WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - cardfan77 - 01-13-2019
I’m just so happy for Anna Wilson. Great game against ASU and great job defending McDonald. I’m so glad is she playing significant minutes again.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - TheFarm07 - 01-13-2019
(01-13-2019, 07:04 PM)2006alum Wrote: BTW, Smith is on her way to an A-A kind of season: in conference play she's averaging a double-double, 4.5 blocks per game, a 3:2 blocks:fouls ratio, and >.900 from the line. And she's on pace to average the highest ppg (19.7 on the season) of any Cardinal since Chiney in 13-14. I can't remember the last time we've had such a complete player - neither Jayne nor the Ogwumikes were solid outside shooters, and Candice was never a blocking and rebounding machine.
Totally agree with you, 2006alum. I think we've all been waiting for Alanna to maximize all of the talents she has, which we have seen makes her so difficult to defend. She has the range and shooting ability to hit mid-range jumpers and 3-pointers with regularity but she also has the height and strength to post up and score points in the paint. Her versatility makes her a matchup nightmare. One of the keys for her is to stay out of foul trouble, but when she does, she can be a very lethal defender as well, as demonstrated by her 7 blocks today.
I am really glad she was able to discover all of this before she graduates and especially this season when we needed her leadership and presence on the court
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - TheFarm07 - 01-13-2019
(01-13-2019, 07:04 PM)2006alum Wrote: And I'll say it again: it's also a testament to Tara's prescience in switching to the Princeton. This team has really come into their own running this offense, and Smith's versatility would never have been as pronounced under the old triangle offense. I am really in awe of Tara's chessmaster-like ability to see three moves (and seasons) ahead of everybody else. Jones is the epitome of a positionless, Princeton-style player, and both Prechtell and Brink are apparently extraordinarily versatile for bigs. I really really hope Tara will get one more championship before she mic drops. She 'deserves' it under every definition of that word.
Losing Fingall for the year certainly hurts our chances this season. Her presence added interior scoring and defense and depth in the forward/post position. Even if/when Maya returns, not having Nadia to provide a different look and provide relief for Maya and Alanna for rest/foul reasons will hurt against the tougher teams. Having said all that, we have the talent to make a deep run in March, but I believe we might be a year removed from being a favorite for the national title. But I would not be surprised (and I would be very happy) if we made the Final Four in two and a half months.
Next year, losing Alanna will certainly be a major blow to the team but we will still have two of the "Big Three" in DiJonai and Kiana. Plus I hope that Haley Jones and the freshman class can step right in and contribute right away. One single player won't replace Smith's production, but the entering class is extremely talented and I think all four of them can make meaningful contributions right away. Furthermore, the returning players will have more one year of experience under their belt, and I anticipate Brown and the Hull sisters making even more improvement over the summer. Plus I think Fingall and Maya will be a formidable duo inside. I look for the team to be a serious contender for the national title next year.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - qwerty49 - 01-14-2019
(01-13-2019, 11:15 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote:(01-13-2019, 07:04 PM)2006alum Wrote: And I'll say it again: it's also a testament to Tara's prescience in switching to the Princeton. This team has really come into their own running this offense, and Smith's versatility would never have been as pronounced under the old triangle offense. I am really in awe of Tara's chessmaster-like ability to see three moves (and seasons) ahead of everybody else. Jones is the epitome of a positionless, Princeton-style player, and both Prechtell and Brink are apparently extraordinarily versatile for bigs. I really really hope Tara will get one more championship before she mic drops. She 'deserves' it under every definition of that word.
Losing Fingall for the year certainly hurts our chances this season. Her presence added interior scoring and defense and depth in the forward/post position. Even if/when Maya returns, not having Nadia to provide a different look and provide relief for Maya and Alanna for rest/foul reasons will hurt against the tougher teams. Having said all that, we have the talent to make a deep run in March, but I believe we might be a year removed from being a favorite for the national title. But I would not be surprised (and I would be very happy) if we made the Final Four in two and a half months.
Next year, losing Alanna will certainly be a major blow to the team but we will still have two of the "Big Three" in DiJonai and Kiana. Plus I hope that Haley Jones and the freshman class can step right in and contribute right away. One single player won't replace Smith's production, but the entering class is extremely talented and I think all four of them can make meaningful contributions right away. Furthermore, the returning players will have more one year of experience under their belt, and I anticipate Brown and the Hull sisters making even more improvement over the summer. Plus I think Fingall and Maya will be a formidable duo inside. I look for the team to be a serious contender for the national title next year.
