MBB: vs Oklahoma - Printable Version

MBB: vs Oklahoma - Printable Version

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RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - JJJ - 11-25-2019

Thanks, everyone! I hope to be able to catch tomorrow's game!
#butmaybeishouldntwatch

Highlights:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7wKV_rKUE

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - OutsiderFan - 11-26-2019

Terry, Jones, and Davis are clearly Stanford’s best players. Was surprised how little of an impact I saw from da Silva. Wills was OK, but 2-7 FT shooting is 100% unacceptable from a Guard.

Shocking how thin the bench is. Only 8 bench points until last 5 mins seems a real problem. Delaire can put the ball in the cylinder a bit and he was good at the line last night, but other than him, yikes. One of my biggest observations was Isaac White only getting last 5 mins of game. This is a guy who started a few years ago, right? It must be Hasse is prioritizing defense over offense.

Man, if only Okpala had returned this year. He hasn’t even scored a single point with Miami so far, but riding NBA pine for money when 19 is better than starting in college basketball, enjoying the college experience I guess.

Whatever the case, the team finally looks like what one looks like under a good coach. Not much at rim athleticism or depth so would temper enthusiasm, but finally a team that won’t hurt to watch play.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - PVTree - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 05:06 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Terry, Jones, and Davis are clearly Stanford’s best players. Was surprised how little of an impact I saw from da Silva. Wills was OK, but 2-7 FT shooting is 100% unacceptable from a Guard.

Shocking how thin the bench is. Only 8 bench points until last 5 mins seems a real problem. Delaire can put the ball in the cylinder a bit and he was good at the line last night, but other than him, yikes. One of my biggest observations was Isaac White only getting last 5 mins of game. This is a guy who started a few years ago, right? It must be Hasse is prioritizing defense over offense.

Man, if only Okpala had returned this year. He hasn’t even scored a single point with Miami so far, but riding NBA pine for money when 19 is better than starting in college basketball, enjoying the college experience I guess.

Whatever the case, the team finally looks like what one looks like under a good coach. Not much at rim athleticism or depth so would temper enthusiasm, but finally a team that won’t hurt to watch play.

No, White has never been a starter. Perhaps you're thinking of Cartwright?

It's the XXI-century Stanford law...both the football team and basketball teams can't be good at the same time. Basketball team rising so the football team needs to go down...something like the 80s movie Ladyhawke.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - burger - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 05:06 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Man, if only Okpala had returned this year. He hasn’t even scored a single point with Miami so far, but riding NBA pine for money when 19 is better than starting in college basketball, enjoying the college experience I guess.

Okpala has an achilles strain and has been unavailable for every game except the first couple this season. He got a 3-year guaranteed contract from the Heat, which is unusual for a second rounder. I expect he will get playing time sooner or later.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - GK3 - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 05:06 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Terry, Jones, and Davis are clearly Stanford’s best players. Was surprised how little of an impact I saw from da Silva. Wills was OK, but 2-7 FT shooting is 100% unacceptable from a Guard.

Shocking how thin the bench is. Only 8 bench points until last 5 mins seems a real problem. Delaire can put the ball in the cylinder a bit and he was good at the line last night, but other than him, yikes. One of my biggest observations was Isaac White only getting last 5 mins of game. This is a guy who started a few years ago, right? It must be Hasse is prioritizing defense over offense.

Man, if only Okpala had returned this year. He hasn’t even scored a single point with Miami so far, but riding NBA pine for money when 19 is better than starting in college basketball, enjoying the college experience I guess.

Whatever the case, the team finally looks like what one looks like under a good coach. Not much at rim athleticism or depth so would temper enthusiasm, but finally a team that won’t hurt to watch play.

Da Silva has had his moments in other games. Staff seems very good at identifying how to attack opposing teams. When teams take Da Silva out of the game offensively, one of the other guys is left open. I would love to see Wills be a better scorer, but he is a lights out defender and forces lots of off target shots through his defense. I'll take that considering we have a lot of scoring options this year. Terry has had two double/doubles back to back I think, one alone is something for a point guard.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - BostonCard - 11-26-2019

I think the most remarkable stat of the game was the disparity in rebounds: 51 - 31, including a 15-6 disparity in offensive boards. Put a better way, we captured 15/40 rebounds available on our offensive end (37.5%), which is really good, while holding Oklahoma to 6/42 (14%) of the boards on their offensive end. To do it without a strong post presence is all the more remarkable. KUdos to Terry and DaSilva who each had 11 rebounds (double/double for Terry).

