WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - Printable Version

WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - mbdude - 12-28-2019

5tos in 5 in 3 minutes?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - 2006alum - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 03:40 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:34 AM)martyup Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:26 AM)2006alum Wrote: If this - playing a 4-7 UC Davis team at home after a week off, and with almost a week to go before our next game against 7-5 WSU at home - is a trap game, we had no business being in contention for #1 team in the country. Particularly coming off an upset loss at Texas in which many of our players underperformed their abilities, this shouldn't be a trap game, this should be a "prove your starter-worthiness" game where starters and bench alike should be showing 110% effort (so to speak).

Those woofing gods...

BC

Hah - fair, though technically there was no woofing. Our players SHOULD be giving 110%, and they definitely are not. And right now we look like a team that has absolutely no business being considered among the top in the country. Chunks of the first half reminded me of the season after Bonnie and Orrange graduated and we had games where we scored under 40 points and would go long stretches without one made basket. I don't think we got the ball through the hoop from 2 minutes left in the first quarter until 6 minutes into the second...

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - TheFarm07 - 12-28-2019

Wow, our offense is really struggling...3 second violations...intercepted passes...offensive charges...we are really shooting ourselves in the foot.

Where is the offense that scored 80-90 points the first third of the season? We'll be lucky to break 60 at this rate

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - BostonCard - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 04:07 PM)2006alum Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 03:40 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:34 AM)martyup Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:26 AM)2006alum Wrote: If this - playing a 4-7 UC Davis team at home after a week off, and with almost a week to go before our next game against 7-5 WSU at home - is a trap game, we had no business being in contention for #1 team in the country. Particularly coming off an upset loss at Texas in which many of our players underperformed their abilities, this shouldn't be a trap game, this should be a "prove your starter-worthiness" game where starters and bench alike should be showing 110% effort (so to speak).

Those woofing gods...

BC

Hah - fair, though technically there was no woofing. Our players SHOULD be giving 110%, and they definitely are not. And right now we look like a team that has absolutely no business being considered among the top in the country. Chunks of the first half reminded me of the season after Bonnie and Orrange graduated and we had games where we scored under 40 points and would go long stretches without one made basket. I don't think we got the ball through the hoop from 2 minutes left in the first quarter until 6 minutes into the second...

That was directed at Marty, who sarcastically called this a trap game (hence me quoting his just kidding post).

BC

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - TheFarm07 - 12-28-2019

We win 67-55 but after watching the last couple minutes of the first half and then the entire second half, my chief takeaway is that the team has regressed offensively.

Our defense was not terrible (though the Aggies shooting 10/20 from long range was not good), but giving up 55 is certainly respectable.

It's our offense that has me most concerned. There was at least half a dozen possessions in the second half where we did not even get a shot attempt off because of a self-imposed miscue, whether it's Haley Jones dribbling through traffic after getting a rebound, the ball passing through the hands of Lexie Jones or the three second violations from Fran, we are not even allowing ourselves the opportunity to shoot the ball.

Another thought, no sign of Prechtel?? What's going on here?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - BobK - 12-28-2019

Pretchel played early. Tara went small if Jones with 11 rebounds is small, with Wilson

We didn’t rebound well which ever big or bigs was in.

Well a win is a win even a miserable one

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - 2006alum - 12-28-2019

Well, we survived and advanced. UCD running the same offense as us (and in fact teaching it to Tara) definitely helps explain why they were tracking us so well on defense - I was very impressed with their defense, as we probably only got about 3 or 4 clean backdoor cuts the entire part of the game I watched. Tara seemed to have us start taking jumpers early in the 4th and that seemed to help keep them honest on defense, which in turn opened up the floor.

I also felt like we rebounded much better in the second half, especially Jones, who seemed to be getting every other rebound for us. Indeed, she definitely had a landmark freshman game, stats line wise: 21 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal. What I like so much about her game is she can Plan A the Princeton but also Plan B the one-on-one.

I'm starting to wonder if something is more systematically off with Kiana Williams. She has had flashes of her old self this season, but for the most part, she's had a rough shooting stretch that began this spring, continued into the Pan-Am this summer, and has largely plagued her this fall. Coming into this game, if you can believe it, she had the third worst shooting percentage on the entire team, ahead of only Lacie Hull and Anna Wilson...

...and relatedly, I feel like one problem we have this year is that some of our best offensive options like Jump, Belibi, and Prechtel, are not strong defenders, and our best defenders, like Wilson and Lacie Hull, are not especially prolific on the offensive end. That means we're either giving up something on offense or on defense with any given set, because with Carrington out, our best dual purpose players are Lexie Hull, Jones, and Williams (and sorta Nadia Fingall), and with Williams in a shooting funk, we're basically either giving up something on offense, or else on defense.