Smith is just a joy to watch this year. You can see she’s having fun out there.
Carrington seems to make at least one play every game that makes me pause the DVR and rewind.
Brown might be the best athlete Tara has had for quite some time. She’s got plenty of upside left.
There’s a lot to like about this team. They show improvement every game since conference play started.
I agree with your assessment re next year. As far as this year goes, let’s first see if Dodson can come back healthy, and what ripple effect that might have on the rotation. I was ready to write us off after Fingall went down, but this weekend was very encouraging.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - M T - 01-14-2019
I went back and watched the Arizona offense against Stanford. I respectfully disagree with the comments about how great Lacie & Lexie & Anna, etc were in their guarding. Not that they were bad, just that Aari seemed always to get clear. Rarely were they the reason for Aari to fail to score. My belief is that the clogged middle blocked most of what she would ordinarily do (not just blocks or threatened blocks on drives, but also her choosing to do something else because drives to the basket weren't working). Probably though, the fact that the defenders usually went over the screen (resulting in some fouls) impacted her play.
When Aari tried, she was almost always able to get separation from her guard by cutting around someone who stepped in for a screen. We got burned for a 3pt attempt when we went under the screen, and got several fouls by going over the screen. (We had 6 fouls on defense against her.)
The number of possessions(how I counted them) they were guarding Aari:
Lacie: 32; Anna: 15; Lexie: 5; Mikaela: 3; Kiana: 3; Jenna: 1
Of the 59 possessions she was in for,
in 15 she never got the ball (mostly because she was well away from the play)
in 4 her shot was blocked
in 3 she passed out of the lane because of a threatened block
in 11 her shot missed (1 possession had 2 misses)
in 6 she hit a 2-pointer, of which 2 had a plus-1 FT, (at least one of which was a consolation-prize foul)
in 4 someone fouled her
Lacie clearly was the designated defender. I thought it was interesting for her to trade off with her twin (keeping the defender fresher than Aari), but it seemed Lexie wasn't quite able to do this as she got two quick fouls trying to go around screens. Although it was a small sample size, I thought Kiana may have done the best job of keeping up with her. (But Aari shot over Kiana & DiJonai during a fast break, so I expect Lacie's length was critical for the defensive assignment.)
I don't see anything too revealing, but here are some comparisons of her season and the Stanford game.
For the season, she shot 102/176 (58%) 3FGA/2FGA. Against Stanford, 6/16 (37.5%).
From 2pt range, she was 100/176 (57%) 2FG/2FGA. Against Stanford, 6/16 (37.5%).
From 3pt range, she was 32/102 (31%) 3FG/3FGA. Against Stanford 0/6 (0%)
From FT, she was 96/121 (79.3%) FT/FTA. Against Stanford 5/6 (83.3%)
(Her 33 minutes in the Stanford game is close to her season average of 32.6, so I'll use per game averages, vs per minute)
For the season, she shot 176/15 (11.7) 2FGA/game. Against Stanford, 16.
For the season, she shot 102/15 (6.8) 3FGA/game. Against Stanford, 6.
For the season, she shot 121/15 (8) FT/game. Against Stanford 6.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - 81alum - 01-14-2019
(01-14-2019, 06:02 AM)M T Wrote: I went back and watched the Arizona offense against Stanford. I respectfully disagree with the comments about how great Lacie & Lexie & Anna, etc were in their guarding. Not that they were bad, just that Aari seemed always to get clear. Rarely were they the reason for Aari to fail to score. My belief is that the clogged middle blocked most of what she would ordinarily do (not just blocks or threatened blocks on drives, but also her choosing to do something else because drives to the basket weren't working). Probably though, the fact that the defenders usually went over the screen (resulting in some fouls) impacted her play.Fascinating research, MT! My feeling too was that it was Alanna's blocks (And Alyssa) that did the most to reign McDonald in--she seemed to be able to get around everyone. But did you notice if our defense had any kind of scheme to channel McDonald right or left? And how were our bigs able to block so many? Perhaps this was by design? I don't dvr the games and so I can't say.
When Aari tried, she was almost always able to get separation from her guard by cutting around someone who stepped in for a screen. We got burned for a 3pt attempt when we went under the screen, and got several fouls by going over the screen. (We had 6 fouls on defense against her.)