BC

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - burger - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 10:19 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I think the most remarkable stat of the game was the disparity in rebounds: 51 - 31, including a 15-6 disparity in offensive boards. Put a better way, we captured 15/40 rebounds available on our offensive end (37.5%), which is really good, while holding Oklahoma to 6/42 (14%) of the boards on their offensive end. To do it without a strong post presence is all the more remarkable. KUdos to Terry and DaSilva who each had 11 rebounds (double/double for Terry).

BC

I'm not surprised on the rebounding. What we lack in size we make up for in athleticism. Every one of our starters is quick and can jump. Per http://barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Stanford&year=2020 we're 20th in D-I in defensive rebounding %. The offensive rebounding stats aren't as good but are improving recently, as last night showed.

Butler does not start anyone over 6-9, so we should not be at a disadvantage there.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - fullmetal - 11-26-2019

I'm suddenly excited for the season, which should salve the pain of football's results. Hope the 6th Man turns out this year!

So, how did Haase and staff turn it around? And are those of us critical of Haase still expecting a down season, or did the OU game show something significant?

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - AlbanyCardinal - 11-26-2019

I wonder the same thing. I think the frosh have made the biggest difference, but the whole team is playing like a unit (in ways it never had the last three years), especially on defense. I remember hearing or reading that Haase emphasizes defense, and I kept wondering when it would show, if ever.

I started out bullish on the hire. His coaching profile, his zeal and recruiting, all had me excited for the program. Even into 2018, I was outspoken (with skeptical friends) in support of Haase, but by the end of last season, I'd almost given up on him. I'm slowly but steadily getting back on board. This is a very fun team to watch, and if good recruiting continues, look out.

(11-26-2019, 12:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I'm suddenly excited for the season, which should salve the pain of football's results. Hope the 6th Man turns out this year!

So, how did Haase and staff turn it around? And are those of us critical of Haase still expecting a down season, or did the OU game show something significant?

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - needle - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 12:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I'm suddenly excited for the season, which should salve the pain of football's results. Hope the 6th Man turns out this year!

So, how did Haase and staff turn it around? And are those of us critical of Haase still expecting a down season, or did the OU game show something significant?

[/quote]

Shortest answer for the turnaround: Stanford is tied for 9th nationally in 3pt. FG percentage with 42.4%.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/152

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - 76lsjumb - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 02:04 PM)needle Wrote:
(11-26-2019, 12:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I'm suddenly excited for the season, which should salve the pain of football's results. Hope the 6th Man turns out this year!

So, how did Haase and staff turn it around? And are those of us critical of Haase still expecting a down season, or did the OU game show something significant?

Shortest answer for the turnaround: Stanford is tied for 9th nationally in 3pt. FG percentage with 42.4%.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/152
[/quote]

So, what you’re saying is that Haase is a much better shooter than he was last year...? :-)

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - SamuelMcF - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 02:57 PM)76lsjumb Wrote:
(11-26-2019, 02:04 PM)needle Wrote:
(11-26-2019, 12:57 PM)fullmetal Wrote: I'm suddenly excited for the season, which should salve the pain of football's results. Hope the 6th Man turns out this year!

So, how did Haase and staff turn it around? And are those of us critical of Haase still expecting a down season, or did the OU game show something significant?

Shortest answer for the turnaround: Stanford is tied for 9th nationally in 3pt. FG percentage with 42.4%.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/152

So, what you’re saying is that Haase is a much better shooter than he was last year...? :-)

Longer answer :)

First and foremost, Stanford ranked #293 in the nation in 3pt% last year (31.7%). Going from that to our current #9 (42.4%) is jaw-dropping. We are also #22 in effective FG% (56.8%), compared to last year's #151 (51.2%). Some regression to the mean expected, but I see these metrics remaining markedly higher than last year's even accounting for that.

We've also improved on FTs. This year we're a could-be-better 71.6% FT (#134) vs. last year's downright terrible 67.3% (#298). (Consider only the top 40 teams make >75%.) Considering we're also shooting FTs slightly more often than last year (21.1/game vs. 20.7), this means we're averaging 1.2 more PPG due to JUST FREE THROWS. Last year that would've been enough to bring our scoring offense from #145 to #112, so combine that with our much better 3pt shooting and it's no surprise we're currently #63 in scoring offense.