I love our frosh, but unless the others come along on defense quickly or Carrington comes back, we're going to have a hard time keeping up those 80+ point games we had at the start of the season...

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - martyup - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 04:30 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 04:07 PM)2006alum Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 03:40 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:34 AM)martyup Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:26 AM)2006alum Wrote: If this - playing a 4-7 UC Davis team at home after a week off, and with almost a week to go before our next game against 7-5 WSU at home - is a trap game, we had no business being in contention for #1 team in the country. Particularly coming off an upset loss at Texas in which many of our players underperformed their abilities, this shouldn't be a trap game, this should be a "prove your starter-worthiness" game where starters and bench alike should be showing 110% effort (so to speak).

Those woofing gods...

BC

Hah - fair, though technically there was no woofing. Our players SHOULD be giving 110%, and they definitely are not. And right now we look like a team that has absolutely no business being considered among the top in the country. Chunks of the first half reminded me of the season after Bonnie and Orrange graduated and we had games where we scored under 40 points and would go long stretches without one made basket. I don't think we got the ball through the hoop from 2 minutes left in the first quarter until 6 minutes into the second...

That was directed at Marty, who sarcastically called this a trap game (hence me quoting his just kidding post).

BC

Ah, but humor and sarcasm do not violate Oliver's Woofing Theorem. Stating a false fear of an opponent falls well outside Oliver's definition of woofing.

That said, and all kidding aside, it was a classic trap game. I never expected our team would struggle in this one, but the timing of this game (between Christmas and New Years), the low expectations from the opponent, and the relative unimportance of this game hit all of the criteria for a trap game. Glad we escaped the trap with a win.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - chimera - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 05:05 PM)2006alum Wrote: Well, we survived and advanced. UCD running the same offense as us (and in fact teaching it to Tara) definitely helps explain why they were tracking us so well on defense - I was very impressed with their defense, as we probably only got about 3 or 4 clean backdoor cuts the entire part of the game I watched. Tara seemed to have us start taking jumpers early in the 4th and that seemed to help keep them honest on defense, which in turn opened up the floor.

I also felt like we rebounded much better in the second half, especially Jones, who seemed to be getting every other rebound for us. Indeed, she definitely had a landmark freshman game, stats line wise: 21 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal. What I like so much about her game is she can Plan A the Princeton but also Plan B the one-on-one.

I'm starting to wonder if something is more systematically off with Kiana Williams. She has had flashes of her old self this season, but for the most part, she's had a rough shooting stretch that began this spring, continued into the Pan-Am this summer, and has largely plagued her this fall. Coming into this game, if you can believe it, she had the third worst shooting percentage on the entire team, ahead of only Lacie Hull and Anna Wilson...

...and relatedly, I feel like one problem we have this year is that some of our best offensive options like Jump, Belibi, and Prechtel, are not strong defenders, and our best defenders, like Wilson and Lacie Hull, are not especially prolific on the offensive end. That means we're either giving up something on offense or on defense with any given set, because with Carrington out, our best dual purpose players are Lexie Hull, Jones, and Williams (and sorta Nadia Fingall), and with Williams in a shooting funk, we're basically either giving up something on offense, or else on defense.

I love our frosh, but unless the others come along on defense quickly or Carrington comes back, we're going to have a hard time keeping up those 80+ point games we had at the start of the season...

I share your concerns about the team with Carrington out and Williams in an extended offensive slump. Those two are supposed to be out key guards, our go-to players on the perimeter. When Williams has a game like today, not making a lot of obvious mistakes but also not really imposing herself on the game at all, it will be hard to win. I don't know what is going on with Kiana. I love her game but lately she has been passing up open threes, and generally not trying to get her shot going. Maybe that's a function of the slump getting to her mentally, which would be understandable. If that doesn't turn around, the ceiling for the team is much lower. We need Carrington back for sure. We need Williams "back" as well.

I am very impressed with Fingall, playing well and hard after her ACL tear. She's been a warrior. Lexie and Lacie are playing hard and generally well too. Our frosh are all doing really, really well, but I don't think we can lean on them this much this early and expect to beat top teams like we will face in conference.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - 81alum - 12-28-2019

My write-up done at the top. Complete with all the annoying extra spaces that seem to get inserted.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - CompSci87 - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 08:24 PM)81alum Wrote: My write-up done at the top. Complete with all the annoying extra spaces that seem to get inserted.

Thanks! I've edited out the extra spaces for you. What device/browser were you posting from?