The number of possessions(how I counted them) they were guarding Aari:
Lacie: 32; Anna: 15; Lexie: 5; Mikaela: 3; Kiana: 3; Jenna: 1
Of the 59 possessions she was in for,
in 15 she never got the ball (mostly because she was well away from the play)
in 4 her shot was blocked
in 3 she passed out of the lane because of a threatened block
in 11 her shot missed (1 possession had 2 misses)
in 6 she hit a 2-pointer, of which 2 had a plus-1 FT, (at least one of which was a consolation-prize foul)
in 4 someone fouled her
Lacie clearly was the designated defender. I thought it was interesting for her to trade off with her twin (keeping the defender fresher than Aari), but it seemed Lexie wasn't quite able to do this as she got two quick fouls trying to go around screens. Although it was a small sample size, I thought Kiana may have done the best job of keeping up with her. (But Aari shot over Kiana & DiJonai during a fast break, so I expect Lacie's length was critical for the defensive assignment.)
I don't see anything too revealing, but here are some comparisons of her season and the Stanford game.
For the season, she shot 102/176 (58%) 3FGA/2FGA. Against Stanford, 6/16 (37.5%).
From 2pt range, she was 100/176 (57%) 2FG/2FGA. Against Stanford, 6/16 (37.5%).
From 3pt range, she was 32/102 (31%) 3FG/3FGA. Against Stanford 0/6 (0%)
From FT, she was 96/121 (79.3%) FT/FTA. Against Stanford 5/6 (83.3%)
(Her 33 minutes in the Stanford game is close to her season average of 32.6, so I'll use per game averages, vs per minute)
For the season, she shot 176/15 (11.7) 2FGA/game. Against Stanford, 16.
For the season, she shot 102/15 (6.8) 3FGA/game. Against Stanford, 6.
For the season, she shot 121/15 (8) FT/game. Against Stanford 6.
Some players are just gifted and cannot be defended one on one. Plum was certainly like that and I remember Tara saying that it was OK sometimes to give up 30 if you can make the opponent one dimensional. But with a player that short and a defender in post with a long reach you can expect to get some blocks, and we did. Without our 8 blocks I imagine McDonald's stats would have looked quite different, although you indicate that only 4 of them were on McDonald. In fact, if those 4 blocked shots all went in, then McDonald would have scored right around her average, no?
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - BobK - 01-14-2019
Respectfully disagree. Our defense on McDonald was very good one on one.
But enjoyed reading your detailed analysis.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - mbdude - 01-14-2019
Adia Barnes:"They weren’t really letting her go around. … I think they defended us really well. They made Aari really work and take tough shots.”
In my opinion it really has nothing to do with stopping her shot, it's making her take tough shots as mentioned above, and forcing her to go where we want her to go
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - BosCard - 01-14-2019
I agree, very good analysis. But my recollection was that the defense was quite good. Lacie did a good job of using her length to bother McDonald and Wilson used her speed to stay in front of her. You can’t completely stop a very good player but you can make life difficult for them.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - M T - 01-14-2019
The gamut of defense could run from "Never guarded" to "never able to get the ball or bottled up if gets the ball". Obviously we or any one else has not had her at either end of that scale. I suspect we did a better job at making her work for the ball than other teams. But, as I saw it, when she wanted the ball, she got away from her defender usually with the help of screens.
As far as controlling what Aari did, I did notice Lacie guarded her high (away from the endline) when she was on the baseline. That makes sense to me as the most devastating (to us) screens where she would go around a high screen and take a sharp turn to the basket. The longer runs across the lane (near the endline) gave Aari some space (with the help of a screen or two) but she would be going away from the basket. Slowing down & turning would cost time that offers us a chance to catch up or someone to shift on her. (Now that I think about it, couldn't the defender of the screener step out on the far side to make it a longer path (like posts so often do) and to defend if she stops & shoots, allowing Aari's defender to go under the screen? I guess that must be vulnerable to a break to the basket by the screener or something.)
I was sorta surprised at how often Aari stayed out of the play entirely. When she's on the move, she adds chaos to the rest of the court.
(It hasn't worked for me before, but I'm trying to attach my spreadsheet of all the possession when she was on the court. Seems not to work for me. Drop me a PM if you want it.)
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - Spike - 01-14-2019
Trying to guard a speedy guard like Aari is like trying to guard a great wide receiver with single coverage. Not doable.
So Lacie’s job was to harass and make Aari drive into the paint where our interior defense really bottled her up. A great slashing guard would be able to find the open player when driving into traffic. Did Aari have any assists?
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - crackpot - 01-14-2019
(01-14-2019, 03:26 PM)Spike Wrote: Trying to guard a speedy guard like Aari is like trying to guard a great wide receiver with single coverage. Not doable.