Tyrell Terry is a true PG through whom the game can flow. Daejon Davis plays hard and aggressive on both ends of the floor, and is shooting 69% from 3 in his off-ball guard role. Plus he can play the point in spurts if needed while Terry breathes, as he was forced to do so in his first 2 years despite not really being a true PG. He was the best option we had.

Spencer Jones so far is the 3-point sharpshooter Cormac Ryan was hyped up to be. Ryan shot 31.6% from 3pt, and Jones currently at 52.5% (albeit the sample size is still small). Jones is also longer, and a real "3 and D" type threat that the NBA so covets. Amazing late find by the staff, and a major kudos to them. (KZ Okpala has crazy length, good athleticism, and a solid 3pt% of 36.8% to project as a 3-and-D guy in the NBA, FWIW.) Also of note: incoming freshman Brandon Angel is almost a clone of Spencer Jones. He's also a late bloomer at 6'7" and shot over 55% from 3pt at a major Adidas AAU tournament this summer.

The team's commitment to aggressive defense and super quick ball movement (tiring the opponent out and limiting their opportunities, almost like turtling!) is paying dividends. Even if we have an off night shooting, holding an opponent to just 56.7 pts and forcing 17 TOs per game - currently 16th and 24th in the country respectively - will still give us a chance to win. In my opinion, the super quick ball movement wasn't there in past years, and Terry has really catalyzed that part of our game without turning the ball over nearly as much as it appeared we did prior.

I'm excited about the future of this team if we keep this sort of energy up and nobody gets hurt (fingers crossed tight). Keep in mind our entire rotation returns next year with experience and more S&C under their belts, and if the incoming freshmen can contribute like our current frosh are, look out!

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - scorecard - 11-26-2019

Some thoughts:
- Agree that shooting is the #1 reason. 3 pointers are such a momentum turner in college hoops, nice to finally be on the good end of that again
- The parallels with the arrival of Terry certainly remind me of what happened with Brevin Knight (and I hope it is the launch of another revival of Stanford MBB). Undersized and underestimated, but really heady players that galvanize the team from the PG position. They are clearly different players with different strengths (Brevin not as good of a shooter, but his on-ball pressure and ability to penetrate or break a press were amazing; Terry can shoot it and has surprising ability to take it to the basket with clever finishes and even dunking at times). Both Knight and Terry also really have a nose for the ball, always seeming to be in the right place at the right time. Terry leads the team in steals currently at 2.6 per game (and the team is coming up with 9 per game, compared to 6 last year)
- Terry reminds me a bit of Steph Curry in regard to being an underrated rebounder. He has been great coming back to help rebound stray balls, has pulled over 10 rebounds in each of the last 2 games, and is the 2nd leading rebounder on the team at 5.1 per game (Da Silva at 5.9 leads)
- So nice to have a steady ball handler, as well as a dead-eye FT shooter at ends of games. Lack of turnovers really help our defense set up as well. Last year, all our primary ball handlers were very turnover prone (Davis and Okpala averaging about 3 per game) which is just a killer at ends of games.
- Seeing less of players passing up open shots and driving into traffic for offensive fouls or turnovers. Still have been some forced drives, Davis, Da Silva, and Delaire last night had some issues with this. Delaire and Wills had some sequences yesterday where they passed up open 3's and drove into trouble. It really works better if you at least take (and preferably make) a 3 first, pump fakes work a lot better if the defender actually fears you making a 3 and has to charge at you harder
- Jones has been a tremendous find, 50% shooter from 3 at this point with a really quick release, great hustling defense and actually leads the team in blocks at the moment.
- I think the defensive improvement stems from team wide hustle and better positioning, more athletic players with quicker feet, and great help defense. In recent years, we seemed to always have at least one weak defender who would get blown by or be out of position. Our starting five may be a bit undersized (but not that much because there really aren't that many great 7 footers in college left), but they are all good to excellent defenders. Davis and Wills can really defend the wings. In the past, we'd rotate our help defense and we'd be left with Sharma or a Reid Travis defending the 3 point line
- I wish Kodye Pugh was healthy this year
- I love the way James Keefe plays, just hustle all the time like his hair is not just red, but really is on fire. Great feet at 6'9". Unfortunately, he seems to have been screwed with some lousy ticky tack calls in some games that have reduced his playing time
- Growth of players from both getting older and also having been in a system for a couple years surely has helped. Da Silva looks stronger. They also look less like they are rotating and double teaming in a random chaotic fashion, which could work on lesser teams, but the good teams with discipline picked this apart
- Last night, we also did something we did a lot of in the Montgomery years. We made the opposing team play defense for most of the shot clock, and had off the ball movement, instead of a lot of isolation plays. Then we locked in on the other side and cleaned up the glass. Obviously we're not a juggernaut and still could use a bit more off the bench, but it has been so much more fun to watch so far