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - martyup - 12-28-2019

(12-27-2019, 09:34 AM)mbdude Wrote: With only 1, maybe 2 days of practice better be just a warm up game. I always wonder how the girls (especially those out of California) fare getting back from Christmas break with all the travel, and associated problems

Very prophetic.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - 81alum - 12-28-2019

(12-28-2019, 09:53 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 08:24 PM)81alum Wrote: My write-up done at the top. Complete with all the annoying extra spaces that seem to get inserted.

Thanks! I've edited out the extra spaces for you. What device/browser were you posting from?

Thanks Tim! I use Mozilla. It is the darndest thing. I went in and edited out all the spaces, and when I saved it, somehow it inserted more! Someone else was complaining about this a few weeks ago.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - CompSci87 - 12-29-2019

(12-28-2019, 11:07 PM)81alum Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 09:53 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 08:24 PM)81alum Wrote: My write-up done at the top. Complete with all the annoying extra spaces that seem to get inserted.

Thanks! I've edited out the extra spaces for you. What device/browser were you posting from?
Thanks Tim! I use Mozilla. It is the darndest thing. I went in and edited out all the spaces, and when I saved it, somehow it inserted more! Someone else was complaining about this a few weeks ago.

Good to know, not that I'm likely to be able to do anything about it... I mostly use Chrome on my Android phone (and that's what I edited your post with), but sometimes Firefox on a Linux desktop.

RE: WBB: Stanford 67 UC Davis 55 - Baez87 - 12-29-2019

Watching the SWBB Team contend with the hot-shooting UCDavis squad last night was painful to watch. It was certainly not the easy one-sided practice game we expected. Instead, it was a test of wills and skills, and, hopefully, a lesson learned.
It remains to be seen whether this team is as good a team as we thought, whether it will be able to compete with a much improved Pac-12, whether the freshmen will be ready to play, whether the veterans will heal, or whether our 11-1 record is legit.
I suspect that we will do okay.
What happened in the Davis game wasn't really too different from what happened in the CalBaptist game. We ran into a hot-shooting, motivated group of small guards that had everything to gain and nothing to lose. In both cases, we seemed to start the game in a defensive limbo, i.e. not knowing whether to guard the three point shot or hold back for the drive. That ambivalence didn’t get the job done against a team that was shooting lights-out from distance—58% is phenomenal! It would be rare indeed, if a team shot that well even without anyone guarding them!
I saw the overtime game against the even shorter CalBaptist squad in Victoria. After the overtime victory, I worried that we were not going to be able to match up against a much taller and stronger Syracuse or taller and faster Mississippi State. Well, we did!
I’m not ready to make a dire pronouncement on our team this time. We learned, we adjusted, we came through. It probably won’t be the last time we struggle either. It doesn’t matter who we play, our team still must suit-up each time and play the game.
Geno Auriemma has described his worse fear in encountering a lower-ranked team that gets up for the big game, rallies and takes down Goliath, then celebrates on their home floor. That happens in basketball, and it might be why he quit playing us.
A team must forget about the recent game, learn from their mistakes, practice hard, and get ready to play their next opponent. I think that is exactly what this young team has to do! Yes, they are young, but they are resilient.
And we fans need to believe in them and be resilient, too!

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - 81alum - 12-29-2019

(12-28-2019, 05:05 PM)2006alum Wrote: I also felt like we rebounded much better in the second half, especially Jones, who seemed to be getting every other rebound for us. Indeed, she definitely had a landmark freshman game, stats line wise: 21 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks, and 1 steal. What I like so much about her game is she can Plan A the Princeton but also Plan B the one-on-one.

We did--you got this exactly right. After halftime, we sharply reversed our poor rebounding and out rebounded Davis the rest of the way. In the first half, we were outrebounded 21-14. We gave Davis 8 O-boards and only got 3 of our own. In the second half, we outrebounded Davis 21-12, a complete reversal. We had 7 O-boards to their 4.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - 81alum - 12-29-2019

(12-28-2019, 05:05 PM)2006alum Wrote: I'm starting to wonder if something is more systematically off with Kiana Williams. She has had flashes of her old self this season, but for the most part, she's had a rough shooting stretch that began this spring, continued into the Pan-Am this summer, and has largely plagued her this fall. Coming into this game, if you can believe it, she had the third worst shooting percentage on the entire team, ahead of only Lacie Hull and Anna Wilson...

And I agree here as well. The combination of Williams being in a slump and Carrington being off the floor has hurt us badly. We are not going to beat too many elite teams if that continues--no matter how good Jones turns out to be (and she is good--but we need her to replace Alanna Smith's production--not Williams's and Carrington's.)

