Anyone who believes... - Printable Version

Anyone who believes... - Printable Version

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RE: Anyone who believes... - gailtate - 11-10-2019

(11-10-2019, 09:04 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 08:30 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:24 PM)BobK Wrote: Well actually both Christianson and Dowhauer were given the keys

Not a good comparison, and it was a dramatically different football world in the 1970s. What's more, neither Christiansen nor Dowhower inherited the depth, system and recruiting momentum that was bequeathed by JH to DS after the Orange Bowl in 2011. Dowhower, after one season, realized that he hated the head-coaching job at Stanford and resigned. He should have avoided it elsewhere, too. In the mid '80s at Vanderbilt he was fired after a two-year stint an a 10-23-1 record. In the 90s, as HC of Colts in the NFL, he departed after two years and a record of 5-24. Chris was never a HC again.

Point is, Shaw was astute enough to effectively exploit the Harbaugh momentum, but even then he was revealing the flaws that would doom him later, finding ways to lose eminently winnable games in the 2012 Fiesta Bowl and 2014 Rose Bowls for example, and steadily allowing his coaching staff to erode and recruiting to slip significantly. The deeper problem I see, however, is a temperament/personality issue. He seems to want to be the smartest guy in the room all the time and is uncomfortable "hiring up" and encouraging creative conflict. I say his best days are behind him if he cannot grow out of his self-made straight-jacket. Guy needs an intervention.

So even though be took us to four major bowl games in his first five years, you could see his flaws because he lost two of them.
Tough crowd here.

I see a half-empty glass today because Shaw started with a FULL one: Compare those "first five years" to the last four. Shaw is in the Results Business, something he knows all too well. And the recent results show decline. He needs better athletes and better assistants, of a quality associated with what he inherited. Most important, he needs to courage to get and take better advice.

lex24 - lex24 - 11-10-2019

Shaw gets credit for the success he had over those years. To say otherwise is just horseshit. It wasn’t Harbaugh running the team. Shaw was the head coach when they won three championships. Shaw deserves credit for that. Period. Harbaugh left 9 years ago for Crissakes.

Yeah things are going downhill right now. Let’s see if he can turn it around. But to not give him credit for what he did achieve is pure bulk. And intellectually dishonest. Essentially it boils down to when they suck it’s Shaws fault and when they do well it’s in spite of Shaw. Horse Puckey.

(11-10-2019, 10:22 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 09:04 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 08:30 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:24 PM)BobK Wrote: Well actually both Christianson and Dowhauer were given the keys

Not a good comparison, and it was a dramatically different football world in the 1970s. What's more, neither Christiansen nor Dowhower inherited the depth, system and recruiting momentum that was bequeathed by JH to DS after the Orange Bowl in 2011. Dowhower, after one season, realized that he hated the head-coaching job at Stanford and resigned. He should have avoided it elsewhere, too. In the mid '80s at Vanderbilt he was fired after a two-year stint an a 10-23-1 record. In the 90s, as HC of Colts in the NFL, he departed after two years and a record of 5-24. Chris was never a HC again.

Point is, Shaw was astute enough to effectively exploit the Harbaugh momentum, but even then he was revealing the flaws that would doom him later, finding ways to lose eminently winnable games in the 2012 Fiesta Bowl and 2014 Rose Bowls for example, and steadily allowing his coaching staff to erode and recruiting to slip significantly. The deeper problem I see, however, is a temperament/personality issue. He seems to want to be the smartest guy in the room all the time and is uncomfortable "hiring up" and encouraging creative conflict. I say his best days are behind him if he cannot grow out of his self-made straight-jacket. Guy needs an intervention.

So even though be took us to four major bowl games in his first five years, you could see his flaws because he lost two of them.
Tough crowd here.

I see a half-empty glass today because Shaw started with a FULL one: Compare those "first five years" to the last four. Shaw is in the Results Business, something he knows all too well. And the recent results show decline. He needs better athletes and better assistants, of a quality associated with what he inherited. Most important, he needs to courage to get and take better advice.

RE: Anyone who believes... - JohnR34231 - 11-10-2019

(11-10-2019, 10:22 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 09:04 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 08:30 AM)gailtate Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:24 PM)BobK Wrote: Well actually both Christianson and Dowhauer were given the keys

Not a good comparison, and it was a dramatically different football world in the 1970s. What's more, neither Christiansen nor Dowhower inherited the depth, system and recruiting momentum that was bequeathed by JH to DS after the Orange Bowl in 2011. Dowhower, after one season, realized that he hated the head-coaching job at Stanford and resigned. He should have avoided it elsewhere, too. In the mid '80s at Vanderbilt he was fired after a two-year stint an a 10-23-1 record. In the 90s, as HC of Colts in the NFL, he departed after two years and a record of 5-24. Chris was never a HC again.

Point is, Shaw was astute enough to effectively exploit the Harbaugh momentum, but even then he was revealing the flaws that would doom him later, finding ways to lose eminently winnable games in the 2012 Fiesta Bowl and 2014 Rose Bowls for example, and steadily allowing his coaching staff to erode and recruiting to slip significantly. The deeper problem I see, however, is a temperament/personality issue. He seems to want to be the smartest guy in the room all the time and is uncomfortable "hiring up" and encouraging creative conflict. I say his best days are behind him if he cannot grow out of his self-made straight-jacket. Guy needs an intervention.

So even though be took us to four major bowl games in his first five years, you could see his flaws because he lost two of them.
Tough crowd here.