Couple other random things from last night's game:
- Thought it was a bit bogus that Davis got a flagrant foul for hooking the other player, when the Oklahoma player was probably just as guilty and actually initiated the underhook on Davis. Either player could have let go, and it is physically much easier to pull your arm out of the underneath position. So for Davis to get a flagrant on top of the injury didn't seem right to me
- LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the flop warning against Reeves for falling down with minimal contact on his 3 pointer. They need to get flopping out of basketball at all levels. Unfortunately they missed another "flop" on Reeves where he scissor kicked his legs in front of him to draw a foul on another 3 and nearly ended up hurting himself

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - Viking_Guy - 11-26-2019

I think the improved ball movement is a brobdingnagian factor in the three-point percentage - a lot of the looks people are getting are REALLY good ones, because the defense is scrambling as the ball moves faster and faster.

You could see the inverse of that at points last night - when the ball stopped moving, and a single player decided they were going to make "their" move - Davis driving, Delaire or da Silva inside. That was when the scoring stopped - offensive fouls and turnovers engendered by the opponent having time to move their defense and double the post, or have a secondary defender waiting in the lane. Even the successful drives were often VERY quick moves off passes at the perimeter - before anyone could drop off another man into the paint.

But this men's team does have to count as a very pleasant surprise. And I'm not sure, given what I just argued above, that KZ would've helped it flourish - he did have a tendency to try to take over the offense.

VG

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - SamuelMcF - 11-26-2019

(11-26-2019, 04:23 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: I think the improved ball movement is a of immense proportions factor in the three-point percentage - a lot of the looks people are getting are REALLY good ones, because the defense is scrambling as the ball moves faster and faster.

You could see the inverse of that at points last night - when the ball stopped moving, and a single player decided they were going to make "their" move - Davis driving, Delaire or da Silva inside. That was when the scoring stopped - offensive fouls and turnovers engendered by the opponent having time to move their defense and double the post, or have a secondary defender waiting in the lane. Even the successful drives were often VERY quick moves off passes at the perimeter - before anyone could drop off another man into the paint.

But this men's team does have to count as a very pleasant surprise. And I'm not sure, given what I just argued above, that KZ would've helped it flourish - he did have a tendency to try to take over the offense.

VG

Great points here VG.

Though we might write Fitzmorris off, I think his biggest weakness (and something to improve on) is the "deciding to make his move" that you're alluding to. He's too slow and obvious when doing so, and defenders at this level pounce on it quickly. The college game will have to slow down for him yet. I saw some similarities with Kisunas in his limited action last year, FWIW...but I think Kisunas' international experience helped it slow down much quicker.

Re: KZ, I tend to agree with you. He wanted the rock and pretty often went iso - averaged 2 assists and 3 TOs per game. Talented player and going iso frequently worked out for him, but not exactly a fit with the style of offense coach Haase is implementing now.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - CompSci87 - 11-26-2019

About starting a small lineup: Kisunas started the first couple (?) of games, but the small lineup was clearly better. It gets the five best players on the floor. Kisunas has his moments, but sometimes is a bit slow reacting. Da Silva may be overmatched on defense against a good true center, but on the other hand he can shoot all the way out to 3-point range, which can help a lot on the offensive end.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - JJJ - 12-13-2019

Just saw this on gostanford.com from yesterday. Spencer Jones goes home.

https://youtu.be/V9oyGCPGcWQ

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - Brickcity - 12-13-2019

Gotta love this kid. Obviously, extremely bright, mature and a hell of a ballplayer. His upside is crazy high.

RE: MBB: vs Oklahoma - martyup - 12-13-2019

Fantastic young man.