So Lacie’s job was to harass and make Aari drive into the paint where our interior defense really bottled her up. A great slashing guard would be able to find the open player when driving into traffic. Did Aari have any assists?
Oooh, good point.
Aari had zero assists.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - 81alum - 01-14-2019
(01-14-2019, 09:31 AM)mbdude Wrote: Adia Barnes:"They weren’t really letting her go around. … I think they defended us really well. They made Aari really work and take tough shots.”Here is the full quote which is even more emphatic:
In my opinion it really has nothing to do with stopping her shot, it's making her take tough shots as mentioned above, and forcing her to go where we want her to go
“I think they just made her work really hard,” Barnes said. “They had three people in the paint. They forced her to shoot, a lot of times, into (Stanford’s) Alanna Smith’s hands. They weren’t really letting her go around. … I think they defended us really well. They made Aari really work and take tough shots.”
And another quote from Barnes:
“Everybody was in the paint, they had hands on balls, she could barely turn the corner,” Barnes said of McDonald, who had bigger defenders draped all over her. “But a lot of the shots she missed she usually makes.”
By clogging the paint with our sagging man, and by channeling her into the paint, she was shooting into a shot blocker.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - 2006alum - 01-14-2019
(01-14-2019, 07:04 PM)81alum Wrote: By clogging the paint with our sagging man, and by channeling her into the paint, she was shooting into a shot blocker.In other words, Tara is the best scouting coach in the country. I never cease to be impressed by how well she takes away the other team's best weapon, year after year, personnel after personnel, almost without fail.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - 81alum - 01-15-2019
(01-14-2019, 08:33 PM)2006alum Wrote:Yes, this is her defensive genius. Her version of the "scouting report defense" has great success against teams with 1 or two dominant players. It is perfect for our own personnel because they have the intelligence to execute sophisticated defensive game plans even when we do not always have elite athletes at all five positions. It has a weakness, though--when playing against teams that have 3 or 4 or even 5 equally talented offensive players then her bottomless bag of tricks does not work so well. Also a weakness is when we force an unexpected player on the opposition to carry their offense and they do--resulting in stars with limited production and unheralded others with plenty. In our (fortunately few) losses this is often the way we lose.(01-14-2019, 07:04 PM)81alum Wrote: By clogging the paint with our sagging man, and by channeling her into the paint, she was shooting into a shot blocker.In other words, Tara is the best scouting coach in the country. I never cease to be impressed by how well she takes away the other team's best weapon, year after year, personnel after personnel, almost without fail.
For example, our elite 8 loss to Washington in 2016, when we "held" Plum to 26 but gave up double digit points to three other Washington players, or last year's loss at Cal where we kept Anigwe to a respectable 11 points but let Asha Thomas score 25. And most instructive is the loss at Gonzaga this year, where we held their leading scorer Zykera Rice who shoots 52% and 14 pg to 1/6 shooting for 4 points, but gave up 20 points and 15 points to two players who are averaging 8 and 9 ppg. There was a game earlier this year when we were guarding a devastatingly good three point shooter only to let a freshman who had barely played hit a mess of treys--since we had no scouting report on her! (That may have been Idaho?)
Tara is a genius at scouting teams, as was perhaps best on display against Baylor this year. But it works by exploiting weaknesses. We sag off of the poor shooters and double the good ones. I have seen Tara deliberately leave an opposing player open, daring her to shoot, while using her "defender" to cut off passes to the most talented shooters. It is a little like what other teams did to Sniezek at times. However, teams where all five players can score are the hardest for Tara to defend.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - TheFarm07 - 01-15-2019
(01-15-2019, 07:56 AM)81alum Wrote:(01-14-2019, 08:33 PM)2006alum Wrote:Yes, this is her defensive genius. Her version of the "scouting report defense" has great success against teams with 1 or two dominant players. It is perfect for our own personnel because they have the intelligence to execute sophisticated defensive game plans even when we do not always have elite athletes at all five positions. It has a weakness, though--when playing against teams that have 3 or 4 or even 5 equally talented offensive players then her bottomless bag of tricks does not work so well. Also a weakness is when we force an unexpected player on the opposition to carry their offense and they do--resulting in stars with limited production and unheralded others with plenty. In our (fortunately few) losses this is often the way we lose.(01-14-2019, 07:04 PM)81alum Wrote: By clogging the paint with our sagging man, and by channeling her into the paint, she was shooting into a shot blocker.In other words, Tara is the best scouting coach in the country. I never cease to be impressed by how well she takes away the other team's best weapon, year after year, personnel after personnel, almost without fail.
