speaking he also said Sarell might be able to play, but he doesn't think so.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - Goose - 12-19-2018

(12-19-2018, 12:38 PM)CTcard Wrote: Just relistened to the Shaw on-field presser.
"Shaw stated he is not injured and is choosing not to play" is not quite what Shaw stated. Shaw stated that Herbig won't be playing then said it was not injury related. There are other possibilities than choosing not to play, though I agree that is most likely.
It was clear that Shaw wasn't pleased.

That is what I heard also. Shaw isn't pleased. However, if Herbig is sitting out because he may be/will be going pro, it makes no sense for Herbig not to say so. It will be public knowledge when he declares anyway, and I would suspect Shaw would tell him either state he isn't going to play because he is going pro or to play. Otherwise, it puts Shaw in the position of not being able to say what is going on, and I don't think Shaw would allow that. Love and CMac stated their intentions. I would expect Herbig to do likewise.
For sure it is possible Herbig just decided not to play and not to announce that. However, under those circumstances, Shaw would be fully justified in saying exactly that. There are lots of other things that could keep Herbig out and Shaw couldn't reveal them. There are other health reasons besides injuries for example, as well as team discipline, academic reasons, etc. It could be any of these or none of these. I have no idea what it may be. I hope it falls into the "other" class and is resolved in a positive manner.
I have no problem with a player declaring he is going pro and not playing. I would have a problem with a player who intends to go pro (and therefore will not play) not to so state. That course of action makes no sense. Yes, it may be that when he gets his draft evaluation, he changes his mind. The team may (or possibly make not) take him back. The player would gain nothing by making Shaw's life difficult in the interim. One would assume that is burning a bridge for sure.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - winflop - 12-19-2018

No need for further speculation on Herbig. He's gone

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - Mick - 12-20-2018

(12-19-2018, 09:46 PM)winflop Wrote: No need for further speculation on Herbig. He's gone

https://www.ruleoftree.com/2018/12/20/18150257/nate-herbig-declares-for-nfl-draft

RE: appears a former Stanford recruit also sitting out - Bruce Wang - 12-21-2018

Do you guys remember Ricky Town, the #2 2015 QB that we lost to Bama then $C? He ended up at Arkansas, and then a JUCO and finally our next opponent.

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2018/12/20/quarterback-ricky-town-leaves-pitt/

RE: appears a former Stanford recruit also sitting out - JohnR34231 - 12-21-2018

(12-21-2018, 07:54 AM)Publius Wrote: Do you guys remember Ricky Town, the #2 2015 QB that we lost to Bama then $C? He ended up at Arkansas, and then a JUCO and finally our next opponent.

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2018/12/20/quarterback-ricky-town-leaves-pitt/

Ricky obviously never lived up to his HS press clippings. There was speculation that he had been pressed too hard as a young person and was burned out by the time he hit college.

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - SF_Cardinal_Fan - 12-30-2018

I have no idea in which round Love will be drafted. Does anybody here care to take a guess ?

RE: Bryce Love sitting out Sun Bowl to prepare for NFL - BobK - 12-30-2018

I’ll go 3rd. If he hadn’t had his operation/procedure he drops to 5-6.

Love gave his all deserves our love