I am concerned not only about Williams' shooting slump--she seems to be having an assist slump as well. This year she is averaging 3.6 assists per game, last year she averaged 4.7--and last year's stats include a lot of very tough games. Here are her assists recently:
Davis: 1
Texas: 1
Tennessee: 7
Ohio State: 2
Mississippi State: 1
Syracuse: 7
Cal Baptist: 2

Now what do you notice about this pattern? The two games when she had 7 assists are the two games when we shot lights-out from three. The other games when she had only 1 or 2 assists are games in which we struggled with three point shooting. Williams gets almost all her assists now from three point shots. Maybe that is appropriate for the Princeton, since the interior feeds are usually provided from the high post where she doesn't play and where she lacks the height to play--but this is different from last year.

Harder to judge her defense, but she was on the floor when teams like Cal Baptist and Davis started shooting lights-out from the perimeter.

Something definitely seems not right for Williams.

Now, as for Davis being particularly well prepared to defend the Princeton--they were. But they were last year when we squashed them, twice. Texas and Davis have shown how to sharply curtail the back door cuts. The entire Pac 12 has seen us run the Princeton for a while now, and they all will be watching the film. I think we need to expect every team to be doing what Texas and Davis did to disrupt us--until we start hitting our threes again. In a way, it is the same problem we have had playing against the zone--although these defenses are not zones. I don't think the back door cuts work until we force the opposing defenses to space out, and having multiple players hitting treys accomplishes that. It worked pretty well for Davis.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - chimera - 12-29-2019

(12-29-2019, 08:13 AM)81alum Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 05:05 PM)2006alum Wrote: I'm starting to wonder if something is more systematically off with Kiana Williams. She has had flashes of her old self this season, but for the most part, she's had a rough shooting stretch that began this spring, continued into the Pan-Am this summer, and has largely plagued her this fall. Coming into this game, if you can believe it, she had the third worst shooting percentage on the entire team, ahead of only Lacie Hull and Anna Wilson...
And I agree here as well. The combination of Williams being in a slump and Carrington being off the floor has hurt us badly. We are not going to beat too many elite teams if that continues--no matter how good Jones turns out to be (and she is good--but we need her to replace Alanna Smith's production--not Williams's and Carrington's.)

I am concerned not only about Williams' shooting slump--she seems to be having an assist slump as well. This year she is averaging 3.6 assists per game, last year she averaged 4.7--and last year's stats include a lot of very tough games. Here are her assists recently:
Davis: 1
Texas: 1
Tennessee: 7
Ohio State: 2
Mississippi State: 1
Syracuse: 7
Cal Baptist: 2

Now what do you notice about this pattern? The two games when she had 7 assists are the two games when we shot lights-out from three. The other games when she had only 1 or 2 assists are games in which we struggled with three point shooting. Williams gets almost all her assists now from three point shots. Maybe that is appropriate for the Princeton, since the interior feeds are usually provided from the high post where she doesn't play and where she lacks the height to play--but this is different from last year.

Harder to judge her defense, but she was on the floor when teams like Cal Baptist and Davis started shooting lights-out from the perimeter.

Something definitely seems not right for Williams.

Now, as for Davis being particularly well prepared to defend the Princeton--they were. But they were last year when we squashed them, twice. Texas and Davis have shown how to sharply curtail the back door cuts. The entire Pac 12 has seen us run the Princeton for a while now, and they all will be watching the film. I think we need to expect every team to be doing what Texas and Davis did to disrupt us--until we start hitting our threes again. In a way, it is the same problem we have had playing against the zone--although these defenses are not zones. I don't think the back door cuts work until we force the opposing defenses to space out, and having multiple players hitting treys accomplishes that. It worked pretty well for Davis.

During the game I thought we did not have enough three point shooting out there too often. Williams seems hesitant to take her threes now. Jones doesn't take them often and they sagged off her. Lexie and Lacie will shoot, but Lexie was sitting with foul trouble a lot during the second half. Jump was in for a bit but fouled a couple of times and did not stay out there very long. Wilson hasn't shot threes well or taken many for the past couple of seasons. Part of the reason we were struggling was not hitting threes, but we weren't taking many, and many of those taken were not in rhythm. Player gets ball, is open but is not thinking shoot, and the opportunity goes, or they shoot after a brief hesitation, but not as good a shot that way as if right in rhythm. Hard to make threes when the offense doesn't get the shooters open and when it does, some of them are not ready to let fly.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - 81alum - 12-29-2019

(12-29-2019, 09:35 AM)chimera Wrote: During the game I thought we did not have enough three point shooting out there too often. Williams seems hesitant to take her threes now. Jones doesn't take them often and they sagged off her. Lexie and Lacie will shoot, but Lexie was sitting with foul trouble a lot during the second half. Jump was in for a bit but fouled a couple of times and did not stay out there very long. Wilson hasn't shot threes well or taken many for the past couple of seasons. Part of the reason we were struggling was not hitting threes, but we weren't taking many, and many of those taken were not in rhythm. Player gets ball, is open but is not thinking shoot, and the opportunity goes, or they shoot after a brief hesitation, but not as good a shot that way as if right in rhythm. Hard to make threes when the offense doesn't get the shooters open and when it does, some of them are not ready to let fly.