For example, our elite 8 loss to Washington in 2016, when we "held" Plum to 26 but gave up double digit points to three other Washington players, or last year's loss at Cal where we kept Anigwe to a respectable 11 points but let Asha Thomas score 25. And most instructive is the loss at Gonzaga this year, where we held their leading scorer Zykera Rice who shoots 52% and 14 pg to 1/6 shooting for 4 points, but gave up 20 points and 15 points to two players who are averaging 8 and 9 ppg. There was a game earlier this year when we were guarding a devastatingly good three point shooter only to let a freshman who had barely played hit a mess of treys--since we had no scouting report on her! (That may have been Idaho?)
Tara is a genius at scouting teams, as was perhaps best on display against Baylor this year. But it works by exploiting weaknesses. We sag off of the poor shooters and double the good ones. I have seen Tara deliberately leave an opposing player open, daring her to shoot, while using her "defender" to cut off passes to the most talented shooters. It is a little like what other teams did to Sniezek at times. However, teams where all five players can score are the hardest for Tara to defend.
Agreed 81, that's how our run in the NCAA tournament often comes to an end, when we come up against a top tier team with too many threats to shut down and we can't keep up with them
What can help mitigate this weakness however is our own varied myriad of threats that the other team can't all shut down. Hopefully, with Tara's haul of recruiting classes, that will be what happens over the next few years. One example of a lineup that Tara can send out next season of Brown, Williams, Hull, Jones, and Dodson will be mighty difficult to defend (and that is just one of many iterations that Tara will have at her disposal and virtually all of them will be a handful for opponents). Our incoming class promises offensive firepower: from one description Ashten Prechtel sounds like another version of Alanna coming in (a post player with the range to hit the 3), Jump is an extremely potent 3-point threat, we've all seen Belibi's dunking prowess and Jones' accolades speak for themselves. Combined that with DiJonai's tenacity and penchant for big shots, Kiana's ability to hit insane long-range 3-pointers and her crossover leaving defenders in the dust, Fingall's eagerness to get back on the court after her knee injury, I can go on and on... If our defense can come up with big stops, then our offense can surely rise to the occasion
Even this year and without Fingall, we are fielding our own team which is very difficult to defend. If you try doubling on one of the "Big Three," the Hull sisters, Dodson, Jerome, Fingall (before she got injured), Anna, Brown, have all proven they can make opponents pay for leaving them space.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - Hurlburt88 - 01-15-2019
Is the defensive prowess of our incoming class in line with their offensive skills? I know for a couple it is....and if across the board, I look forward to the wet blanket we will throw on our opponents!
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - BobK - 01-15-2019
Offense always far ahead of defense coming out of HS and as Frosh. Which make the Hulls so good.
I don't know much about Belibi's coaches but the other three have excellent HS and Travel coaches. That's a big step
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - BosCard - 01-15-2019
I believe Belibi had a significant role on the U17 US team primarily because of her defense and rebounding. She is very strong and thus doesn't get pushed around in the post. Plus, she is very quick and has extremely long arms so probably would be a nightmare defending perimeter players or say at the top of a zone disrupting passes.
However, there is a big difference between being a very good individual defender and learning how to play Stanford team defense. Maya Dodson had a very similar skill set her freshman year but often seemed lost and out of position her freshman year. One year later, it is a different story and her team defense has risen to match her individual skills.
RE: WBB: Stanford 78 Arizona 48 - M T - 01-15-2019
Getting an assist requires a teammate to hit a shot. It helps to have good scorers (good shooter & ready to shoot) as teammates. Replace McDonald with Ionescu, and Ionescu would have a lot fewer assists.
I failed to take note of possible assists, but I did note her passes. Often times, her passes were more to bail her out than passes to someone ready to shoot. I see at least 3 passes I noted that I believe were to a player in position to shoot.
passes/her touches (possibly 0 or multiple touches per team possession)
1: 1/11
2: 2/8
3: 8/13
4: 5/12
I suspect the halftime adjustment was "Don't force the shot, pass the ball out." That's why Alanna stayed at 7 blocks.
(01-14-2019, 06:39 PM)crackpot Wrote:(01-14-2019, 03:26 PM)Spike Wrote: Trying to guard a speedy guard like Aari is like trying to guard a great wide receiver with single coverage. Not doable.
So Lacie’s job was to harass and make Aari drive into the paint where our interior defense really bottled her up. A great slashing guard would be able to find the open player when driving into traffic. Did Aari have any assists?
Oooh, good point.
Aari had zero assists.