I see a half-empty glass today because Shaw started with a FULL one: Compare those "first five years" to the last four. Shaw is in the Results Business, something he knows all too well. And the recent results show decline. He needs better athletes and better assistants, of a quality associated with what he inherited. Most important, he needs to courage to get and take better advice.

Well when you go to four major bowls in five years, it is pretty hard not to show decline. Unless of course, you are an Ohio State, Clemson, or Alabama.

RE: Anyone who believes... - Hulk01 - 11-10-2019

Mills's opponent-adjusted PER:154.7, 24th in the country.

Costello's: 108.6; 121st.

Seems like we have a choice-of-quarterback's problem.

RE: Anyone who believes... - JohnR34231 - 11-10-2019

(11-10-2019, 01:09 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Mills's opponent-adjusted PER:154.7, 24th in the country.

Costello's: 108.6; 121st.

Seems like we have a choice-of-quarterback's problem.

I would agree with you if Mills could stay healthy.
Unfortunately, he can't.

RE: Anyone who believes... - qwerty49 - 11-10-2019

(11-10-2019, 01:16 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 01:09 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Mills's opponent-adjusted PER:154.7, 24th in the country.

Costello's: 108.6; 121st.

Seems like we have a choice-of-quarterback's problem.

I would agree with you if Mills could stay healthy.
Unfortunately, he can't.

Mills may appear to be more effective at this point, but Shaw and Bruce Bochy value seniority very highly. There must be exceptions, maybe starting Kelly over Eboh is one.

RE: Anyone who believes... - Phogge - 11-10-2019

Lex, Lex, Lex.... as a Thunderdome regular you know that EVERYTHING is Bush’s fault.

RE: Anyone who believes... - JohnR34231 - 11-11-2019

(11-10-2019, 02:46 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 01:16 PM)JohnR34231 Wrote:
(11-10-2019, 01:09 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Mills's opponent-adjusted PER:154.7, 24th in the country.

Costello's: 108.6; 121st.

Seems like we have a choice-of-quarterback's problem.

I would agree with you if Mills could stay healthy.
Unfortunately, he can't.

Mills may appear to be more effective at this point, but Shaw and Bruce Bochy value seniority very highly. There must be exceptions, maybe starting Kelly over Eboh is one.

None of that matters if Mills is unable to play. Hopefully he finally will be this week.

RE: Anyone who believes... - fullmetal - 11-11-2019

Shaw has shown that he can win with a program given the right staff and players. He hasn't done what's been needed to maintain that level of excellence as judged by the results on the field. Can he succeed under suboptimal conditions? The evidence shows not...so I sure hope he's working on ways to get that level of talent back on the coaching staff and in the recruiting classes. (One would expect this kind of effort to have started earlier, but again, judging by the results on the field, I'm not certain.)

Even with these poor season results, Shaw has been a historically good coach. However, his trend line has plummeted, which bodes ill for the near future. If we care at all about this season and the seasons to come, we need to take our eyes off the past and look to the future.

RE: Anyone who believes... - winflop - 11-12-2019

(11-11-2019, 07:14 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Even with these poor season results, Shaw has been a historically good coach. However, his trend line has plummeted, which bodes ill for the near future. If we care at all about this season and the seasons to come, we need to take our eyes off the past and look to the future.

Spot on. If Shaw does not make significant changes in his staff, he runs the risk of more season like this which will lead to his removal.

RE: Anyone who believes... - gailtate - 11-12-2019

(11-11-2019, 07:14 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Shaw has shown that he can win with a program given the right staff and players. He hasn't done what's been needed to maintain that level of excellence as judged by the results on the field. Can he succeed under suboptimal conditions? The evidence shows not...so I sure hope he's working on ways to get that level of talent back on the coaching staff and in the recruiting classes. (One would expect this kind of effort to have started earlier, but again, judging by the results on the field, I'm not certain.)

Even with these poor season results, Shaw has been a historically good coach. However, his trend line has plummeted, which bodes ill for the near future. If we care at all about this season and the seasons to come, we need to take our eyes off the past and look to the future.

You nailed it. I just take it further. It's a case of someone who goes through his inheritance, failing to re-invest and replenish along the way. We lived high during those first five years. Today? Just scraping by while the bills pile up.

RE: Anyone who believes... - SamuelMcF - 11-12-2019

(11-12-2019, 07:10 AM)winflop Wrote:
(11-11-2019, 07:14 PM)fullmetal Wrote: Even with these poor season results, Shaw has been a historically good coach. However, his trend line has plummeted, which bodes ill for the near future. If we care at all about this season and the seasons to come, we need to take our eyes off the past and look to the future.

Spot on. If Shaw does not make significant changes in his staff, he runs the risk of more season like this which will lead to his removal.

This implies Muir will actually do something.

RE: Anyone who believes... - slide - 11-12-2019

(11-12-2019, 11:00 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote: This implies Muir will actually do something.

very doutbful. he'll watch the penny counting operations run by the corner offices.

RE: Anyone who believes... - winflop - 11-12-2019

(11-12-2019, 11:41 AM)slide Wrote:
(11-12-2019, 11:00 AM)SamuelMcF Wrote: This implies Muir will actually do something.

very doutbful. he'll watch the penny counting operations run by the corner offices.

A couple more seasons like this one and there will be fewer pennies to count and voices will get substantially louder.

Then again, Muir sat on Dawkins for at least three more years than he should have. But MBB never was bringing in much if any money for the AD during Muir's entire tenure. Maples was already an empty shell of its former self.