Agreed. Two players yesterday who seemed quite willing to shoot the three when they were open with no hesitation were Prechtel and Wilson. Prechtel was 0/1 in her 2 minutes of play, and Wilson was 0/2 in her 27 minutes. Jump was pretty well covered and was 0/1. I think teams know to cover her now, so she is sometimes useful just as a decoy. Williams passed up a few open threes after going 0/1. She was definitely hesitant to shoot. Lacie and Lexie did not seem hesitant to me, and they were collectively 4/7. Haley is not yet a great three point shooter and I did see her hesitate. But they sag off of her--they are more worried about her driving to the basket. She was 0/1.

While we are on Haley Jones's shooting, I wonder if others have any reaction to her flat, non arcing shot? She shoots the ball so flat that it often hits the back rim and rattles, sometimes popping out of the basket. She can be deadly accurate, but couldn't she be just as accurate and put a little arc under the ball? As good as she is, a lot of her misses go part way down and then back up and out. If every Haley shot that went "in and out" had actually gone "in," I imagine she would be shooting 74% instead of her already outstanding 54%.

RE: WBB: Stanford vs. UC Davis Saturday 2pm - qwerty49 - 12-29-2019

(12-29-2019, 08:13 AM)81alum Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 05:05 PM)2006alum Wrote: I'm starting to wonder if something is more systematically off with Kiana Williams. She has had flashes of her old self this season, but for the most part, she's had a rough shooting stretch that began this spring, continued into the Pan-Am this summer, and has largely plagued her this fall. Coming into this game, if you can believe it, she had the third worst shooting percentage on the entire team, ahead of only Lacie Hull and Anna Wilson...
And I agree here as well. The combination of Williams being in a slump and Carrington being off the floor has hurt us badly. We are not going to beat too many elite teams if that continues--no matter how good Jones turns out to be (and she is good--but we need her to replace Alanna Smith's production--not Williams's and Carrington's.)

I am concerned not only about Williams' shooting slump--she seems to be having an assist slump as well. This year she is averaging 3.6 assists per game, last year she averaged 4.7--and last year's stats include a lot of very tough games. Here are her assists recently:
Davis: 1
Texas: 1
Tennessee: 7
Ohio State: 2
Mississippi State: 1
Syracuse: 7
Cal Baptist: 2

Now what do you notice about this pattern? The two games when she had 7 assists are the two games when we shot lights-out from three. The other games when she had only 1 or 2 assists are games in which we struggled with three point shooting. Williams gets almost all her assists now from three point shots. Maybe that is appropriate for the Princeton, since the interior feeds are usually provided from the high post where she doesn't play and where she lacks the height to play--but this is different from last year.

Harder to judge her defense, but she was on the floor when teams like Cal Baptist and Davis started shooting lights-out from the perimeter.

Something definitely seems not right for Williams.

Now, as for Davis being particularly well prepared to defend the Princeton--they were. But they were last year when we squashed them, twice. Texas and Davis have shown how to sharply curtail the back door cuts. The entire Pac 12 has seen us run the Princeton for a while now, and they all will be watching the film. I think we need to expect every team to be doing what Texas and Davis did to disrupt us--until we start hitting our threes again. In a way, it is the same problem we have had playing against the zone--although these defenses are not zones. I don't think the back door cuts work until we force the opposing defenses to space out, and having multiple players hitting treys accomplishes that. It worked pretty well for Davis.

IMHO these issues, and chimera's concerns about 3-pt shooting, will make the difference between an effort to get to the Sweet Sixteen and a Final Four run, regardless of Carrington and Dodson's recovery schedule.

PG is now a concern when we can't take it for granted that Williams will be the Williams of old. A big part of her game is being the clutch go-to shooter in the 2nd half, and as offensively challenged as we seem to be, we sure need that.

Perhaps those who watch closely can comment on how Jump (and Moschkau, for that matter) are progressing on defense. Jump gets very little PT despite TVD touting her as one of the best shooters we've had.